Weekend race results?
10-25-2004, 07:12 AM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Valley Forge, PA, USA
Posts: 4,323
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Weekend race results?
So what happened down at Summit?!?
Up at Watkins Glen I went out for the first practice session in light rain, and on Azenises, and proptly dumped my car into the gravel pit on the outside of turn 8 when my tires just completely failed to hook up. In the process I lost my splitter, the air dam, and part of my stock front bumper. I was able to fix the bumper and get it back on though in time for qualifying. About a lap into qualifying my battery light came on, and I thought, "****! The alternator broke!" I did 5 laps to get down a decent time, and pitted in. I managed to qualify 5th in big bore, which I was happy with. Mechanically the good news was that the alternator was fine, there was just no belt going to it anymore. No problem though, I had 3 1/2 hours until the race.
I drove down to the NAPA to get the stock belt (and two others, plus one and minus one size) and returned to find out that all of the belts were WAY too big. So here was the problem... I had no idea what size belt I needed. I found a competitor with a similar set up, and returned to NAPA to get his size belt (plus and minus again), and still no luck. I decided to try to run the race on just battery power, but on the warm up lap the gauges started to fail, and the warning lights were dimming. With the nature of the Glen, if I had broken down on the track they would have to black flag the race, so in consideration of my fellow racers, I pitted in instead of taking the green. Using zip ties I made a make-shift belt that was the right size, cut it off, and measured it to determine what size belt I need. I had to run all the way back to Elmira, NY to get it, but it was good.
Friday night, I went out for dinner with my sponsor (Dave Davis, from Davis Acura) who was also there racing his Integra GSR. He won small bore, and let it go a bit to his head, and was claiming that he could actually beat me. After a bit of his carrying on, I decided to take the challenge to him, and switch to small bore for the next day. Being the only car in my class, they were very willing to let me switch.
For Saturday's small bore race they gridded based on previous day's finishing position, so he was starting on pole, I was starting last. There were about 6 cars in the same boat as me, and they were kind enough to let me start at the front of that rear pack. So I was 13th, he was 1st. The first start was waved off because somebody jumped it, but a few people on the grid took off like the race was underway. The field was totally jumbled, and wasn't fixed until the turn before the front straight to take the real green. They slowed WAY down, and bunched up tighter than any grid I had ever seen before. It played right into my hands! I downshifted to second, and while everybody else was watching each other, I was watching the flag stand. When they threw the green I was right in the heart of my powerband, and had clear track as far as the eye could see on the inside lane. By turn 1 I had gone from 13th to 2nd!!!
I was all over Dave through the esses, and took the pass in the braking zone for the chicane. In less than one minute I went from 13th to 1st. I was conservative in the boot to make sure I didn't go off on cold Hoosiers (ambient temp was in the 30s and it took a while to build temp), and he passed me back, along with another car that tried to follow suit and actually knocked fenders with me on the exit of the turn when he couldn't hold the line. I reeled him right back in though, and re-passed him on lap 2, and never looked back. I don't even know my margin of victory, but it had to be at least 30 seconds or so. It was kind of a hollow victory though, since the matchups were so unfair. It's sort of like the same pleasure you get from beating up a crippled kid. It's fun to have the title, but inside you know you didn't really accomplish anything. I definately enjoyed the laps on my favorite track though!
Matt
Up at Watkins Glen I went out for the first practice session in light rain, and on Azenises, and proptly dumped my car into the gravel pit on the outside of turn 8 when my tires just completely failed to hook up. In the process I lost my splitter, the air dam, and part of my stock front bumper. I was able to fix the bumper and get it back on though in time for qualifying. About a lap into qualifying my battery light came on, and I thought, "****! The alternator broke!" I did 5 laps to get down a decent time, and pitted in. I managed to qualify 5th in big bore, which I was happy with. Mechanically the good news was that the alternator was fine, there was just no belt going to it anymore. No problem though, I had 3 1/2 hours until the race.
I drove down to the NAPA to get the stock belt (and two others, plus one and minus one size) and returned to find out that all of the belts were WAY too big. So here was the problem... I had no idea what size belt I needed. I found a competitor with a similar set up, and returned to NAPA to get his size belt (plus and minus again), and still no luck. I decided to try to run the race on just battery power, but on the warm up lap the gauges started to fail, and the warning lights were dimming. With the nature of the Glen, if I had broken down on the track they would have to black flag the race, so in consideration of my fellow racers, I pitted in instead of taking the green. Using zip ties I made a make-shift belt that was the right size, cut it off, and measured it to determine what size belt I need. I had to run all the way back to Elmira, NY to get it, but it was good.
Friday night, I went out for dinner with my sponsor (Dave Davis, from Davis Acura) who was also there racing his Integra GSR. He won small bore, and let it go a bit to his head, and was claiming that he could actually beat me. After a bit of his carrying on, I decided to take the challenge to him, and switch to small bore for the next day. Being the only car in my class, they were very willing to let me switch.
For Saturday's small bore race they gridded based on previous day's finishing position, so he was starting on pole, I was starting last. There were about 6 cars in the same boat as me, and they were kind enough to let me start at the front of that rear pack. So I was 13th, he was 1st. The first start was waved off because somebody jumped it, but a few people on the grid took off like the race was underway. The field was totally jumbled, and wasn't fixed until the turn before the front straight to take the real green. They slowed WAY down, and bunched up tighter than any grid I had ever seen before. It played right into my hands! I downshifted to second, and while everybody else was watching each other, I was watching the flag stand. When they threw the green I was right in the heart of my powerband, and had clear track as far as the eye could see on the inside lane. By turn 1 I had gone from 13th to 2nd!!!
I was all over Dave through the esses, and took the pass in the braking zone for the chicane. In less than one minute I went from 13th to 1st. I was conservative in the boot to make sure I didn't go off on cold Hoosiers (ambient temp was in the 30s and it took a while to build temp), and he passed me back, along with another car that tried to follow suit and actually knocked fenders with me on the exit of the turn when he couldn't hold the line. I reeled him right back in though, and re-passed him on lap 2, and never looked back. I don't even know my margin of victory, but it had to be at least 30 seconds or so. It was kind of a hollow victory though, since the matchups were so unfair. It's sort of like the same pleasure you get from beating up a crippled kid. It's fun to have the title, but inside you know you didn't really accomplish anything. I definately enjoyed the laps on my favorite track though!
Matt
10-25-2004, 08:10 AM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Weekend race results? (speedracer33)
Who did you run with, EMRA? Doesn't sound like SCCA.
What kind of times did you run on the long course with your car?
s
What kind of times did you run on the long course with your car?
s
10-25-2004, 08:22 AM
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Murphy, Tx, USA
Posts: 2,759
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Weekend race results? (speedracer33)
Similar to the H2-H5 race:
Saturday:
Phil (H3) qualified on pole, me behind him (H2), and then the H4 cars. On the start, I spun wheels, so did Phil. We were neck to neck to turn one. He braked and went sideways, I dived in the inside. He popped back into the line and I tried to avoid him, but tap him on his front passenger side. I kept going. An H3 car broke on the pace lap and laid oil down from turn 7 to turn 9. Unfortunately, I don't think there was a flag and Beno (H5) spun and hit the tire wall on the outside of 8. Car is done. I believe the H4 race was great, but it was behind me so I didn't see much of it.
Sunday:
I qualified pole because the track was damp and not wet during qualifying. I used some medium tread Kumho's which was better than the Dirt Stockers in those conditions. I got a decent but not great start (rolling start). I realize that the LS & GSR built motors seem to have more torque than me + the fact that I am not that great = they were right on me in the start. I held everyone off for a few laps, then we hit lapped traffic. Turn one was blocked by a Porsche and Keith (H5). Stupid me, I picked the outside which had the Porsche. Both H4 cars picked inside (behind Keith) and blew right past me. I did start to catch them again, but held off, because I just wanted to watch the great racing in front of me. Also, why mess up their AMAZING race!!! My goal was to keep Phil behind me. Well, I screwed that up with sloppy braking into turn one and I dived into the kitty litter. I hit a big ditch and banged up my radiator support, but I was able to get back on the track and finish the race.
All in all, it was fun to "win" a race, but I don't feel great because I won against no one in my class. It is true that the H3 & H4 drivers are great drivers with great cars, but their cars are just slower, so a win with no H2 cars is sort of anti-climatic.
Saturday:
Phil (H3) qualified on pole, me behind him (H2), and then the H4 cars. On the start, I spun wheels, so did Phil. We were neck to neck to turn one. He braked and went sideways, I dived in the inside. He popped back into the line and I tried to avoid him, but tap him on his front passenger side. I kept going. An H3 car broke on the pace lap and laid oil down from turn 7 to turn 9. Unfortunately, I don't think there was a flag and Beno (H5) spun and hit the tire wall on the outside of 8. Car is done. I believe the H4 race was great, but it was behind me so I didn't see much of it.
Sunday:
I qualified pole because the track was damp and not wet during qualifying. I used some medium tread Kumho's which was better than the Dirt Stockers in those conditions. I got a decent but not great start (rolling start). I realize that the LS & GSR built motors seem to have more torque than me + the fact that I am not that great = they were right on me in the start. I held everyone off for a few laps, then we hit lapped traffic. Turn one was blocked by a Porsche and Keith (H5). Stupid me, I picked the outside which had the Porsche. Both H4 cars picked inside (behind Keith) and blew right past me. I did start to catch them again, but held off, because I just wanted to watch the great racing in front of me. Also, why mess up their AMAZING race!!! My goal was to keep Phil behind me. Well, I screwed that up with sloppy braking into turn one and I dived into the kitty litter. I hit a big ditch and banged up my radiator support, but I was able to get back on the track and finish the race.
All in all, it was fun to "win" a race, but I don't feel great because I won against no one in my class. It is true that the H3 & H4 drivers are great drivers with great cars, but their cars are just slower, so a win with no H2 cars is sort of anti-climatic.
10-25-2004, 09:05 AM
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Weekend race results? (Im_In_There)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Im_In_There »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">David u need to begin street racing to improve those horrible starts. 
</TD></TR></TABLE> 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
10-25-2004, 09:06 AM
#6
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Fairfax, Va, Fairfax
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Weekend race results? (davidnyc)
David hats off to you and Phil for staying out of our race. You and Phil are class acts and a great asset to the HC community.
I know you both are hard core racers and it's hard to hold back and be patient.
I honestly didn't know I had passed you until I got by Ian and Keith in T1 for the overall lead. I was drafting Ian down the main straight on the inside when all three of us (you in the lead) came upon what seemed like a gaggle of Porsche's and H5 cars. I saw Ian pull over to the left in the braking zone and it was like someone parted the Red Sea. I saw all these cars (you and Ian included get bunched up under braking and just dived inside of you all.
At that point Ian and I ran bumper to bumper the rest of the race. Highlight of the race was the most awesome bit of racing/passing I have ever been invloved in.
Ian in front and me pushing his read bumper through turn 9 and 10 we came upon a slower Porsche who was exiting turn 10. Ian had to slow down and pass the Porsche on the inside. I never lifted and was carrying so much speed I had to pass the Porsche on the outside at track out.
When I did this I had no idea if there was any pavement there. It was either hit the Porsche dead on or pray I could go outside. I passed him on the outside with no room for error and had just enough pavement to get the front wheels back on the pavement (the rears dragged throught the grass.
Best part was that I got the position in turn 1, but Ian got me in turn 3.
The race came down to the last lap in turn 1 with Ian on the ourside and me on the inside. I think we both must have hit out brakes somewhere around 150 feet. I slid wide and would have hit Ian but he slid wide as well and into the dirt.
Ian won Saturday's race and I took Sunday's race. We are tied dead even going into the final race weekend for the title.
I'll have the video of the pass on the Porsche up soon. It'll remind some of you of the infamous Hakkinen pass on Schumacher (with poor Zonta between them) at Spa a few years back.....................just a lot slower of course.
Other results:
H1 Saturday Pete Curpier won over Scott Burner
It wasn't all good news. In Sunday's race there was a huge crash at start finish three laps into the race. An incident in turn 1 brought out the red flag at start finish. The two leading Porsche's stopped just past start finished and pulled over. Two factory Five's came barreling down the front straight at max speed when the one in front started to brake for the flag. The one in back never saw the flag.
I got conflicting stories about what happened next, but the front FF went into the grass and whacked a tree so hard it knocked it down completely then came back on track. The car was utterly destroyed and the driver wasn't moving at all.
After all the support personell got there they were able to help the driver get out and into the ambulance.
I was standing at the top of the tower at start finish with fellow HC'er's Phil Phillips, Franza and Whitaker. It was very silent up there. We thought it might be real bad. Everyone was worried.
I hope the driver is going to be ok. They canceled the race from that point on.
It's one of the worst wrecks I have seen in NASA or SCCA (excluding the professional series).
Regards,
Jon
I know you both are hard core racers and it's hard to hold back and be patient.
I honestly didn't know I had passed you until I got by Ian and Keith in T1 for the overall lead. I was drafting Ian down the main straight on the inside when all three of us (you in the lead) came upon what seemed like a gaggle of Porsche's and H5 cars. I saw Ian pull over to the left in the braking zone and it was like someone parted the Red Sea. I saw all these cars (you and Ian included get bunched up under braking and just dived inside of you all.
At that point Ian and I ran bumper to bumper the rest of the race. Highlight of the race was the most awesome bit of racing/passing I have ever been invloved in.
Ian in front and me pushing his read bumper through turn 9 and 10 we came upon a slower Porsche who was exiting turn 10. Ian had to slow down and pass the Porsche on the inside. I never lifted and was carrying so much speed I had to pass the Porsche on the outside at track out.
When I did this I had no idea if there was any pavement there. It was either hit the Porsche dead on or pray I could go outside. I passed him on the outside with no room for error and had just enough pavement to get the front wheels back on the pavement (the rears dragged throught the grass.
Best part was that I got the position in turn 1, but Ian got me in turn 3.
The race came down to the last lap in turn 1 with Ian on the ourside and me on the inside. I think we both must have hit out brakes somewhere around 150 feet. I slid wide and would have hit Ian but he slid wide as well and into the dirt.
Ian won Saturday's race and I took Sunday's race. We are tied dead even going into the final race weekend for the title.
I'll have the video of the pass on the Porsche up soon. It'll remind some of you of the infamous Hakkinen pass on Schumacher (with poor Zonta between them) at Spa a few years back.....................just a lot slower of course.
Other results:
H1 Saturday Pete Curpier won over Scott Burner
It wasn't all good news. In Sunday's race there was a huge crash at start finish three laps into the race. An incident in turn 1 brought out the red flag at start finish. The two leading Porsche's stopped just past start finished and pulled over. Two factory Five's came barreling down the front straight at max speed when the one in front started to brake for the flag. The one in back never saw the flag.
I got conflicting stories about what happened next, but the front FF went into the grass and whacked a tree so hard it knocked it down completely then came back on track. The car was utterly destroyed and the driver wasn't moving at all.
After all the support personell got there they were able to help the driver get out and into the ambulance.
I was standing at the top of the tower at start finish with fellow HC'er's Phil Phillips, Franza and Whitaker. It was very silent up there. We thought it might be real bad. Everyone was worried.
I hope the driver is going to be ok. They canceled the race from that point on.
It's one of the worst wrecks I have seen in NASA or SCCA (excluding the professional series).
Regards,
Jon
10-25-2004, 09:10 AM
#7
Rather OG
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 8,179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Weekend race results? (FLATOUTRACING)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FLATOUTRACING »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was standing at the top of the tower at start finish with fellow HC'er's Phil Phillips, Franza and Whitaker. It was very silent up there. We thought it might be real bad. Everyone was worried.
I hope the driver is going to be ok. They canceled the race from that point on.
It's one of the worst wrecks I have seen in NASA or SCCA (excluding the professional series).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
H4 car winning overall? Yeah right
Seriously, I couldn't agree more concerning the crash. I had already decided to do so this off-season, but now am even more decisive on getting an Isaac.
I think it should be required in the rules. Seriously.
Great racing everyone. I loved watching the great show our group continues to put on.
I hope the driver is going to be ok. They canceled the race from that point on.
It's one of the worst wrecks I have seen in NASA or SCCA (excluding the professional series).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
H4 car winning overall? Yeah right
Seriously, I couldn't agree more concerning the crash. I had already decided to do so this off-season, but now am even more decisive on getting an Isaac.
I think it should be required in the rules. Seriously.
Great racing everyone. I loved watching the great show our group continues to put on.
Trending Topics
10-25-2004, 09:18 AM
#8
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Fairfax, Va, Fairfax
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Weekend race results? (Jason Franza)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason Franza »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">H4 car winning overall? Yeah right
Seriously, I couldn't agree more concerning the crash. I had already decided to do so this off-season, but now am even more decisive on getting an Isaac.
I think it should be required in the rules. Seriously.
Great racing everyone. I loved watching the great show our group continues to put on. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok....Ok..................DISCLAIMER: Franza wasn't there for the race in H2
I am getting a HANS for next season before I spend another dime on the H4 car. Somehow driving a tin top with only 130 hp has given me a false sense of security that might prove dangerous.
Certainly when I am in a 400 hp GT car or the Radical I tested a few weeks back you feel like a HANS is a must.
But after seeing that driver slumped over the wheel, the knocked down tree and what little was left of the car I'm ordering one for 05.
I think everyone should consider some form of neck protection.
Lyonel had a brand new HANS at Summit this weekend and he has the right idea.
I know they are expensive, but what good is a $900 ATS final drive when you're dead because you wouldn't spend the same amount on something that could save your life
Cheers,
Jon
Seriously, I couldn't agree more concerning the crash. I had already decided to do so this off-season, but now am even more decisive on getting an Isaac.
I think it should be required in the rules. Seriously.
Great racing everyone. I loved watching the great show our group continues to put on.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Ok....Ok..................DISCLAIMER: Franza wasn't there for the race in H2
I am getting a HANS for next season before I spend another dime on the H4 car. Somehow driving a tin top with only 130 hp has given me a false sense of security that might prove dangerous.
Certainly when I am in a 400 hp GT car or the Radical I tested a few weeks back you feel like a HANS is a must.
But after seeing that driver slumped over the wheel, the knocked down tree and what little was left of the car I'm ordering one for 05.
I think everyone should consider some form of neck protection.
Lyonel had a brand new HANS at Summit this weekend and he has the right idea.
I know they are expensive, but what good is a $900 ATS final drive when you're dead because you wouldn't spend the same amount on something that could save your life
Cheers,
Jon
10-25-2004, 09:28 AM
#9
Member
Re: Weekend race results? (FLATOUTRACING)
hi guys.
i can add a little something here....
sundays race was ROUGH. only two laps long, but 3 H1 guys i know of (me, kevin, and chris) ended up with contact. i got nudged fairly hard by a Z28 in the braking zone at the end of the chute. somehow i didn't lose it and continued. chris hit a pair of spinning mustangs/FF cars; i saw his tape; he had nowhere to go but into the cars in front of him. Kevin had damage on the drivers rear of his hatch from some other BB car....
it just seemed that the driving was rough and kinda "get the f$%^ out of my way" for the entire (really short) race. it never settled down after the start and i had the feeling in my gut that a bad wreck would happen.
not anything like any HC race i've been in before.... any of the other H1-ers have that feeling? kevin, chris, and i were qualified fairly poor in the 10th row and beyond; maybe it was only bad in the middle-back of the pack?
i'm glad my car is still in one piece!!!
todd
ps i ran a personal best of 1:25.4 on sat's race, and was thrilled!
i can add a little something here....
sundays race was ROUGH. only two laps long, but 3 H1 guys i know of (me, kevin, and chris) ended up with contact. i got nudged fairly hard by a Z28 in the braking zone at the end of the chute. somehow i didn't lose it and continued. chris hit a pair of spinning mustangs/FF cars; i saw his tape; he had nowhere to go but into the cars in front of him. Kevin had damage on the drivers rear of his hatch from some other BB car....
it just seemed that the driving was rough and kinda "get the f$%^ out of my way" for the entire (really short) race. it never settled down after the start and i had the feeling in my gut that a bad wreck would happen.
not anything like any HC race i've been in before.... any of the other H1-ers have that feeling? kevin, chris, and i were qualified fairly poor in the 10th row and beyond; maybe it was only bad in the middle-back of the pack?
i'm glad my car is still in one piece!!!
todd
ps i ran a personal best of 1:25.4 on sat's race, and was thrilled!
10-25-2004, 09:43 AM
#10
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakton, VA
Posts: 3,021
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Weekend race results? (Jason Franza)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason Franza »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think it should be required in the rules. Seriously.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's what the driver of the FF said later on as well. Truly the worst accident I've ever seen at the track. EV was rolling even before the car came to a complete stop and thankfully the driver was ok. After the initial shock of it wore off he was able to walk to the ambulance under his own power (from what I've been told).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's what the driver of the FF said later on as well. Truly the worst accident I've ever seen at the track. EV was rolling even before the car came to a complete stop and thankfully the driver was ok. After the initial shock of it wore off he was able to walk to the ambulance under his own power (from what I've been told).
10-25-2004, 09:47 AM
#11
Re: Weekend race results? (Dragon)
First off - we covered this debate a while back in the HANs vs. Isaacs vs. whatever thread a few weeks ago. The Cobra's impact was a side impact - a classic example of the type of impact a HANs has minimal protection for.
There was extremely little head-on impact in that incident.
Secondly - the driver is fine. He never left the track. He was thoroughly checked out by EV and showed up at the tower about 20 minutes later looking for his car which was obviously no longer at the track.
There was extremely little head-on impact in that incident.
Secondly - the driver is fine. He never left the track. He was thoroughly checked out by EV and showed up at the tower about 20 minutes later looking for his car which was obviously no longer at the track.
10-25-2004, 09:50 AM
#12
Rather OG
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 8,179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Weekend race results? (Evil Drew M)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First off - we covered this debate a while back in the HANs vs. Isaacs vs. whatever thread a few weeks ago. The Cobra's impact was a side impact - a classic example of the type of impact a HANs has minimal protection for.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Covered what? Adding a required head and neck restraint in the rules? I must have missed it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Covered what? Adding a required head and neck restraint in the rules? I must have missed it.
10-25-2004, 09:52 AM
#13
Re: Weekend race results? (Jason Franza)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason Franza »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Covered what? Adding a required head and neck restraint in the rules? I must have missed it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Covered the differences in the various head and neck restraint devices.
I was using this as an example to illustrate 1 area where a HANS is lacking in comparison to other systems such as the Isaacs or D-Cel.
I am not arguing that a system of some kind shouldn't be mandatory. Hell - I am looking to buy a system for HPDE driving.
Covered the differences in the various head and neck restraint devices.
I was using this as an example to illustrate 1 area where a HANS is lacking in comparison to other systems such as the Isaacs or D-Cel.
I am not arguing that a system of some kind shouldn't be mandatory. Hell - I am looking to buy a system for HPDE driving.
it really does lose something with h1 running in big bore...
10-25-2004, 09:58 AM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Murphy, Tx, USA
Posts: 2,759
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Weekend race results? (Evil Drew M)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First off - we covered this debate a while back in the HANs vs. Isaacs vs. whatever thread a few weeks ago. The Cobra's impact was a side impact - a classic example of the type of impact a HANs has minimal protection for.
There was extremely little head-on impact in that incident.
Secondly - the driver is fine. He never left the track. He was thoroughly checked out by EV and showed up at the tower about 20 minutes later looking for his car which was obviously no longer at the track.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The side impact issue, I think is one of the benefits of the ISAAC system (I use the ISAAC. Not to turn this into another debate.)
The MOST important issue is that every driver should have some sort of head and neck protection. I am not sure if it should be in the rules, however, if we follow other professional organizations, eventually, it should be in the rules.
There was extremely little head-on impact in that incident.
Secondly - the driver is fine. He never left the track. He was thoroughly checked out by EV and showed up at the tower about 20 minutes later looking for his car which was obviously no longer at the track.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The side impact issue, I think is one of the benefits of the ISAAC system (I use the ISAAC. Not to turn this into another debate.)
The MOST important issue is that every driver should have some sort of head and neck protection. I am not sure if it should be in the rules, however, if we follow other professional organizations, eventually, it should be in the rules.
10-25-2004, 10:06 AM
#16
Rather OG
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 8,179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Weekend race results? (Evil Drew M)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Covered the differences in the various head and neck restraint devices.
I was using this as an example to illustrate 1 area where a HANS is lacking in comparison to other systems such as the Isaacs or D-Cel.
I am not arguing that a system of some kind shouldn't be mandatory. Hell - I am looking to buy a system for HPDE driving.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Got a link on this thread, Drew? LOL, I wasn't thinking you were arguing. Damn emotionless internet
I was using this as an example to illustrate 1 area where a HANS is lacking in comparison to other systems such as the Isaacs or D-Cel.
I am not arguing that a system of some kind shouldn't be mandatory. Hell - I am looking to buy a system for HPDE driving.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Got a link on this thread, Drew? LOL, I wasn't thinking you were arguing. Damn emotionless internet
10-25-2004, 10:12 AM
#17
Re: Weekend race results? (Jason Franza)
10-25-2004, 10:14 AM
#18
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Now employed again in Roanoke, VA
Posts: 584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Weekend race results?
Just out of curiosity I checked out the FFCobra board this morning. They have a write-up on the crash. The driver has posted his comments also.
http://www.ffcobra.com/ubb/ult...01089
That was a pretty scary crash to me. I was right near the gas pumps when it happened. I heard the car spinning and saw lots of trees shaking. At least one fell from what I could tell. The noise was awful as well. I went to the scene by the track and within a minute the race Chris C. and others were getting everyone to move away from the scene...I (along with many others) became very concerned for the driver at that point. It was a huge relief to hear he was OK soon afterwards.
It is bad that this stuff happens, but they are always good opportunities to learn something. They also tend to make us focus on safety. After that crash, it made me feel very good about spending the last several weeks working non-stop puting a proper roll cage in my track car (and possibly future race car). I was just about sick of working on the car and was only finished working on it on Thursday before the event. Suddenly it did not seem like such a PITA anymore.
I want to add, that from my perspective, the NASA and Emergency crews handled the situation very well.
http://www.ffcobra.com/ubb/ult...01089
That was a pretty scary crash to me. I was right near the gas pumps when it happened. I heard the car spinning and saw lots of trees shaking. At least one fell from what I could tell. The noise was awful as well. I went to the scene by the track and within a minute the race Chris C. and others were getting everyone to move away from the scene...I (along with many others) became very concerned for the driver at that point. It was a huge relief to hear he was OK soon afterwards.
It is bad that this stuff happens, but they are always good opportunities to learn something. They also tend to make us focus on safety. After that crash, it made me feel very good about spending the last several weeks working non-stop puting a proper roll cage in my track car (and possibly future race car). I was just about sick of working on the car and was only finished working on it on Thursday before the event. Suddenly it did not seem like such a PITA anymore.
I want to add, that from my perspective, the NASA and Emergency crews handled the situation very well.
10-25-2004, 10:14 AM
#19
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Morgantown, wv, usa
Posts: 2,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Weekend race results? (davidnyc)
anyone have times and positions to post up yet? Better yet pictures of the race'n
I wish I could of been there.
I wish I could of been there.
10-25-2004, 10:22 AM
#20
Re: Weekend race results? (RexRacer19)
For the record (From the FFR thread):
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wade Chamberlain »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The two guys in the tower actually came running out the bridge for fear of getting tagged by debris!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is completely untrue.
No one left the starter tower until AFTER all the vehicles that were involved had come to a complete stop and EV was at the incident.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wade Chamberlain »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The two guys in the tower actually came running out the bridge for fear of getting tagged by debris!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is completely untrue.
No one left the starter tower until AFTER all the vehicles that were involved had come to a complete stop and EV was at the incident.
10-25-2004, 10:22 AM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Weekend race results? (RexRacer19)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RexRacer19 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was right near the gas pumps when it happened. The noise was awful as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Heck, I was paddocked right next to the woods and I heard the impact... Scary indeed, but I was greatly relieved when they lifted the driver from the car and he was able to walk over to the ambulance with some aide.
Heck, I was paddocked right next to the woods and I heard the impact... Scary indeed, but I was greatly relieved when they lifted the driver from the car and he was able to walk over to the ambulance with some aide.
10-25-2004, 10:28 AM
#22
Re: Weekend race results? (FLATOUTRACING)
Originally Posted by FLATOUTRACING
It wasn't all good news. In Sunday's race there was a huge crash at start finish three laps into the race. An incident in turn 1 brought out the red flag at start finish. The two leading Porsche's stopped just past start finished and pulled over. Two factory Five's came barreling down the front straight at max speed when the one in front started to brake for the flag. The one in back never saw the flag.
I got conflicting stories about what happened next, but the front FF went into the grass and whacked a tree so hard it knocked it down completely then came back on track. The car was utterly destroyed and the driver wasn't moving at all.
I got conflicting stories about what happened next, but the front FF went into the grass and whacked a tree so hard it knocked it down completely then came back on track. The car was utterly destroyed and the driver wasn't moving at all.
Just want to clarify some things since I watched the entire incident from the tower above Able and had the liberty of hearing what was coming over the net.
First, there was a pretty major incident down at T1 between a F-5 and a Mustang. Rescue-1 was on the roll for this when the call came in that there was major track blockage, "with glass everywhere and a battery." At that point (and very quickly
) a call came for a Red Flag. The leaders, two Porsche Cup cars had just entered the front straight when the flag went up at Start/Finish. Lead car went into the brakes but not too hard as to come to a controlled stop on-line, driver's left. The 2nd car was drafting, got into his brakes but looked at one point like he might tag the lead car. He pulled out to avoid contact and came to a rest driver's right, parallel w/ the lead car. Instead of having 2/3rds of the track free for EV (or even cars that blew the flag), there was now 1/3rd or less down the center lane.After these two cars came to a halt, a F-5 car came to a halt driver's left about 50ft behind the lead Porsche. After that car had come to a complete stop, the tree-bound F-5 hit the front straight. Although I could not see it from my vantage point, the red flag should have been flying at T10 before this car ever entered the turn and problably before the previous car. as well. The tree-bound car didn't get onto his brakes until very late, about 25ft before Pit-Out. Obviously, I don't know if he saw the flag at Start or if he realized that his rate of closure was just huge. I don't know if the potential track blockage caused by the two lead Porsches was an issue but decided to go left of the stationary F-5 car ahead of him. He clipped the right rear of that stationary car, removing a huge piece of fiberglass (rear quarter and trunk) and making a nice V-shape out of the stationary car's rear sway bar.
The approaching car then went thru the grass and into the trees. As Jon said, EV was there in an instant. Many were already mounted up and rolling towards T1 and it was a very short distance from Able to the accident scene.
Although I wasn't in the cockpit, IMHO, at no time was another car an impediment to that driver seeing the flag at Start/Finish. The fact that the two Porsches created their own track blockage was a problem. I got a report that MANY racers down in the carosel area blew the red flag.
When you're on track, whether you be a racer or a student, knowing what flags are is just part of the deal. You all have to look for them too. Again, I can't say for sure if it was the case here, but a simple failure to see one flag can put any one of you in harms way. Sometimes it means a DQ from a race. Big deal. Sometimes the result can be what many of you saw on Sunday.
As an aside, my student yesterday reported that his HPDE group was told that in event of a Red flag that they in all cases should pull to drivers' right, just like on the street. I was always told to stay predictable, and stay on-line when coming to a controlled stop. In speaking to a good friend who runs EV for most events at Summit and many of NASA's other events, he said that at Summit, EV drives off-line. IMHO, moving off-line in a flag condition is not predictable. In this case, two of the three racers stayed on-line and the third (who went to the right on the straight) caused his own partial blockage.
Your thoughts?
Modified by Balled S2K at 2:52 PM 10/25/2004
10-25-2004, 10:37 AM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Weekend race results? (Balled S2K)
I ALWAYS go drivers right in a Red flag, that way, there is NO debate of where the "line" is.... It should be written in law... Something un-debateable...
That way, you break the law, your out.. simple....
That way, you break the law, your out.. simple....
10-25-2004, 10:49 AM
#25
Re: Weekend race results? (Balled S2K)
Originally Posted by Balled S2K
Just want to clarify some things since I watched the entire incident from the tower above Able and had the liberty of hearing what was coming over the net.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First, there was a pretty major incident down at T1 between a F-5 and a Mustang. Rescue-1 was on the roll for this when the call came in that there was major track blockage, "with glass everywhere and a battery."</TD></TR></TABLE>
Incorrect.
Rescue 1 did NOT roll for T1 until AFTER the red flag was called for.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He pulled out to avoid contact and came to a rest driver's right, parallel w/ the lead car. Instead of having 2/3rds of the track free for EV (or even cars that blew the flag), there was now 1/3rd or less down the center lane.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Incorrect.
The white #22 Supercup Porsche stopped driver's right on the edge of the track about 100 feet from the start-finish tower. The #40 Porsche stopped on the edge of the track driver's left just before the start/finish tower.
There was enough room for not only EV to roll through but also for the #03 FFR Cobra to make it down through (out of control).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">After these two cars came to a halt, a F-5 car came to a halt driver's left about 50ft behind the lead Porsche.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Incorrect.
It was Bryan Shugg's #67 American Iron Mustang Cobra - and he was about the middle of the pit-out apron driver's right.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The tree-bound car didn't get onto his brakes until very late, about 25ft before Pit-Out.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is true.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He clipped the right rear of that stationary car, removing a huge piece of fiberglass (rear quarter and trunk) and making a nice V-shape out of the stationary car's rear sway bar.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you sure you were at Summit Point because this sure as hell didn't happen there. Here is what REALLY occurred:
#03 and #20 FFR Cobras came out of T10 accelerating onto the front straight. There was contact between the #03 and #20 FFR Cobras specifically left front of the #03 and right rear of the #20. Both went sideways. The #03 (trailing car) swerved down the straight in between the 2 Porsches and came to a controlled stop just before the first crossover. The #20 FFR Cobra skidded off into the trees on driver's left, went up the embankment and then clipped several trees.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The approaching car then went thru the grass and into the trees. As Jon said, EV was there in an instant. Many were already mounted up and rolling towards T1 and it was a very short distance from Able to the accident scene.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is true.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The fact that the two Porsches created their own track blockage was a problem. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Although from a distance the driver may have perceived it as a blockage it really wasn't.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got a report that MANY racers down in the carosel area blew the red flag.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is true - T9 specifically had a bunch.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In this case, two of the three racers stayed on-line and the third (who went to the right on the straight) caused his own partial blockage.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Incorrect.
The racing line down the front straight is driver's left. 2 cars went to driver's right. Only 1 stayed driver's left (which is on line).
In any event the rule in the CCR states that you stop your car on the side of the track to allow EV to pass you. It doesn't state which side you need to be on. I doubt Don and his crew care which side of the track you are stopped on as long as they can get past you easily.