I gotta EF9 Crx Si... right now pushing a d16a6 full bolt-ons..

I would like your guys opinions on what swap would be the most reiable for the daily driver... I want to either do a

N/A B16a w/ Y1 LSD Tranny also Ctr pistons and CTR or ITR Cam w/ valvetrain and chipped ecu or Vafc

or

I would like to do a stock B18A1 Turbo pushing maybe 7-10lbs of Boost on the Turboedit Management....

Also which swap do you think would be the most reasonably price

thanks guys...

 

EF9? Got pics?
Do you mean ED9?

 

a old b18 from a wrecked car with a turbo kits is gonna be less reliable than a properly rebuilt b16a(or any b series). If you dont mind on rebuilding the b18 later go with the turbo b18 route. It may last longer than you keep the car if the boost is controlled and car engine doesnt knock/detonate. Ive seen people run boost (8psi) on daily drivers for a year on junkyard d series even. Personaly If im gonna daily drive a car and really plan on keeping my car Id get a rebuilt b16a as is a stock b16a is still gonna make your modded d series look weak. As you get tired of the b16a speed you can upgrade to a turbo and be happy. If you get a built engine and want boost Id get lower compression pistons instead of the Type R pistons. Id run like 9.5 cr or 10.0 cr so you if you boost it you can throw more psi at it and make more hp.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eda6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">EF9? Got pics?
Do you mean ED9?</TD></TR></TABLE>


It has to be ED9 than

 

assuming a rebuilt engine will be a dependable engine is to assume the builder is fully competent. i assure you this is not always the case.

in a bone stock honda motor, you atleast know the bearings were sized correctly, the rings have been properly seated and the bore was honed with the correct hatch pattern to the right clearance.

most machine shops dont give a damn what honda specs say, and youll get what they give. prove them wrong without $800 worth of dialbore guages and micrometers

if the motor did NOT have an underdrive crank pulley, a lack of oil changes or an abusive teenage male owner, chances are youre safe with the LS or crv stocker for a hell of a lot less money.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike_belben@yahoo.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if the motor did NOT have an underdrive crank pulley</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why are you against underdrive pulleys? I have the ctr crankpulley on my b16. I haven'y had any issues.

 

is an EF9 a hatchback or it the right hand drive version of the crx?


Modified by redED9Si at 10:12 PM 11/11/2004

 

Mullet - if i was going to go turbo.... I would just go with the b18 it has the a better block for the turbo anyways.... I would just go N/A with a b16a with Type-R internals (valvetrain,cams, pistons) I don't want to have to go and buy forged low-comp pistons i'm trying to just keep it real with using oem honda parts, not really trying to make some aftermarket brand rich off my ***....

 

oh and you guys...what chip do you think would get good power out of? Skunk Spoon Mugen?? tell me whats up!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eda6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why are you against underdrive pulleys? I have the ctr crankpulley on my b16. I haven'y had any issues. </TD></TR></TABLE>

the crankshaft has continuous high frequency vibrations that require a large mass to dampen them. taking weight off the pulley end always results in rapid bearing and oil pump wear and sooner or later, failure. the journal closest to the pulley will look the worst. take weight off the flywheel, not the pulley.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redED9Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh and you guys...what chip do you think would get good power out of? Skunk Spoon Mugen?? tell me whats up!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

ecu tuning is about finding the right spark timing and injector pulse duration for your car to creep up on its peak power potential just short of detonation. chips are about a company making money by selling you something that screws up your vtec crossover setting, removes your rev limiter, dumps a ton of fuel and advances timing haphazardly and in a generic, one size fits every engine fashion.

stock honda engines were not designed to rev to 9k. removing the rev limiter and buzzing to the moon is a lot like an indy driver taking off his helmet and nailing the wall. the safety device was there for a very good reason.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redED9Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh and you guys...what chip do you think would get good power out of? Skunk Spoon Mugen?? tell me whats up!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you dont want to put up with the hassle of tuning your own car, then just buy a preburned ECU from one of H-T's members. I personally run a Kenji chipped P28 for my B18C w/ Skunk2 stg 1 cams, IM, 4-1 header, intake and exhaust.

Do a search for H-T username Kenji and ask him what types of prices he can give you. Since my setup is pretty common, he had several P28's ready to ship which were preburned for my mods. I'm not running a fully built NA motor or a hardcore turbo setup, so this ECU works fine for me. I paid $186 shipped for mine and I did not even have to provide a core P28.

EDIT: there are also other members on H-T that can burn ECU's for you, but I dont remmber their SN. But Kenji has a really good rep...just do a search for his name in thread subjects and you'll find a lot of threads about people using his ECU's. I believe that the Skunk2, Mugen and all those other ECU's are basically the same thing that the guys on here are providing. I think that most of the programs by Skunk2 and Mugen are OBD1 P28 and P72's which are rewriteable...those are the same ECU's the H-T ECU burners use. Except the ECU's provided by the guys on H-T are a little better suited to your mods, because you can tell them what you have and they can chose a program/ECU suited to those mods.

 

There are a few important questions you have not talked about yet.

1. How many miles do you travel each day, how many miles per week?

2. What is more important to you, reliability or performance?

3. How important is gas mileage to you?

are just some questions which are relevant that will change what is the best choice for you.

 

damn never knew they made CRX as EF-9... i only thought EF-8 were CRX....

well i would say just go b18 w/ boost IMO

 

Ef-8 is the dx and hf versions of the crx...and it is exactly ED8 my friend, but the ED9 is a 88-91 Crx Si version

 

well I usually drive a whole lot maybe a couple hundred miles every week.... reiable and performance....a little of both you know I want something quick, but I don't really want to worry about it breaking or blowing my motor on my way to work you know....gas mileage right now with the single it like 25-30 city and 40 freeway miles.... but I think with more power it will be a little better because I won't have to gas it as much

 

b18a1, for more torque and lower compression, which is better able to hold boost. Especially when you're going turbo, theres no replacement for displacement.

As for the rev limiter and chips, I'd stay stock. You never know when you accidentally won't shift, or miss a shift, and hit 9000 RPM. Friend did that in a DOHC ZC running 14 PSI, shot a rod straight out the oil pan, and melted the block when he hit 9000 on a chipped SI ECU - due to premature detonation.

As for the mileage, if you get it tuned just right, same guy up there with the 9000 RPM incident had a 14 PSI crx HF w/ SI motor, and was getting around 40 CITY mpg (something like 400 miles on an HF tank of gas) because of the backpressure... dont boost that high, that's a given, but it should still have similar effects. He had same chipped ECU up there, which may have helped with gas mileage, but also led to similar demise of this car...

I have no personal experience with the b16, but my experience with the stock b18 was a good one, had gutsy torque, and I'm not sure the b16 has that much.

edit: turbo is inherently unreliable IMO. 10 PSI I think is too much, even 7 might be pushing it. 5 is a good round number from what I've heard.



Modified by 31flavorscivic at 2:52 PM 11/12/2004

 

31-

I know a lot of peep out here that have run 10lbs of psi on a d-series motor and have had it running for longer than a year, and maybe a 100,000+ miles mot..but I do agree with you about 5 psi it is a every round number and you will see good performance out of it.

But if you use a decent engine management (Hondata) or even the poor man's hondata (Turbo Edit for OBD-0 and Uberdata for OBD-1)..you will have a little more success with boosting 7-10 psi, its really all about tuning the bitch out and **** like that.

 

i dont think more than 1 or 2% of cars that get boosted get better mileage. the mileage will stay the same at best but generally decrease. the turbocharger is an exhaust restriction that will always increase backpressure and will always increase reversion (unless you are talking some radical intake/exh manifolds, perfect ports and valve seat geometry, perfect combustion chambers and matching pistons.. nothing short of max effort engines, nothing you order out of a catalog.) when there is more pressure in the exhaust manifold than in the cylinder during the exhaust stroke, inert exhaust gases will expand into the cylinder because pressure flows from area of highest to lowest concentration. during overlap when the exhaust valve is just about seated and the intake valve is just cracking open, there will be more pressure in the chamber than the intake runner, and the burnt gasses will expand into the intake. this whole contamination process wreaks every kinda of havoc, from detonation, to lower peak cylinder pressure and temp (less torque) to worse mileage. you are getting less energy per the same quantity of fuel.

the "boost lag" that everyone feigns about is actually the pressure ratios between intake and exhaust waiting to change over. the car is laggy when there is more pressure in the exhaust manifold,, it snaps to life when the turbo is generating enough cfm for the intake tract pressure to overcome that in the cylinder during overlap. thats when the car wakes up.

also, turbo cars will always get bigger injectors, pumps, higher pressure, longer injector pulse duration, etc.

im telling you. mileage will suffer unless you are towing some trailor full of fat kids up hill all the time with your dx. then it might improve. if you are, buy a truck.

 

this is really why I asked if it would be better for me to go turbo b18 or N/A b16 I don't what to have to deal with all the turbo lag and detonation issue that come up with turbo... but as for the gas mileage thing you are talkin about... you will really only see turbo lag when you are using a big turbo.... something you would push out maybe 13-20 psi I'm not really trying to go huge with that if I was going to go with turbo...I just would get a turbo like a Tdo4 or t25 Dsm because it would almost spool instantly with a high revving motor... I have seen some good gas mileage honda with turbo you know...I mean unless you are really just smash on the throttle at all times you might lose some yes but you will get good power with a turbo on there so you won't really have to use the throttle as much that way...
but I guess it is just really how much tuning you do to it...

But anyways I think I might just go b16a to see how I like it if I don't like it I might just go for the b18a and maybe turbo later.... I could always sell or trade a b16a for a b18a...

 

the smaller the turbo the greater the restriction. the turbo will be spooled just off idle and choking the car to death with reversion by 5k. go with a t3 .60 or larger if you want the car to feel strong in the upper rev band.

 

Number of factors will determine an engines "RELIABILITY"
the BUILD, the BUILDER(S), the INSTALL, the INSTALLER(S) and the DRIVER just to name a few.
Either way you go, JUST HAVE FUN with it.
That's what this is all about RIGHT?