I'd go with option B. "Buy once, cry once."

 

Boy the more you dug into it the worse it got. I am not a huge fan on re ringin H22 pistons. I have and it has lasted maybe 40k miles... which was few years for me. Just not a favorable thing ringlands are brittle... seen them crack more often then not. Just a preference of putting it back together right so brings you to Standard bore TypeS/EuroR OEM HONDA new pistons.

If you can get Type A or Type B which ever your cylinder walls need... I would run Standard size bore pistons Type S or Euro R. Mic the walls too should be able to choose a correct piston from just measuring specs... and hope that tiny scratch wont hurt anything.

Use the stock H23AV Blue Top rods as they are roughly 20k shorter than H23A1 rods. Which will sit your Type S/Euro R piston at 0 deck height most h22s are 6k in the hole. If you are planning to run some high lift cams I would compensate with a 35k thick cometic gasket. Some have valve relief issues with the Type S/Euro R piston on this setup. So tiny further away the better... However this just eventually gets you to almost 10.6-1 compression/stock... so it becomes a matter of money versus worth and power... but it is easier then sleeving the motor and doing it right....

Reason I haven't even mentioned boring it 25 over is because in more cases than not it fails within 20k miles. The procedure is pretty darn finicky and only a handful or 2 can do it right in the states. Requires certain stones and a machine that is capable of going the SLOW rpm needed. Which most cant.

You would have better luck getting the Darton Dry Sleeves for $250... but have to find a shop that will even take on a press in type sleeve and warantee it. But that is better option. Then can run standard forged piston 87mm. But then again I have seen most shops will charge same price for labor as a Darton MID $600 sleeve set.... So then money is involved... Then get a real sleeve cheapest and durable is Benson Sleeves and Laskey Racing out of Cali. Send them the block and they can do it believe under $1000 out the door. This beats what I have paid and used and that is Darton MIDs with a $900 labor charge being takes day and half on the machine to do. Not including price of sleeve set of $600.

 

@ ESP:

-Re-ringing? Do you mean changing the piston rings on the same pistons? Or putting those pistons back in to the block with a honed bore?

-I can catch my nail on the scratch. It only gets deep enough to do that towards the bottom of the piston's travel. I have not been able to find A/B differentiated pistons, and cannot find any AABB-type markings on the block.

-I was going to use the current rods. No cams on this build, just 1991crxsi's ported head and stiffer valve springs.

-This machinist is confident about honing it. He claims to have seen these engines before, and it's a well reviewed shop.

-Sleeving is ooooooout of the question. I'll buy a different block before I sleeve this one. I know that these cylinders are tricky but it;s a step too far. A good condition h22a4 block is $250 on eBay.

 

The markings are where the block meets the head near the timing belt pastic side towards the firewall on intake side. All H blocks will have the 4 long code.

Yes re ringing means re using the pistons that were in it. But with new HONDA OEM rings. If I were you... I would get the standard size OEM HONDA EuroR/TypeS pistons and rings and throw it back together. Or if want to get out cheap next bet would be Hastings on piston rings... believe they are around $50 from them directly.

Its just more of a pain to even hope things go well with a overbore per Honda FRM Bore and Hone specified procedure. Your odds are better off if pistons are workable P2W specs... run it..... so keep is to get the standard bore pistons.. mic each piston and cylinder and go from there... If they are not too tight or too loose should be okay google correct Piston 2 Wall specs for factory cast honda pistons.

 

Found it under a layer of grime. AAAA

Now about Nippon Racing? That's the brand type-s pistons I see on eBay, and they come with Nippon Racing rings.

So, how much oil would this engine burn if that's the course of action I pursued, with the cylinder wall defects? I'm not adverse to relatively frequent topping off, it's going through catalytic converters from zinc poisoning that will get old (their presence on the car is not up for debate or question). That scratch is only deep enough to catch a nail towards the bottom, but i just realized some small scratches around the lips of bores 2 and 3 near the top.

Looks like clearance on piston to wall is the same for all cast pistons, people seem to think 0.0015-0.002" is the rule of thumb.

also, ESP, will your rear trunk bars for the CB platform work in the CD?

 

You want HONDA OEM white/brown box with Red Part # tag... they are getting harder to find. You want standard bore. You cannot trust any other knockoffs... from Honda they have a special coating on the skirts for the FRM... I would say pretty darn hard to duplicate and I would bet money on it Nippon cheapys have not done it right.

I don't believe the CB and CD are the same. Real Close.

Honda OEM rings perferred H22A4 98-01 or Hastings... if they carry OEM bore

Type S pistons

http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc...age&item=10021

 

Thanks for the link. From the research I had done, Nippon seemed like a decent brand. i wouldn't think poor quality knockoffs would exist in Japan, at least ones that were made /in/ Japan. Cultural bias for the positive perhaps? But then, I thought the issue with forged/vs cast and FRM cylinders had to do with grain structure and what wore first, and the cast pistons wore first, or something, and that all coated pistons eventually wore-out and damaged the bore? (Mahle Gold, ect.)And I called the Honda dealer, piston ring set for a 98 Prelude is $55 so...no reason not to there I suppose. Thanks for the link to those genuine pistons.

 

The Honda OEM H22/ Type S and Euro R pistons believe have a special patch on the skirts just for the FRM cylinders... it is made of unicorn tears and very hard to duplicate... You go with cheap knockoffs on FRM expect rebuild sooner than later...

Mahle Gold Series only ones to come close to be able to make things work.

 

Called the honda dealer again to order the rings and...$68 per cylinder this time...does that sound right? That's going to be as much as the pistons from Hmotors

[Edit] Hastings 2C4767 on eBay, $52 shipped, 87mm.

 

Tachi go with Hastings should be fine... Yes your initial quote seemed low... think at one time was $140 for all cylinders... even with discounts $43 per cylinder... go with hastings...

 

Hasting bearings, ordered. Clevite tri-metal mains and rod bearings ordered (thrust washers too). H motors was away from the phone and I had to go to work.

 

The Clevite bearings arrived. The "Made in Japan" label on the mains makes me happy inside. :3

Going to buy the RDX injectors soon so i can finish the intake manifold in one go. BWD or Denso? I can get the BWD through my work for about the same cost of the Denso units on ebay, and it seems worryingly cheap for injectors supposedly so good. Determined that the B/D adapter hats will work for the H fuel rail, my only concern is injector quality. I think I can get a lifetime warranty on the BWD ones through work so I might most likely go that route unless I get big warnings not to.

 

I have tried multiple times calling Hmotors during their business hours and left a message with my contact information on it. I'm buying the nippon pistons. ESP, any ideas on injector quality between BWD and Denso, insofar as durability and oem performance?

 

I am with ESP regarding the pistons, find an OEM Honda part instead of the Nippons. If Steve at HMO wont answer the phone, search around, but the A and B ones are SUPER rare to find. I thought I bought a set of B's, but they were the .025 oversize once I got them. Also, I went through all of the various part setups to see what I could get with stock parts, and using the rods from that engine with Type-S pistons should give you good clearance for cams, and a decent compression ratio. With the H23A1 rods and H22A pistons, sticking out of the deck .020, things get tight in a hurry, and compression is a tiny bit higher, but I was able to safely run Pro1 cams. Until a cam gear slipped at least...

On the intake manifold and TB, the big stroke of the H23, and more airflow from bigger cams, really dictates a large volume and shorter runner compared to the Euro-R manifold or stock. From the info I found, a ported stock IM seems to be the best match for the engine setup, paired with as large a TB as you can. I went with a 76 on mine, with Pro1 cams.
For the comparison, I started off with a stock im, tb, cams, and injectors on my H23. When I switched to Pro1 cams I hardly gained any power, but was still fine on the injectors. Then I did the intake setup, and couldn't even get enough fuel to finish low lobe tuning out of the injectors, since it was flowing that much more air. I made a big jump to ID 1000s, and have never been happier. I actually have that setup on a stock JDM H22A right now, a bit of overkill for a stock longblock, but it works.

 

Of the clearance/rod issue I'm well aware, but it bears repeating as the myth persists. And I understand that importance, but you have to understand, while I am fine paying a bit more to get the right parts the first time around, there are some things that cannot be found for a price that is within reason. I will give them two more shots this week, otherwise I truly will have no recourse on the matter. I found a couple potential alternatives to try. but I'm planning to take advantage of a mostly clean 95 accord coupe to re-shell my current car's h22A/trans, and this engine budget just keeps growing... x3

Skunk2 manifold and 70mm TB are awaiting final port matching and smoothing to 1991crxsi's ported head. I will be using stock cams, that will be my "stage 2" on this build.

 

I have read in my research that this "special unicorn tears coating" doesn't have terrible much to do with FRM compatibility. Obviously it helps, but the real issue is simply cast vs. forged pistons. A cast piston doesn't expand (due to heat) like a forged piston does. This is why the Mahle Gold's aren't great for longevity; they have not perfected the "special" forgings that Jun has. So I don't thing it has as much to do with that moly coating on the piston skirts.

For this reason, I would think that the Nippons would be fine. I have heard other people with experience with them say they are fine too. Haven't seen any horror stories yet.

Just another perspective for ya

 

But at this point just theory crafting? I try googling opinions on the Nippon pistons in H-family engines and there seems to be not a whole lot of parseable negative. not many people saying that they had to rebuild their engine in 20k miles and having ruined cylinder bores or the like. I mean, let's be entirely honest, two and a half decades after the H-block hit mass production, and the aftermarket can't even get close? I /have/ to call a degree of bullcrap on that. Honestly, with the rings in hand, the difference between Hmotors's price and the Nippon set isn't worth quibbling over for Honda OEM. But I'm seeing $350+ for a full set somewhere else. And meanwhile a coworker is talking about buying a set of eight forged pistons for his Durango's 5.9L for ~$250...

[checks google on A/B cylinder specs] Okay, so there is ten thousandths difference on average, between A and B cylinder bores. So does that mean the Nippon pistons, being sized for only one bore, are going to be conservative for B-specs, or will they be engineered to be as close to 87mm as possible? If so, given that my block is a quadruple-A, those would work, in terms of sizing and sealing without putting undue stress on the ring lands.

 

It's a little more than theory crafting, it's a very logical process. Think about it: from a piston manufacturer's standpoint, how much profit would there actually be in creating a true FRM compatable forged piston? Not a whole lot or else you'd see engineered forged pistons that actually work (besides Jun).

There is no way you can compare the price of any Honda pistons to that of the extrememly mass produced Hemis or especially Chevy engines. Once again this is supply and demand. Everyone and there dog is going to buy pistons for their Hemi so they aren't going to charge an arm and a leg.

 

I don't mean forged pistons, I mean aftermarket-replacements, like if one went down to Oreilly's and bought replacement pistons for their engine. I mean, I can order a remanufactured H22A4 long block from OReilly's, it comes with a warranty, and I highly doubt they're going to re-use the original pistons in the reman.

 

Leon has a set of OEM Type-S A's with heat barrier coated tops...

 

Messaging him on FB now.

 

Small update.
The B/D adapters for RDX injectors work in the h22 fuel rail.

4x BWD RDX fuel injectors
Nippon h22 type-s pistons*
ARP head stud kit

All ordered. I would like to be able to say home stretch, but I still have to replace the whole exhaust and buy a S300, and the engine tuned.

* I spoke with the seller and given that I have a AAAA block, the tolerances of the 87mm pistons will work for this block.

 

The injectors arrived. Turns out that, as of 2016, ordering BWD pieces from Oreillys gets you genuine Denso parts.

 

Why the S300? Why not just run a chipped ECU tuned on Neptune, Crome, Ectune Etc?

 

The car's initial tune was on Crome, not impressed. Neptune would still have to be bought. I like what the S300 offers quite a bit (end user tunability and bluetooth link) so why not? Already running S100.