Originally Posted by KWayRacing

When changing a master cylinder. Always make sure the seal either comes off withthe brake master cylinder(which it will not) or that you remove it from the brake booster where it will be stuck or otherwise you will have a spongy pedal headache.

Originally Posted by Evs-One

Regarding refinishing rotors, new and used

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by American Honda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
American Honda requires refinishing of the front brake
discs with an on-car brake lathe that mounts to the
steering knuckle. Use of an on-car, steering knucklemounted
lathe is critical because it corrects runout of
the hub and disc as an assembly. Experience has
shown that very small amounts of runout, not felt as
brake pulsation initially, will grow and become
noticeable as the discs are subjected to heat and wear
over time and mileage. That is the reason for the
requirement to refinish new brake discs.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Originally Posted by gsrjdmb18c

where can i get an on car lathe?

Originally Posted by Spawne32

that stoptech "myths" section is such complete an utter bullshit, i cant stand it when people try to use that as an argument. While pad deposits do cause vibration and is a real problem, many people use that stoptech article as a claim that cast iron rotors cannot physically warp, which is just not the case, all metal that is constantly heated and cooled is susceptible to warping, ive had rotors come off cars that were so badly warped you couldn't get them to sit level on the ground.

Originally Posted by Mikey3000

Who the hell are you? I'm more likely to believe Carroll Smith, the author of that article, than you. He was a very accomplished racing engineer is whole life and even helped ARP design fasteners. Just because material undergoes high temperature operation doesn't mean it'll warp. It's when that material isn't under uniform pressure during the high temperature that it warps. Rotors are clamped evenly on both sides, barring abnormal circumstances, during their operation and hence, no warpage!

Originally Posted by Spawne32

Do some actual mechanical work on cars and you will realize the inherent flaw in that article...

In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.


Im not gona argue the fact that pad material transfer doesnt cause problems, but almost EVERY case of "warped disc brakes" ive worked on has been exactly that, the rotor itself was noticeably warped.

Saying that cast iron rotors dont warp is complete bullshit, in fact they are 10x more likely to warp on regular cars under regular driving conditions then they are on race cars due to the variations in how the brakes are used.

Originally Posted by BrakeExpert

For those of you with a soggy brake pedal after caliper installation, here is the CORRECT bleeding sequence:

Bleed the brakes Right Rear, Left Front, Left Rear, Right Front. You do not go farthest to closest with Hondas.

Always bench bleed the Master cylinder when replacing the master cylinder, ABS unit, or proportioning valve.

Originally Posted by baer

Seasoning Procedure:
Before you begin, please note: The following represents the minimum recommended, “Seasoning” process. If your situation offers any opportunity to perform gentle preliminary “Seasoning” outlined in Step 2 below for a longer period of time, this will
generally render even better performance and increase further long-term rotor life. Use the vehicle for 5 to 6 days of gentle driving. Use the brakes to the same extent that you used the stock brakes, DO NOT TEST PERFORMANCE or ATTEMPT HEAVY USE UNTIL ALL ITEMS OUTLINED HAVE BEEN COMPLETED. It is imperative that excessive heat is not put into the rotors at this stage. They need temperature-cycling to relieve the internal stresses.

Note: Zinc plated rotors (which are an extra cost option) need a couple of extra days of driving to wear through the plating before “Seasoning” actually will begin. Find a safe location where the brakes can be run to temperature. Your goal is to gradually increase brake temperatures with progressively faster stops.

Start by performing four 60 to 70 mph stops, as you would in the normal course of driving.

Next, perform four medium effort partial stops (about 50 %) from 60 mph down to 15 mph. Follow this with five minutes of freeway driving with LITTLE to NO BRAKING to allow the rotors to cool.

Then, perform four medium-hard effort partial stops (about 75 %) from 60 mph down to 15 mph. Follow this with ten minutes of freeway driving with LITTLE to NO BRAKING to allow the rotors to cool.

Park the car and allow the brakes to cool overnight to ambient temperature. You are now 50 % done with the rotor “Seasoning/Bedding” procedure proceed to STEP 4 the following day.

Return to the safe location where the brakes can be run to temperature. Make sure the brakes are warmed to full operating temperature and then, perform four medium effort partial stops (about 50 %) from 60 mph down to 15 mph. Follow this with
five minutes of freeway driving with LITTLE to NO BRAKING to allow the rotors to cool. Then, perform four medium-hard effort partial stops (about 75 %) from 60 mph down to 15 mph. Follow this with ten minutes of freeway driving with LITTLE to NO BRAKING
to allow the rotors to cool.

NOW, make six HARD partial stops from 60+ mph down to 15 mph or until rotors have reached an operation temperature of between 900 and 1,100° (Note: Temperature paints to accurately measure rotor temperature may be purchased from Baer Racing). Every effort should be made to perform this procedure without locking a wheel. Follow this with ten minutes of freeway driving with LITTLE to NO BRAKING to allow the rotors to cool.

Let the system cool off over night. The rotors are then ready for the next step in Preparing your Brake System: Bedding Pads.

Originally Posted by baer-pad bedding

Bedding brake pads has a couple of important effects. The friction material in semi-metallic pads is held together by an organic binder, usually a type of phenolic material. As the pads get hot, the binder boils and burns from the top surface of the pad. Once this burning or “Bedding” takes place, the friction material makes proper contact with the rotor.

Baer ClawŽ systems feature Baer’s ceramic-based SPORT TOURING “D-compound” brake pads. Although pre-burnished from the factory, SPORT-TOURING, just as with all pad types, benefit from being properly mated to the rotor surface. If both the rotor and pad are new and the rotor surfaces are un-plated, it is most desirable to run the pads through normal commuting type driving for at least 150-200-miles before using them aggressively. If the new rotor surface finish is plated or the rotor is used with a compound other than the SPORT-TOURING ceramic-based pad, increase the commuter type driving with no hard use, to a total of 250-300-miles to accomplish the blending of the pad surface to the rotor surface.

Bedding The Pads - (NEVER DRAG the brakes)

Note: Never “Bed” pads on rotors, which have not first been “Seasoned.” Always allow a substantial coast down zone when bedding pads that will allow you to safely drive the car to a stop in the event of fade.

1.Perform four-repeated light to medium stops, from 65 to 10 mph, to bring the rotors to temperature.
2.Perform three light stops in succession. Perform eight heavy stops, back to back, at a point just pending wheel lock, from 65 mph to about 5 mph.
3.Drive for ten minutes to create cooling airflow, without using the brakes if at all possible.
4.Perform three light stops in succession. Perform eight heavy stops, back to back, at a point just pending wheel lock, from 65 mph
to about 5 mph.
5.Drive for ten minutes to create cooling airflow, without using the brakes if at all possible.
Additional Notes:

◦Metallic brake pads – Metallic pads need high temperatures to keep the pad “Bedded”. If you drive the car for a period of time without using the brakes extensively, you may need to “Bed” the pads again. This is not a problem. Simply repeat the procedure.
◦Switching from Carbon Metallic pads to semi-metallic brake pads (not recommended) – When switching from Carbon Metallic pads to semi-metallic brake pads will need to wear through the layer of carbon that the PFC pads have deposited in the rotor surface. The new pads won’t grip well at all, until this layer of carbon is removed.
◦Racers - Racers should “Bed” a few sets of pads at a time. In the event you need to change brake pads during a race, you MUST use a set of “Bedded” pads. Racing on “non-bedded” pads leads to a type of “fade” caused by the binding agents coming out of the pad too quickly. This is called “green fade”. These binders may create a liquid (actually a gas) layer between your pads and rotors. Liquids have a very poor coefficient of friction. This condition is the reason for reverse slotting or cross-drilling rotors, as it allows a pathway for the gasses to escape.

Originally Posted by baer

Bleeding the brakes requires a properly sized box wrench for the bleeder and the clear plastic bleed hose provided with your system. Good quality, non-silicone fluid is also a must. Baer Brakes has tested a wide variety of fluids and strongly recommends Performance Friction’s Z-Rated fluid #90016 for street and occasional track use (with Motorcraft PM1 our backup suggestion for this same duty). These two have been proven to be more effective than fluids that are often many times more expensive. For racing, Baer recommends and uses only Castrol SRF. Baer stocks and sells both the Performance Friction Z-Rated and Castrol SRF.


Always remember, good to excellent brakes or fluid do not function without adequate cooling. In fact, the more serious your brake system, the more attention that needs to be directed to proper ducting, as they will generate more heat due to increased capacity.

BLEEDING BRAKES IS NOT DONE WITH PRESSURE, IT IS PURELY A FUNCTION OF MOVING FLUID THROUGH THE SYSTEM. THE OBJECT IS TO DISPLACE AIR, NOT TO SEE HOW FAR FLUID CAN BE SHOT OUT OF THE CALIPER!



Proper Bleeding Technique
Enlist someone who will help you bleed the brakes. Make sure they also read these instructions carefully (so they understand the goal).

1.For systems which are essentially dry front and rear, start by filling the master cylinder with proper fluid. Pour slowly so as not to aerate the fluid.

2.Next, move to the first caliper, attach the clear plastic bleed hose to the bleeder and open it. Hold the hose upright so that you can monitor the escape of air bubbles. VERY SLOWLY stroke the brake pedal by hand or foot until fluid comes out. Now close the bleeder.

3.ACTUAL BLEEDING SEQUENCE:
◦Have your partner very slowly, with modest pressure (approximately 25-30 lbs.ft.), stroke the pedal ONE TIME until hydraulic resistance is encountered. Ask your partner to hold at this point with the same modest and even pressure and notify you that he is “holding.”
◦Open the bleeder, letting the pedal go to the floor or until it stops, using the same modest level of pressure, then close the bleeder again. Notify your partner “the system is sealed.” He can then slowly release pedal pressure.

4.Repeat the BLEEDING SEQUENCE (never stroke the pedal more than one time) until all signs of air are purged (no bubbles) from fluid. IMPORTANT
◦NOTE: DO NOT LET THE MASTER CYLINDER RUN DRY! Be sure to check the fluid level after every third bleeding sequence or sooner if reservoir volume is very small.

5.Before moving to the next caliper, take a small block of wood or a plastic hammer and carefully tap the caliper to dislodge any additional air bubbles that may be trapped. Then bleed one last time.

6.Move to the next caliper and repeat the procedures previously outlined. Continue until all calipers have been bled.
Before re-installing wheels and placing the car on the ground, we recommend you carefully wipe clean all caliper surfaces, hose joints and fittings, making sure they are all dry and free from seepage. If not, inspect and tighten appropriately. Spray all rotor surfaces with Brake KleenŽ or a similar product to remove all dirt and oils from your hands that may have been transferred to the rotor during assembly. Also remember to remove the nut that has been holding rotor in place before attempting to re-install the wheel.

For street use, as with any time you open the brake system, it may be advisable to repeat the bleeding procedure after driving the vehicle for a day, as driving the car may dislodge some additional air bubbles. For competition cars, we recommend repeating this procedure directly after at least the first two sessions the car is on track and at the beginning of each race weekend thereafter.

Even if your pedal is high and firm and additional bleeding is deemed unnecessary, always inspect the calipers, hoses and fittings after the first outing for signs of any fluid seepage and correct immediately.