T or F: if you're never riding your bumpstops, your shocks are good enough
08-13-2003, 11:55 AM
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T or F: if you're never riding your bumpstops, your shocks are good enough
My EF race car has H&R Race springs and KYB GR-2 shocks. Most people have a very negative opinion of these shcoks, but they were all I could afford. However, they have performed nicely for the year I''ve had them and I've never hit the bump stops. Can this be taken to mean that they have enough damping force for my springs? I know that this cannot be a universal truth, because an infinite-rate spring cannot be compressed enough to hit bumpstops on the most inadequate shock, but in the real world, is this a good measure?
08-13-2003, 12:22 PM
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Re: T or F: if you're never riding your bumpstops, your shocks are good enough (Civic44)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civic44 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">....Can this be taken to mean that they have enough damping force for my springs? I know that this cannot be a universal truth, because an infinite-rate spring cannot be compressed enough to hit bumpstops on the most inadequate shock, but in the real world, is this a good measure?</TD></TR></TABLE>
nope. the fact that you've never hit your bumpstops might be an indication of too much compression damping, sufficiently stiff springs, something in the suspension binding, or simply a by-product of underdriving the car.
a shocks job is not to keep you off your bumpstops, so using that as a measure of your shock's performance is useless. a shocks job is much more precise dynamic then that. the kyb's may work just fine for you, your car, your springs, your tires, and your driving, but that doesn't mean they are the best. not necessarily the worst either. you have to decide if your shocks aren't performing to your expectations and if it is worth it to you to spend the money required to buy something better. i found that the SPSS valving on my koni's was significantly better then the standard ots valving, even though the ots valving wasn't very bad at all. unfortunately i changed too much other stuff at the same time to quantify any improvements so i might have a bit of the "i spent a butt-load of money, these things better be faster!" syndrom going on too.
fwiw, i took a short drive in a car with the AD coil-overs. it was a non-competitive drive but i still got a bit of a feel for those shocks. imo, my koni's felt better, but shenefield feels opposite of that.
i suppose as long as the tire remains in contact with the road, any small differences would just come down to driver preference.
nate
nope. the fact that you've never hit your bumpstops might be an indication of too much compression damping, sufficiently stiff springs, something in the suspension binding, or simply a by-product of underdriving the car.
a shocks job is not to keep you off your bumpstops, so using that as a measure of your shock's performance is useless. a shocks job is much more precise dynamic then that. the kyb's may work just fine for you, your car, your springs, your tires, and your driving, but that doesn't mean they are the best. not necessarily the worst either. you have to decide if your shocks aren't performing to your expectations and if it is worth it to you to spend the money required to buy something better. i found that the SPSS valving on my koni's was significantly better then the standard ots valving, even though the ots valving wasn't very bad at all. unfortunately i changed too much other stuff at the same time to quantify any improvements so i might have a bit of the "i spent a butt-load of money, these things better be faster!" syndrom going on too.
fwiw, i took a short drive in a car with the AD coil-overs. it was a non-competitive drive but i still got a bit of a feel for those shocks. imo, my koni's felt better, but shenefield feels opposite of that.
i suppose as long as the tire remains in contact with the road, any small differences would just come down to driver preference.nate
08-13-2003, 12:45 PM
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Re: T or F: if you're never riding your bumpstops, your shocks are good enough (Civic44)
False. Think of it in terms of... A spring determines how far the car will roll and the shock determines how quickly it will roll. A shock may prevent bottoming out in really quick transitions (an auto-x slalom for example), but once the car takes a set, and assuming stock shock lenght, spring stiffness and ride height will determine whether or not you will ride the bump stops.
08-13-2003, 07:50 PM
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Re: T or F: if you're never riding your bumpstops, your shocks are good enough (Civic44)
False. Hitting the bumpstops means you've overlowered the car or you're not running enough spring, or both.
08-13-2003, 07:56 PM
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Re: T or F: if you're never riding your bumpstops, your shocks are good enough (krshultz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">False. Hitting the bumpstops means you've overlowered the car or you're not running enough spring, or both.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So what does exploding CV's mean?
So what does exploding CV's mean?
08-14-2003, 08:11 AM
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Re: T or F: if you're never riding your bumpstops, your shocks are good enough (solo-x)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i suppose as long as the tire remains in contact with the road...
nate</TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh is that what shocks are for
I've been trying to find the money for shocks all year because my rear tires had a falling out with the ground. They no longer speak.
i suppose as long as the tire remains in contact with the road...nate</TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh is that what shocks are for
I've been trying to find the money for shocks all year because my rear tires had a falling out with the ground. They no longer speak.
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08-14-2003, 09:41 AM
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Re: T or F: if you're never riding your bumpstops, your shocks are good enough (robbin)
As others have mentioned, shocks produce a damping force proportional (not completely linearly) to the velocity of the suspension. This does not affect the displacement of the suspension, which is determined by the spring.
08-14-2003, 12:13 PM
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Re: T or F: if you're never riding your bumpstops, your shocks are good enough (krshultz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">False. Hitting the bumpstops means you've overlowered the car or you're not running enough spring, or both.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm about 1" or less away from my bumpstops. Depending on your setup, they can be part of the suspension, and not just a safeguard to prevent destruction of your shocks. Depends on the bumpstops and the rest of the setup.
Maybe we can get Lee to chime in here.
Warren
I'm about 1" or less away from my bumpstops. Depending on your setup, they can be part of the suspension, and not just a safeguard to prevent destruction of your shocks. Depends on the bumpstops and the rest of the setup.
Maybe we can get Lee to chime in here.
Warren
08-14-2003, 01:07 PM
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Re: T or F: if you're never riding your bumpstops, your shocks are good enough (Warren)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Warren »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Maybe we can get Lee to chime in here.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
"F" to the question posed.
We do have a chant here at work that bump stops are not necessarily evil (the really hard ones are though). Evidence of bump stop impact is not necessarily a bad thing since a some cars actually use soft bump stops as part of the working rates of springs. An example are some SUVs that are sprung softly to ride well for back seat passengers but have very long bump stops that make contact early if you ask them to carry a heavy load or trailer tongue. That way they car ride like a car or load like a truck. The VW Jetta is another example that usually has a lot of bump rubber contact as normal business.
So evidence of contact alone does not mean it's a bad thing absolutely, it depends on if they were meant to be working as part of the spring package or not.
This question is stated in the reverse asking if lack of contact means they are shocks are doing well. Those two have no relationship really. Kind of like saying "Lots of fast racecars are painted red. Does that mean that all red cars are fast?" No.
Maybe we can get Lee to chime in here.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
"F" to the question posed.
We do have a chant here at work that bump stops are not necessarily evil (the really hard ones are though). Evidence of bump stop impact is not necessarily a bad thing since a some cars actually use soft bump stops as part of the working rates of springs. An example are some SUVs that are sprung softly to ride well for back seat passengers but have very long bump stops that make contact early if you ask them to carry a heavy load or trailer tongue. That way they car ride like a car or load like a truck. The VW Jetta is another example that usually has a lot of bump rubber contact as normal business.
So evidence of contact alone does not mean it's a bad thing absolutely, it depends on if they were meant to be working as part of the spring package or not.
This question is stated in the reverse asking if lack of contact means they are shocks are doing well. Those two have no relationship really. Kind of like saying "Lots of fast racecars are painted red. Does that mean that all red cars are fast?" No.
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