Has anyone tried taking EF9 Civic SiR hatch mount brackets, and welded them onto an EF2 Sedan (ED)? I know about Hasport and others but they're expensive and if you have a donor why bother?

Basically the idea is to swap over everything from the EF9 Civic 3 Dr. SiR donor, and drill out the spot welds holding the mount brackets in the engine bay, clean them up and drill/cut out the ED's D15 mounts and weld in the EF9 mounts.

What should I look out for if I go this route? I searched the net but found one site which described this method, but it was all text with no pics. My car is a Malaysian spec 1988 Civic EX (ED chassis sedan with D15 single carb engine, power windows, power steering and NO rear anti-roll bar).


Modified by nickgomez at 2:53 PM 10/6/2004

 

If I'm not mistaken, you will only need the left(gearbox) and right mounting brackets.

 

itll be easy. pretty much just bolt the rear braket in and then lower the engine down until everything looks lined up real well. then nmark adn weld those suckers in good luk on a shift linkage, as i dont think the hasport one will work.
of you get lucky maybe steve @ HMO has a whole linkage layin around from a motor he got in and will send it to you.

 

Thanks for the advice. Unless mistaken, the shift linkage will be carried over from the EF9 Civic 3Dr. SiR.

I guess it's time to stock up on fresh mounts, timing belt+tensioner, water pump, thermostat, oil filter, air filter, etc.

 

I'm still researching how to do this swap properly, and here's what a friend had to say. He's a race engineer for an 500PS twin turbo NSX team so he might know a thing or two.

"Your chassis is NOT designed to use the high power engine which you intend to swap. So I recommend that you reinforce the chassis prior to the engine swap.

For your reference, I would like to inform you that EF9's chassis is +30% reinforced as against EF3's chassis, and the suspension bush and engine mount were hardened. In case of EG6's chassis, it was reinforced by +100% as against EF3's chassis.

Lastly I strongly say my opinion. Please keep in your mind to secure the total performance by good balance between chassis, engine, drivetrain, brake and tire when you build a Good Performance Car. When you conduct the engine swap, please reinforce the chassis to accomodate with the engine performance"

What he wrote has got me worried about the bodyshell on my EF (ED) Civic. How to reinforce, he hasn't given me any details yet but I'm thinking:

a) Strut brace, lower tie brace
b) Expanding foam in side sill (stiffer, with relatively low weight penalty)

Does anyone here have further advice?

 

reinforced=weight
its a simple equasion

 

You can use a 90-93 Integra driver's side mount on the ED... You have to shave a small amount of material from the inner shaft of the mount to get it to sit in the bracket...

The DA mount can give you a good starting point for lining things up since it is basically bolt on...

The passenger side will need either an adapter bracket for the trans or the mounting point on the car moved to match the EF.

The rear mount.. I've heard you can use the stock B16A one bolted into the auto tranny bolt holes ... but I'm not 100% sure of this..

Personally, I'm running an EF B16A in an ED chassis .. using a DA driver's mount.. ED rear/pass mounts... with an adapter bracket on the passenger side.. a custom L bracket in the back.. with a solid urethane front mount... a la HCP Gen III

It works great. Engine doesn't "move too much" and it's smooth at idle like stock... unlike the all urethane "swap kit" set ups.... (no, I'm not hating on HCP/HASport kits.. but I am saying the 3 rubber + front urethane set up DEFINITELY has its merits ..my car is being built for daily driving and I went through a lot of trouble to get this particular set up.. I'm very pleased with the results)

 

BTW with the DA driver / stock mount based set up the engine sits in the "proper" location...

i.e. The SiR shift linkage fits like a glove. No shortened DA linkage bullshit to deal with.

My exhaust also bolted up without any issues...

The front cross member also clears the exhaust manifold without any problems... and the stock battery tray doesn't require any mods.

The engine is nice and close to the firewall where it should be.

 

Also, the expanding foam is a cool idea. Both my front crossmembers (i.e. radius rod and control arm subframes) are filled with it.

I'll probably try filling the engine bay frame rails (they are just begging for it with those big holes) and rear subframe (if possible) next.

But honestly, my motivation for the foam was just removing more of the "cheap car" feel ;-) I don't know how much of an improvement it made in terms of stiffness.. because I also upgraded the bushings to Mugen rubber at the same time, changed out ball joints, tie rods, etc...

I wouldn't be too worried about chassis flex.. He is just being an engineer :-)
Put a neuspeed bar on it and you will be fine. A front lower is nice too but mine (Cusco) didn't fit anymore with the B16A.

Oh .. And you WILL have to make a pocket in the frame rail for your alternator with this set up.. The bang bang should be located directly underneath that "hole" in the driver's side frame rail.. under the shock tower.. in front of the rear subframe mounting points...

As for axles, I'm using the Y1 int shaft and custom Raxles .. XSi knuckles w/ the dust rings still intact... so I can't comment as to whether the SiR axles will work...

Also. with the set up you are proposing.. you should probably investigate fabbing a nice front mount to help keep the motor from moving around.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Perhaps the worry is more of whether the stock spot welds can hold up to a drivetrain with 160PS+ compared to the current 90+PS. About almost double what the bodyshell was meant to take!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nickgomez &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the feedback. Perhaps the worry is more of whether the stock spot welds can hold up to a drivetrain with 160PS+ compared to the current 90+PS. About almost double what the bodyshell was meant to take!</TD></TR></TABLE>

maybe i dont quite understand what you are saying? the ED can handle the B16A just fine.

people run a totally stock chassis (stock engine mount brackets... and maybe some bolt on braces) with urethane swap mounts (which stress the bracket welds even more due to transferring so much vibration) and motors putting out 150+ 200+ hp all the time ...

the ED is fine. it is not going to fold up like a tin can just because you put an extra 50HP (vs the D16A6) on it. you don't need to worry about it.

just put the DA mount on the driver's side, and deal with the rear and passenger mounts. Like some of the people on this thread are saying, I think the rear mount from the B16A will just bolt on to the auto tranny bolt holes then the passenger side will need either an adapter plate or a different bracket welded to the chassis. For the front mount, you should be able to just buy the HCP front mount and use your stock cross-member bracket with the holes redrilled (and possibly some trimming to the bracket itself). I HIGHLY recommend putting that HCP mount on the front.

This was the old school way to do it.. DA driver's mount.. B16A rear mount.. hacked passenger mount.. and either no front mount or a custom one (nowadays you can just get the HCP one tho).. (altho u might be able to use the stock one -- but it doesnt really do that much... )

You have NOTHING to worry about as far as the chassis... Big deal the EF is stiffer... There are 99999999 swapped EDs on these forums... None of them have torn themselves apart yet from the massive screaming 160 horse power of a little 1.6L VTEC....



Modified by alexdog69 at 11:24 PM 10/11/2004

 

I'm not too happy with the vibrations from my Place Racing Urethane mounts. If you can get the stock mounts to work, I say go for it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not too happy with the vibrations from my Place Racing Urethane mounts. If you can get the stock mounts to work, I say go for it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah but that would defeet the purpose of a performance motor mount

I love my PR mount and unless u driving this thing for comfort then don't change the engine out

but good luck bro with the weighing down of the car might as well not swap anything