b20z swap into a crx questions
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From: east coast, usa
b20z swap into a crx questions
right now i have a d16z6 in my crx si, awaiting obd0-1 conversion with a p28 ecu..
ive been looking for more torque and have been thinking of either swapping a h22 or b20z sometime next year. im leaning towards the b20z cuz theres less custom work for mounts, tranny, and the crossmember.
here are my questions:
1) ive been searching here and seeing that most people use the LS intake manifold and ECU, but im thinking of using the ITR or skunk2 IM, and the p28 ECU, and use a non-vtec chip. is this possible, and has anyone tried either on their b20?
2) for the wiring harness, would all of the sensor connectors match up from my stock crx harness to the b20z, or do i need to find obd2 connectors to put on my stock harness?
3) i also read that the b20 usually runs lean with the LS ECU, and this problem can be solved either by an adjustable FPR or OBDII prelude injectors. what exactly does the adjustable FPR do? does it allow more/less fuel through the injectors as the ECU calls for more/less? so do you need both the adj FPR and the prelude injectors, or one or the other?
anyone with this swap already in their CRX, please feel free to leave comments on how it feels, how it drives, and any advice during the swap.
thanks~
ive been looking for more torque and have been thinking of either swapping a h22 or b20z sometime next year. im leaning towards the b20z cuz theres less custom work for mounts, tranny, and the crossmember.
here are my questions:
1) ive been searching here and seeing that most people use the LS intake manifold and ECU, but im thinking of using the ITR or skunk2 IM, and the p28 ECU, and use a non-vtec chip. is this possible, and has anyone tried either on their b20?
2) for the wiring harness, would all of the sensor connectors match up from my stock crx harness to the b20z, or do i need to find obd2 connectors to put on my stock harness?
3) i also read that the b20 usually runs lean with the LS ECU, and this problem can be solved either by an adjustable FPR or OBDII prelude injectors. what exactly does the adjustable FPR do? does it allow more/less fuel through the injectors as the ECU calls for more/less? so do you need both the adj FPR and the prelude injectors, or one or the other?
anyone with this swap already in their CRX, please feel free to leave comments on how it feels, how it drives, and any advice during the swap.
thanks~
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From: Ft. Hood
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (rasta420)
1) You have to use the LS Intake on the B20 head as the GSR/ITR intakes do not bolt on. The patterns are different and this extends to the Skunk2 Manifold. A P74/75 would be your best bet for ECU if you ran it in OBD-0 and if you are worrying about leaning it out you could always chip the ecu with a nifty little program like Uberdata and raise the fuel values. If you are dead set on using the VTEC manifolds, here is an article on fabricating a mounting system onto the LS/B20 head - http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=85
2) Most of the sensors will just connect, but it can't hurt to have an OBD-1/2 harness laying around to scavenge plugs from.
2) Most of the sensors will just connect, but it can't hurt to have an OBD-1/2 harness laying around to scavenge plugs from.
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Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (dr_latino999)
hmm...been doing some more reading on b20 swaps, and i feel like im not gonna have enough power. whats up with the CRV manifold, is it really restrictive or why isnt it used?
you think its more worth going with an H22 swap for the horsepower, or stay b20 which is cheaper but less powerful? and can anyone answer this question:
3) i also read that the b20 usually runs lean with the LS ECU, and this problem can be solved either by an adjustable FPR or OBDII prelude injectors. what exactly does the adjustable FPR do? does it allow more/less fuel through the injectors as the ECU calls for more/less? so do you need both the adj FPR and the prelude injectors, or one or the other?
you think its more worth going with an H22 swap for the horsepower, or stay b20 which is cheaper but less powerful? and can anyone answer this question:
3) i also read that the b20 usually runs lean with the LS ECU, and this problem can be solved either by an adjustable FPR or OBDII prelude injectors. what exactly does the adjustable FPR do? does it allow more/less fuel through the injectors as the ECU calls for more/less? so do you need both the adj FPR and the prelude injectors, or one or the other?
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From: phoenix, az
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (rasta420)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rasta420 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
3) i also read that the b20 usually runs lean with the LS ECU, and this problem can be solved either by an adjustable FPR or OBDII prelude injectors. what exactly does the adjustable FPR do? does it allow more/less fuel through the injectors as the ECU calls for more/less? so do you need both the adj FPR and the prelude injectors, or one or the other?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
3. A adjustable fpr is a way to increase fuel pressure. You should install a gage before you swap regualtors so you know what psi to set the new fpr. It will allow the injector to pass more fuel and will help correct lean condition. Get a vafc or hondata to fine tune it.
For the prelude injectors. They will help because they're more ccs.
For specifics https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=985667
People run both so... I'm using stock injectors with fuel pressure at 50 psi. Soon i'll get some 370cc injectors. Not sure how fuel pressure will change.
3) i also read that the b20 usually runs lean with the LS ECU, and this problem can be solved either by an adjustable FPR or OBDII prelude injectors. what exactly does the adjustable FPR do? does it allow more/less fuel through the injectors as the ECU calls for more/less? so do you need both the adj FPR and the prelude injectors, or one or the other?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
3. A adjustable fpr is a way to increase fuel pressure. You should install a gage before you swap regualtors so you know what psi to set the new fpr. It will allow the injector to pass more fuel and will help correct lean condition. Get a vafc or hondata to fine tune it.
For the prelude injectors. They will help because they're more ccs.
For specifics https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=985667
People run both so... I'm using stock injectors with fuel pressure at 50 psi. Soon i'll get some 370cc injectors. Not sure how fuel pressure will change.
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From: Mount Airy, N.C., USA
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (eda6)
Here ya go!!
I would highly recomend going with fpr and prelude injectors,
http://www.mountainracers.8m.c...4.jpg
http://www.mountainracers.8m.c...6.jpg
http://www.mountainracers.8m.c...8.jpg
http://www.mountainracers.8m.c...0.jpg
http://www.mountainracers.8m.c...4.jpg
http://www.mountainracers.8m.c...2.jpg
I would highly recomend going with fpr and prelude injectors,
http://www.mountainracers.8m.c...4.jpg
http://www.mountainracers.8m.c...6.jpg
http://www.mountainracers.8m.c...8.jpg
http://www.mountainracers.8m.c...0.jpg
http://www.mountainracers.8m.c...4.jpg
http://www.mountainracers.8m.c...2.jpg
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From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (rasta420)
1. You cannot use a VTEC intake manifold on a B20 head. You MUST use either an LS intake manifold or a Skunk2 intake manifold made for the LS. I have also seen people use the stock B20Z intake manifold and cap off the hole for the resonator box. Also keep in mind that if you do use a stock LS intame manifold, the 1994+ manifold is the one to use, as 1990-1993 manifolds have runers that are smaller than the B20 ports.
As for the ECU, the 1994-1995 P74 is the best one to use. The 1992-1993 PR4 is pretty much the same thing as the 1994-1995 P75. So this is not a downgrade. But a 1990-1991 PR4 is a downgrade. This ECU simplfies wiring but should be avoided. Also keep in mind that if you get a distributer with your B20Z, it will work with either the 1992-1993 PR4 but not the 1990-1991 PR4. So if you use a 1990-1991 PR4, you will have to get a 1990-1991 distributer. And the cost of a distributer will probably be at least as much as an adaptor harness (if you don't want to change the plugs yourself). As for VTEC ECUs, there is no advantage to using one unless you plan to add a VTEC head. So unless you plan to do so, stick with one of the non-VTEC ECUs.
3. The P75 will probably run the motor somewhat lean. But this can be corrected with an adjustable FPR. It could also be corrected by chipping the ECU or larger injectors. But the adjustable FPR is most economical (although maybe not best). Regardless, an adjustable FPR will probably be quite adequate, as the B20 is just an LS with more displacement. And the same increase in fuel delivery across the board is probably pretty close to what it wants.
As for the ECU, the 1994-1995 P74 is the best one to use. The 1992-1993 PR4 is pretty much the same thing as the 1994-1995 P75. So this is not a downgrade. But a 1990-1991 PR4 is a downgrade. This ECU simplfies wiring but should be avoided. Also keep in mind that if you get a distributer with your B20Z, it will work with either the 1992-1993 PR4 but not the 1990-1991 PR4. So if you use a 1990-1991 PR4, you will have to get a 1990-1991 distributer. And the cost of a distributer will probably be at least as much as an adaptor harness (if you don't want to change the plugs yourself). As for VTEC ECUs, there is no advantage to using one unless you plan to add a VTEC head. So unless you plan to do so, stick with one of the non-VTEC ECUs.
3. The P75 will probably run the motor somewhat lean. But this can be corrected with an adjustable FPR. It could also be corrected by chipping the ECU or larger injectors. But the adjustable FPR is most economical (although maybe not best). Regardless, an adjustable FPR will probably be quite adequate, as the B20 is just an LS with more displacement. And the same increase in fuel delivery across the board is probably pretty close to what it wants.
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From: Ft. Hood
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (StorminMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. You cannot use a VTEC intake manifold on a B20 head. You MUST use either an LS intake manifold or a Skunk2 intake manifold made for the LS. I have also seen people use the stock B20Z intake manifold and cap off the hole for the resonator box. Also keep in mind that if you do use a stock LS intame manifold, the 1994+ manifold is the one to use, as 1990-1993 manifolds have runers that are smaller than the B20 ports.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There's a nice article on retro-fitting an ITR IM onto a B18B here:
B18C5 Manifold Installation on B18B
There's a nice article on retro-fitting an ITR IM onto a B18B here:
B18C5 Manifold Installation on B18B
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (StorminMatt)
listen to StorminMatt....
I'f i wasn't so lazy i'd get more technical like i use to.. hehe
I think your making things harder than it really is. It's not that confusing.
intake...
yes get the skunk2 IM, you'll notice a decent difference once you get the redline up to about 7600-7800 with some 62404 or 62403 cams hehe
ecu.... just use any 92+LS ecu your stock 240cc injectors will be fine. Even with the stock b20 or LS oem fpr you won't feel it leaning out.
If anything (since you don't have any cams yet or upping the redline) At most you would need to get a B&M adjustable fpr & turn it up about 2psi. Don't forget the gauge as well.
simply put the fpr creates more pressure in the fuel rail. Therefor by doing so when the injectors open up more fuel is let in. Your stock 240cc injectors will be fine. Getting prelude injectors would be a waste of money(unless it was a cheap deal)
let me know if you have anymore questions.
I'f i wasn't so lazy i'd get more technical like i use to.. hehe
I think your making things harder than it really is. It's not that confusing.
intake...
yes get the skunk2 IM, you'll notice a decent difference once you get the redline up to about 7600-7800 with some 62404 or 62403 cams hehe
ecu.... just use any 92+LS ecu your stock 240cc injectors will be fine. Even with the stock b20 or LS oem fpr you won't feel it leaning out.
If anything (since you don't have any cams yet or upping the redline) At most you would need to get a B&M adjustable fpr & turn it up about 2psi. Don't forget the gauge as well.
simply put the fpr creates more pressure in the fuel rail. Therefor by doing so when the injectors open up more fuel is let in. Your stock 240cc injectors will be fine. Getting prelude injectors would be a waste of money(unless it was a cheap deal)
let me know if you have anymore questions.
Brrraaaap!
Joined: May 2002
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From: AZ
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (dr_latino999)
Im running the PR4 on my B20, it could definetly use a different map/tune, but as for running lean, Im running 38psi at idle and 43 @ wot (stock 240cc inj.) and I have a brand new 02 sensor and my plugs have always been tan or darker. I have never seen them anything close to a lean color. If you can, go obd1 and run the P75 ECU, it works a lot better with the B20 vs. the PR4. I also recomend getting the skunk2 IM. Its a nice upgrade and flows well compared to the stock LS ones. Good Luck
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From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (dr_latino999)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dr_latino999 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There's a nice article on retro-fitting an ITR IM onto a B18B here:
B18C5 Manifold Installation on B18B</TD></TR></TABLE>
You could do this. But why? The ITR manifold is going to cost you pretty much the same as the Skunk2. So why would you want to buy the ITR and go through all this fuss vs just buying the Skunk2? Unless maybe you already have the ITR manifold somewhere colecting dust. Doing this type of conversion was MUCH more popular in the days before the Skunk2 was available (as was welding a GSR flange to the ITR manifold to fit it on a GSR).
There's a nice article on retro-fitting an ITR IM onto a B18B here:
B18C5 Manifold Installation on B18B</TD></TR></TABLE>
You could do this. But why? The ITR manifold is going to cost you pretty much the same as the Skunk2. So why would you want to buy the ITR and go through all this fuss vs just buying the Skunk2? Unless maybe you already have the ITR manifold somewhere colecting dust. Doing this type of conversion was MUCH more popular in the days before the Skunk2 was available (as was welding a GSR flange to the ITR manifold to fit it on a GSR).
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Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (StorminMatt)
thanks for the replies everyone...i was getting kinda discouraged and started leaning towards a h22 swap. but maybe ill stay with the b20...
so i should just get a skunk2 manifold for the b20, p74/p75 ECU, and a FPR? if i eventually wanted to go with a VTEC head, would a full rebuild be in order?
so i should just get a skunk2 manifold for the b20, p74/p75 ECU, and a FPR? if i eventually wanted to go with a VTEC head, would a full rebuild be in order?
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Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (THE FUCATYPR HATCH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by THE FUCATYPR HATCH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yo bro,
I have both and I would definatly say b20z lots of torque and lots of fun..
88 crx hf w/99 b20z
94 cx hatch w/94 prelude type s turbo</TD></TR></TABLE>
do you have trouble keeping traction? and you would pick the b20z over a h22 turbO?? tight..
I have both and I would definatly say b20z lots of torque and lots of fun..
88 crx hf w/99 b20z
94 cx hatch w/94 prelude type s turbo</TD></TR></TABLE>
do you have trouble keeping traction? and you would pick the b20z over a h22 turbO?? tight..
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From: Mount Airy, N.C., USA
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (rasta420)
For the crx definatly!
Your car will have a tremendous amount of over steer if you do the h22a. With all of the b series motors you will have an enjoyable fun filled ride and with the b20z motor you will have a wide variety of parts that you can upgrade with. If any one tells you or flames me about an h22a car they know how much trouble they are and the expense of parts. And the difficulty of trying to work on one in a civic/crx engine bay. MORE MONEY AND TROUBLE THAN ITS WORTH!
Your car will have a tremendous amount of over steer if you do the h22a. With all of the b series motors you will have an enjoyable fun filled ride and with the b20z motor you will have a wide variety of parts that you can upgrade with. If any one tells you or flames me about an h22a car they know how much trouble they are and the expense of parts. And the difficulty of trying to work on one in a civic/crx engine bay. MORE MONEY AND TROUBLE THAN ITS WORTH!
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From: Ft. Hood
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (THE FUCATYPR HATCH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by THE FUCATYPR HATCH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For the crx definatly!
Your car will have a tremendous amount of over steer if you do the h22a. With all of the b series motors you will have an enjoyable fun filled ride and with the b20z motor you will have a wide variety of parts that you can upgrade with. If any one tells you or flames me about an h22a car they know how much trouble they are and the expense of parts. And the difficulty of trying to work on one in a civic/crx engine bay. MORE MONEY AND TROUBLE THAN ITS WORTH! </TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, no... The H-Series swap adds abouts about 60 more pounds to the front of the car and that is with the stock transmission. You have added a small child into your car, boo-hoo. Mate it with the B-Series transmission and you have killed the weight gain. Anyways, back to topic.
Your car will have a tremendous amount of over steer if you do the h22a. With all of the b series motors you will have an enjoyable fun filled ride and with the b20z motor you will have a wide variety of parts that you can upgrade with. If any one tells you or flames me about an h22a car they know how much trouble they are and the expense of parts. And the difficulty of trying to work on one in a civic/crx engine bay. MORE MONEY AND TROUBLE THAN ITS WORTH!
</TD></TR></TABLE>Actually, no... The H-Series swap adds abouts about 60 more pounds to the front of the car and that is with the stock transmission. You have added a small child into your car, boo-hoo. Mate it with the B-Series transmission and you have killed the weight gain. Anyways, back to topic.
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Mount Airy, N.C., USA
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (dr_latino999)
sorry your right , my b20 weighs about 430lbs and my h22 weighs in at over 600lbs
but your the guru. Stick to the single cams man and dont type anything unless you know something about it!
but your the guru. Stick to the single cams man and dont type anything unless you know something about it!
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From: Ft. Hood
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (THE FUCATYPR HATCH)
Hehe...no. As per, AllMotorCRX161, the gentleman nice enough to fabricate for our enjoyment the B-Series Transmission to H-Series adaptor plate -
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AllMotorCRX161 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This swap is a lot better then my last ITR, the torque is crazy. Im using all B series clutch, pressure plate and flywheel. The good thing with this swap is that you dont need to custom make anything. You dont have to have custom mounts or anything like that. The mounts are just B series EF mounts. I had a customer power coated the vavle cover and intake. This swap only weights 7 pounds heavier then a ITR swap. I have no problems with the front end at all. I took it out today and it is raining and has no problems what so ever. This car is not a daily driver since I have anothere car that I drive, but it is not a Track only car at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>
All your extra weight comes from the transmission, not the motor.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AllMotorCRX161 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This swap is a lot better then my last ITR, the torque is crazy. Im using all B series clutch, pressure plate and flywheel. The good thing with this swap is that you dont need to custom make anything. You dont have to have custom mounts or anything like that. The mounts are just B series EF mounts. I had a customer power coated the vavle cover and intake. This swap only weights 7 pounds heavier then a ITR swap. I have no problems with the front end at all. I took it out today and it is raining and has no problems what so ever. This car is not a daily driver since I have anothere car that I drive, but it is not a Track only car at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>
All your extra weight comes from the transmission, not the motor.
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From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (THE FUCATYPR HATCH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by THE FUCATYPR HATCH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry your right , my b20 weighs about 430lbs and my h22 weighs in at over 600lbs
but your the guru. Stick to the single cams man and dont type anything unless you know something about it!</TD></TR></TABLE>
430 pounds for a B20? NO WAY! That is close to the weight of an iron V8. I have personally picked up my B20 (with the help of my brother). And I know I wasn't holding 215 pounds! As for 'sticking with SOHC', the additional power possible with a B-series swap more than outweighs any weight difference between the two.
but your the guru. Stick to the single cams man and dont type anything unless you know something about it!</TD></TR></TABLE>
430 pounds for a B20? NO WAY! That is close to the weight of an iron V8. I have personally picked up my B20 (with the help of my brother). And I know I wasn't holding 215 pounds! As for 'sticking with SOHC', the additional power possible with a B-series swap more than outweighs any weight difference between the two.
Brrraaaap!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,950
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From: AZ
Re: b20z swap into a crx questions (sabertooth)
Yeah anything that AllMotorCRX161 says is a lie. I send him $270 for a x-member and he ripped me off and claims to have sent (2)... When I told him that I didnt get one... SCAMMERS SUCK!
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