I got 93 H22 turbo and I keep blowing my head gasket this happen 3 times now. It is ok on low boost (9 psi), but when I turn the boost up to 17 psi, it keeps blowing the head gasket. Please help? I spent a lot of money and I didn't even enjoy it yet.

 

is it tuned for 17 psi?

 

It sounds like your head could be lifting under boost. What head studs are you using? If you reused your stock ones, that's why. If you are using arp's you need to retorque them after about 500-1000 miles. Another thing you need to do is have the deck of the head and block checked for warpage that could have occurred when the headgasket gave. More than likely though your head is lifting under boost.

 

yes it is tuned for 17psi, and I got Hondata engine management. The first time it did it on dyno after it was tuned at the last run.


Modified by 93H22Turbo at 8:22 PM 1/9/2005

 

I used APR head studs. Yes I did re-torque them after 1000miles. I did resurface the head and block because it was warped. Now it still did it again. I got Koyo radiator with stock caps, and I found out on the line it has NO presser. Is that why I start blowing head gaskets? This is how it looks.

 

Three head gaskets? I changed one, and that was hell.


Temperature gauge at normal?

You did not say whether it was overheating or not... but, if there is no pressure in your coolant line, that could mean that your thermostat is not opening, meaning coolant is not being cooled through the radiator, thus, engine overheating. But if your head is lifting, overheating could accelerate head gasket leaks. But head-lift is what it seems to be, especially since (I'm assuming) your gaskets are busting within a very short time span.

Head gasket job on 4th gen prelude =


Good luck though... Your setup looks incredible.


Oh... sorry, off topic but... What intercooler are you using? I've been looking for one that will fit my stock bumper.


Modified by Akhany at 12:12 AM 1/10/2005

 

Yes this is my three time changing my head gasket. The temperature is at normal for 7psi, after 17psi the temperature goes up 1 bar, the coolant start leaking.

The intercooler came out of H22 Stage 3 Drag turbo kit I bought, it fit perfect on 93 Prelude, but you might need to trim it a little.

 

If it's doing it at 17psi I have to say the head is lifting. Here is one reason why this could be happening.

If the motor was sleeved, usually a few thou is removed from the block to 'deck' it true. Some shops do 5 thou some do 10. If the head has been worked it's a good possibility that it has also been decked a few thou. Now... if you are using stock unaltered dowel pins what could happen is that since you lost height in the head and block the dowel pin is not allowing the head to sit true on the block or keeping it from sealing 100% (because it's too high). So your next time around order new OEM dowel pins and have 20-30 thou removed from them (I usually take 10 thou extra off what has already been removed). In extreme cases, if too long of a dowel pin is used it can place a concentrated stress which can lead to the movement/distortment of sleeves. That's a whole different story though. I'll try to keep this simple.

Do you have a picture of the headgasket that blew by any chance? You are sure you had a 110% straight straightedge when you checked the entire head and block? Did it blow in the same location all 3 times? Is there anyway you can send me your .bin file that Ed tuned your car with?

You do realize that the MSBC of the H series is around 350-400whp. After reaching this power you'll start to misfire and possibly have slight detonation. Ed never realized this when he did my H series many years ago. He simply blamed it on the engine and ignition. After switching to race gas it cleared the problem right up. So it could be very possible that you are detonating due to peaking out your MSBC and with too much timing is allowing high peak cylinder pressures thus allowing your headgasket to fail. You also realize when a car is tuned on a dyno-jet that it will not be in the same conditions all the time thus throwing off the tune on the street. Stock prelude ignition systems also tend to be a little weaker so it's good to replace them after around 350whp. If you have removed material from the head/block then you will be running a higher compression which means you'll run a bit richer by theory (if using a previous tune) but ignition timing may need to be knocked back down a tad bit. Again it depends on how badly warped the head/block were and how much material was removed.

 

 

Impressive Precisionh23!!!

 

MSBC?

 

The MSBC is also know as the Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC). BSFC is the ratio of the engine fuel consumption to the engine power output (as measured at the flywheel). BSFC has units of grams of fuel per kilowatt-hour (g/kWh) or pounds mass of fuel per brake horsepower-hour (lb/bhp-hr). BSFC is a measure of engine efficiency. MSBC is effected by such factors as combustion chamber design, combustion chamber material, spark plug placement, and a few other factors as well.

The H-series engines are less efficient than b-series. This means you need to run higher octane to sustain detonation.

Post up a picture of your dyno chart when you have a chance. I'd like to see the a/f's as well as the hp/torque curves under heavy load.

 

I have 93 Prelude H22 that I build for turbo, I got low compression stander size JE piston, Eagle rods, Crower turbo cams, Skunk2 valve spring, Skunk2 titanium retainer, Skunk2 cam gears, Skunk2 intake manifold, Stage 3 Drag turbo kits, Hondata engine system (S200), upgrade fuel pipe, 750cc injectors, AEM fuel rail, MSD ignition, NGK spark pluges (7 series) and Koyo radiator with Integra Flex dual fans.

I have head gasket problem, I had to replace my head gasket 3 times. My car first blow head gasket at the Dyno at the last run, it overheat and the coolant came out. After that I sent the head and block for warp at machine shop. After that it worked for 7 psi, but when I turn the boost to 17psi, it did it again. Again I sent the head and block for warp at machine shop (the same shop). Again it did it. This time a might sent the block and head to different shop and if it does it again I give up. The first head gasket was OEM, the second one is Cometic, the third one is OEM again, Is there another head gasket?

(OaksRacing) he say they use OEM head gasket on their H22 turbo making 788whp. When I dyno mine at 17psi, I made 364 whp and 290 torque. I want more hp but my exhaust manifold doesn't flow more then that.

 

Don't give up. There's a lot of work & money already put into this. Surely you will find a solution to the problem if just more time is put in.


It seems to me that it is head lift, judging by how much the gasket is soaked up in coolant---That's a lot of coolant. Just a small portion of my gasket (when I fixed my leak) was in contact with coolant.


All yah gotta do now is figure out how to stop this problem (assuming it IS the problem).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If it's doing it at 17psi I have to say the head is lifting. Here is one reason why this could be happening.

If the motor was sleeved, usually a few thou is removed from the block to 'deck' it true. Some shops do 5 thou some do 10. If the head has been worked it's a good possibility that it has also been decked a few thou. Now... if you are using stock unaltered dowel pins what could happen is that since you lost height in the head and block the dowel pin is not allowing the head to sit true on the block or keeping it from sealing 100% (because it's too high). So your next time around order new OEM dowel pins and have 20-30 thou removed from them (I usually take 10 thou extra off what has already been removed). In extreme cases, if too long of a dowel pin is used it can place a concentrated stress which can lead to the movement/distortment of sleeves. That's a whole different story though. I'll try to keep this simple.

Do you have a picture of the headgasket that blew by any chance? You are sure you had a 110% straight straightedge when you checked the entire head and block? Did it blow in the same location all 3 times? Is there anyway you can send me your .bin file that Ed tuned your car with?

You do realize that the MSBC of the H series is around 350-400whp. After reaching this power you'll start to misfire and possibly have slight detonation. Ed never realized this when he did my H series many years ago. He simply blamed it on the engine and ignition. After switching to race gas it cleared the problem right up. So it could be very possible that you are detonating due to peaking out your MSBC and with too much timing is allowing high peak cylinder pressures thus allowing your headgasket to fail. You also realize when a car is tuned on a dyno-jet that it will not be in the same conditions all the time thus throwing off the tune on the street. Stock prelude ignition systems also tend to be a little weaker so it's good to replace them after around 350whp. If you have removed material from the head/block then you will be running a higher compression which means you'll run a bit richer by theory (if using a previous tune) but ignition timing may need to be knocked back down a tad bit. Again it depends on how badly warped the head/block were and how much material was removed.</TD></TR></TABLE>


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The MSBC is also know as the Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC). BSFC is the ratio of the engine fuel consumption to the engine power output (as measured at the flywheel). BSFC has units of grams of fuel per kilowatt-hour (g/kWh) or pounds mass of fuel per brake horsepower-hour (lb/bhp-hr). BSFC is a measure of engine efficiency. MSBC is effected by such factors as combustion chamber design, combustion chamber material, spark plug placement, and a few other factors as well.

The H-series engines are less efficient than b-series. This means you need to run higher octane to sustain detonation.

Post up a picture of your dyno chart when you have a chance. I'd like to see the a/f's as well as the hp/torque curves under heavy load.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Reading both of these replys by Precision makes me rethink going turbo. I need to read up alot more.

PrecisionH23a

 

who assembled this motor from scratch? i am wondering about how much material has been taken off of the head and blocks to macke them true..

there could be a couple of things.. like piston to head clearence , the dowel pins are too long now from all of the material that was taken form the head and block. also are you sure the pistons your using are low compresion? with a built bottom end and to high peak cylinder presure (either from high compression pistons or to much ignition timing or combination of both) something has to give.

if you could get a hold of you s200 hondata map to send to me or anthony im sure we would like to have a look.

also are you sure you went thru the correct sequence of using the arp head studs?

 

If you want, drop the car off with me. I'll fix it and have it retuned safely and properly.

 

PrecisionH23a are you local? I live in Atlanta, GA. If you are how much you charge for checking the head and block for wrapage?

I don't think the OEM head gasket is the problem on my car, I think it is the head and block being wrapped. That is why I am going to take both to different machine shop. Thanks guys for your helps and feed-backs, I learn a lot.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Is there anyway you can send me your .bin file that Ed tuned your car with? </TD></TR></TABLE>

How did you know Ed tuned my car? yes I do have GM 3 bar map senser. I am not blaming anyone for what happened to my car, and he tuned my car right. I am impress with his work, Good work Ed. This is my Dyno sheet.

 

this may be a little off topic, but i'm sure that you're sfp mani can flow much more power than you have right now. i have one also, and i plan on using it once the engine is built as well. i'd like to make well over 400whp with it, and i'm sure that you can too.

 

has anyone checked out the Full-Race manifolds. ive heard they are really nice for alot of boost. just a suggestion.

 

I know Ed because I've been there many years ago before tuning was the craze these days. Even if your block/head is warped, you need to listen to what I said about your dowel pins. And when the engine is back up and running it needs a retune.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93H22Turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your low boost pull AF looks ok but on the high boost from 6500-7000 you are running way to lean by the way. It can be leaned out a good bit up top since it dips into the low 11's.

 

word... dont give up... u n i are on the same boat..... mine blew a week before xmas.... my temp gauge was Almost up to the top....n white smoke came out.... i also got a understanding that ur head might me wrap.... have it mill down a bit.. then arp head stud. n mine are tq. down to 95... hope this help...let us know how's it goin...

btw u might wanna change ur rad cap to higher pressure... my C&R is using 1.9 i dont think stock 1.1 will hold ****...

 

And perhaps if not already done, maybe a thermostat that opens up at lower temp. to keep that temp. gauge at optimal.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaxx4k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">then arp head stud. n mine are tq. down to 95... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you say bolt stretch? 79-81 ft*lbs max. 3 stage torque with moly lube: 28-56-78.