Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing
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Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing
I know that you have to turn the distributor to set the timing, but I wonder how it would affect the sensors inside the distributor. Doesn't it change the offset of the CKP, TDC and CYP. You are basically fooling the ECU about the TDC position by giving it an offset, right?
How will the ECU react on this offset? Will the ECU also advance the fuel injection time if you advance the ignition?
How will the ECU react on this offset? Will the ECU also advance the fuel injection time if you advance the ignition?
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From: M Town, TN
Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (DutchITR1689)
i dunno how to answer your questions 
but i do know when my car was stock it was dyno'ed at 157whp at 16deg........... the timing was then advanced to 18deg and the power went to 164whp..... 7whp gain....... but of course the power band changed to a more mid-range setup than top-end
probly didnt have anything to do with what you were asking but thought i would chime in cus im bored at work
--chris
but i do know when my car was stock it was dyno'ed at 157whp at 16deg........... the timing was then advanced to 18deg and the power went to 164whp..... 7whp gain....... but of course the power band changed to a more mid-range setup than top-endprobly didnt have anything to do with what you were asking but thought i would chime in cus im bored at work
--chris
Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (DutchITR1689)
Adjusting your ignition timing via your distributor has nothing to do with your fuel injection.
In all honesty, you are best off leaving your ignition timing at factory settings until you get your vehicle on a dyno with a fuel/ignition management system such as hondata.
In all honesty, you are best off leaving your ignition timing at factory settings until you get your vehicle on a dyno with a fuel/ignition management system such as hondata.
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Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (mtber)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Adjusting your ignition timing via your distributor has nothing to do with your fuel injection.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why not. If you turn your distributor you are changing the offset of the sensors inside, right? I can't see what else it would do. And these sensors sends info to the ECU, right? And the ECU determines the ignition timing and fuel injection with these inputs, right?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why not. If you turn your distributor you are changing the offset of the sensors inside, right? I can't see what else it would do. And these sensors sends info to the ECU, right? And the ECU determines the ignition timing and fuel injection with these inputs, right?
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From: Jasma
Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (DutchITR1689)
It really doesn't matter that much for the +-4 degrees, but yeah, that is what's going on.
The fuel injection is retarded/advanced as well.
I think?
The fuel injection is retarded/advanced as well.
I think?
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Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (El Pollo Diablo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It really doesn't matter that much for the +-4 degrees, but yeah, that is what's going on.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
OK, I think so too, because the valve opening timing is not changed anyway. But it's possible that there is just a little bit too much fuel injected on the intake valve before it opens. And then it stops injecting fuel a little bit too soon.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
OK, I think so too, because the valve opening timing is not changed anyway. But it's possible that there is just a little bit too much fuel injected on the intake valve before it opens. And then it stops injecting fuel a little bit too soon.
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Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (El Pollo Diablo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It really doesn't matter that much for the +-4 degrees, but yeah, that is what's going on.
The fuel injection is retarded/advanced as well.
I think?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i don't see how that possible.. ecu maps can't be altered unless you tap into ecu and reburn chip or with some piggyback.. why would these exist in the first place.. lets say with hondata you oculd prewrite fuel/ignition timing maps, although base timing still needs to be adjusted via distributor.. but i never seen anyone tune the car via distributor other than checking base timing
The fuel injection is retarded/advanced as well.
I think?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i don't see how that possible.. ecu maps can't be altered unless you tap into ecu and reburn chip or with some piggyback.. why would these exist in the first place.. lets say with hondata you oculd prewrite fuel/ignition timing maps, although base timing still needs to be adjusted via distributor.. but i never seen anyone tune the car via distributor other than checking base timing
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From: Jasma
Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (vtec.dc2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec.dc2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't see how that possible.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
You don't see how what is possible? I said nothing about fuel maps or the like.
You don't see how what is possible? I said nothing about fuel maps or the like.
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From: Weed Country, Holland, Netherlands
Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (vtec.dc2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec.dc2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i don't see how that possible.. ecu maps can't be altered unless you tap into ecu and reburn chip or with some piggyback.. why would these exist in the first place.. lets say with hondata you oculd prewrite fuel/ignition timing maps, although base timing still needs to be adjusted via distributor.. but i never seen anyone tune the car via distributor other than checking base timing</TD></TR></TABLE>
You are changing the sensors input timing (offset) if you turn the distributor. Of course this is not the correct way to tune the motor. The best is to leave the offset at 0 (16 deg ignition) and change the ECU maps.
i don't see how that possible.. ecu maps can't be altered unless you tap into ecu and reburn chip or with some piggyback.. why would these exist in the first place.. lets say with hondata you oculd prewrite fuel/ignition timing maps, although base timing still needs to be adjusted via distributor.. but i never seen anyone tune the car via distributor other than checking base timing</TD></TR></TABLE>
You are changing the sensors input timing (offset) if you turn the distributor. Of course this is not the correct way to tune the motor. The best is to leave the offset at 0 (16 deg ignition) and change the ECU maps.
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From: Jasma
Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (DutchITR1689)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
OK, I think so too, because the valve opening timing is not changed anyway. But it's possible that there is just a little bit too much fuel injected on the intake valve before it opens. And then it stops injecting fuel a little bit too soon.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That really shouldn't matter much...in the end same amount gets into the airstream.
I don't think (and this is just based on mostly theorerical knowledge about ICEs) the engine operation/power production is THAT sensitive to start/stop of the fuel injection. Especially since the engine runs pretty rich in open l00p.
OK, I think so too, because the valve opening timing is not changed anyway. But it's possible that there is just a little bit too much fuel injected on the intake valve before it opens. And then it stops injecting fuel a little bit too soon.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That really shouldn't matter much...in the end same amount gets into the airstream.
I don't think (and this is just based on mostly theorerical knowledge about ICEs) the engine operation/power production is THAT sensitive to start/stop of the fuel injection. Especially since the engine runs pretty rich in open l00p.
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Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (El Pollo Diablo)
guess i misread what you meant.. though you said fuel injection is affected by turning distributor.. fuel injection is controlled by ecu..
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From: Jasma
Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (vtec.dc2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec.dc2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">guess i misread what you meant.. though you said fuel injection is affected by turning distributor.. fuel injection is controlled by ecu..</TD></TR></TABLE>
....which in turn is controlled by the distributor....(technically the sensors wherein)
Start of fuel injection will be affected propotionally to the ignition advance/retard as the distributor is turned.
Based on theory, I dun have the manual in front of me.
....which in turn is controlled by the distributor....(technically the sensors wherein)
Start of fuel injection will be affected propotionally to the ignition advance/retard as the distributor is turned.
Based on theory, I dun have the manual in front of me.
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From: Weed Country, Holland, Netherlands
Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (vtec.dc2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtec.dc2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">guess i misread what you meant.. though you said fuel injection is affected by turning distributor.. fuel injection is controlled by ecu..</TD></TR></TABLE>
The timing offset of the fuel injection yes, not the amount of fuel and the total duration.
The timing offset of the fuel injection yes, not the amount of fuel and the total duration.
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From: France
Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (DutchITR1689)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You are changing the sensors input timing (offset) if you turn the distributor. Of course this is not the correct way to tune the motor. The best is to leave the offset at 0 (16 deg ignition) and change the ECU maps.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's why when you adjust timing you have to put the U jumper connector for ECU.
Because if you adjust without it, the ECU will compensate the timing advance.
Check the manual for timing advance.
I have adjust timing the firt time without the jumper, nothing change. This time i have put the jumper and a feel a slight acceleration difference.
I'm at 18° too. Perfect, no knock with Mugen ECU.
You are changing the sensors input timing (offset) if you turn the distributor. Of course this is not the correct way to tune the motor. The best is to leave the offset at 0 (16 deg ignition) and change the ECU maps.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's why when you adjust timing you have to put the U jumper connector for ECU.
Because if you adjust without it, the ECU will compensate the timing advance.
Check the manual for timing advance.
I have adjust timing the firt time without the jumper, nothing change. This time i have put the jumper and a feel a slight acceleration difference.
I'm at 18° too. Perfect, no knock with Mugen ECU.
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Re: Q about turning the distributor for ignition timing (sylvain)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sylvain »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It's why when you adjust timing you have to put the U jumper connector for ECU.
Because if you adjust without it, the ECU will compensate the timing advance.
Check the manual for timing advance.
I have adjust timing the firt time without the jumper, nothing change. This time i have put the jumper and a feel a slight acceleration difference.
I'm at 18° too. Perfect, no knock with Mugen ECU.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I did feel a difference when I turned the distributor without jumping the service connector and without timing light. But I reset the ECU after adjustment.
Shorting the service connector is only needed for an accurate reading of the timing with the light. Without shorting the timing wil fluctuate.
Just how could the ECU possible know you are changing the sensors offset and compensate for it if you don't short the SCS connector?
How about this test: I'm turning the distributor without the jump wire. And then later I will jump the SCS and check the timing. Would the timing be different or not?
Modified by DutchITR1689 at 11:32 PM 10/12/2004
It's why when you adjust timing you have to put the U jumper connector for ECU.
Because if you adjust without it, the ECU will compensate the timing advance.
Check the manual for timing advance.
I have adjust timing the firt time without the jumper, nothing change. This time i have put the jumper and a feel a slight acceleration difference.
I'm at 18° too. Perfect, no knock with Mugen ECU.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I did feel a difference when I turned the distributor without jumping the service connector and without timing light. But I reset the ECU after adjustment.
Shorting the service connector is only needed for an accurate reading of the timing with the light. Without shorting the timing wil fluctuate.
Just how could the ECU possible know you are changing the sensors offset and compensate for it if you don't short the SCS connector?
How about this test: I'm turning the distributor without the jump wire. And then later I will jump the SCS and check the timing. Would the timing be different or not?
Modified by DutchITR1689 at 11:32 PM 10/12/2004
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