opeth13

The following shock comparo is quite well known in this forum:

http://www.koni-na.com/presentations/civic/

The thing in particular I have always wondered about is the Bilstein shock used in this test. It has been debated in a couple of threads whether or not the Bilstein used in this round-up was an HD model or Sport model. It would seem fair if the model used was the Sport model, because it is the performance shock out of the two variations.

I noticed something yesterday night while looking at the following page:

http://www.koni-na.com/present....html

There is a number in the upper right hand corner of the pic: B361604. I did a google search with this number and one of the first hits was the following page:

http://howbarmotorsports.com/c...ode=4

So, its safe to assume that the shock used in the dyno comparison was a "Heavy Duty" HD Bilstein shock, which is more of a mild alternative upgrade to the oem shocks. I would really love to see the Sports compared with the rest of the shocks in this line up.

Now I'll get to the point. I have a set of slightly used Bilstein Sports, for an Integra ITR, lying in my room. I would be willing to pay for round-trip shipping for a front and rear shock if someone would be interested in putting them on a shock dyno and posting the results.

Think about it, if the Bilstein HD's are nearly identical to the Koni Yellow's (with the Yellows set to nearly full soft), and the HD's low speed bump valving is even a bit more aggressive, wouldn't you guys (the RR/A community) be interested in seeing where the sportier Sports stand? So, my offer stands. PM me if interested in dynoing the shocks.

davidnyc

I think you can IM CRX Lee ? I think he works for Koni.

opeth13

I IMed Lee yesterday, I haven't received a response yet. IM's were acting funny a couple of weeks ago on Honda-Tech, I don't know if the issue has been resolved.

slammed_93_hatch

he is away on business alot, and was just out at an endruo race a this weekend

Jer

very interesting. i was under the impression that dyno was of a sport model but after looking on the bilstein website, that part number is absolutely for a front right HD strut.

im really curious to how the sports compare considering i have sports on my civic.

thawley

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he is away on business alot, and was just out at an endruo race a this weekend</TD></TR></TABLE>

I doubt we'll hear much from Lee until after the SEMA show next week. He and the entire aftermarket industry are going to be pretty much "unavailable" for the next few weeks...

Thawley

The Internet Tough Guy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">very interesting. i was under the impression that dyno was of a sport model but after looking on the bilstein website, that part number is absolutely for a front right HD strut.

im really curious to how the sports compare considering i have sports on my civic.</TD></TR></TABLE>

your car felt much better DAMPED* then mine does with the yellows when i drove it out to beaver. but i have a front sway bar and all those poly bushings, so that's probably part of the reason why my car has a noticeably harsher ride with slightly softer springs.


Modified by jwn7 at 2:45 AM 10/26/2004

bb6h22a

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opeth13 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Think about it, if the Bilstein HD's are nearly identical to the Koni Yellow's (with the Yellows set to nearly full soft), and the HD's low speed bump valving is even a bit more aggressive, wouldn't you guys (the RR/A community) be interested in seeing where the sportier Sports stand? So, my offer stands. PM me if interested in dynoing the shocks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Forgive me, but what would we reap? More low speed dampening? An alternative to koni yellows for our suspension setups, etc.?

bad-monkey

it's only marginally relevant, but someone's doing some comparison shock dyno testing over at the 'tex.

koni vs. bilstein TC vs. OEM VW vs. bilstein sports etc.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1648157

the valvings and design is totally different, but it's a start...

Tyson

before you guys continue trying to talk smart about suspension, its DAMPING, not dampening. its like saying "i loosen my keys".

CRX Lee

I am sorry that I have not responded to all of my IMs yet after being gone most of last week. I get a large number of IMS and emails and cannot get to every one immediately. I have been at home and not asleep for less than three hours total since last Tuesday night and my wife and child get mad when I just come home and get on the computer.

Yes, the Bilstein damper tested is an HD unit. This has been discussed before and there has been no effort to make it seem like it was a Sport (the part number is right there). The reason that it was selected is that it was the only Bilstein shock that they offered for the '92-'95 Civic/ '94-'01 Integra (non-Type R), there was then and is still now no Bilstein Sport listed for that car. When you do a fair comparison, you need to go by what you can buy for the car. Also, these tests were run in early Spring 1997 except for the KYB AGX which was added later as it didn't come out onn the market until around 1999 or 2000 (thus the difference in the graph background color as there was a dyno software change).

I see now that Bilstein has added a Sport option for the '96-00 Civic and changed the HD part number (don't know why) and also lists a Type R shock. There is still no option listed to the HD for the '92-95 Civic or '94-01 Integra GSR, etc.

I would be happy to dyno the Type R Bilstein Sports that you have and really about any other brand or model of dampers within reason in the name of data comparisons. Please ship them with a cover letter including all pertinent info to:

KONI North America
ATTN: Lee Grimes
1961A International Way
Hebron, KY 41048

As Thawley mentioned, I am out all next week at SEMA and have a very heavy business travel schedule so I will get them tested as soon as I can work them in.

Jer

sports are available by getting a set of neuspeed coilovers for a 92+ civic. they have threaded bodies, but are the sport model valving and have the shortened stroke with the slightly larger diameter rod.

then you just have to change out the junk springs for something good. ive been running 475f 600r on mine and although they feel a little under damped on rough PA roads ( pa turnpike and such), they feel fine on track and at autox.

bb6h22a

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">before you guys continue trying to talk smart about suspension, its DAMPING, not dampening. its like saying "i loosen my keys".</TD></TR></TABLE>

Try not to dampen your shorts, cause it's putting a damper on my "talking smart about suspensions."

opeth13

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Please ship them with a cover letter including all pertinent info to:</TD></TR></TABLE>

This kind of confused me. What info should there be on the cover letter exactly? I'm going to package the shocks tonight after work and send them out in the morning. I appreciate what you do. BTW, I IMed you again but I don't know if the IM's are working.

ShaunRR

This might be interesting.

slammed_93_hatch

just want to point something out, he said he is gona be gona for a while and not be around, so you might not get your damper back for awhile.

opeth13

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just want to point something out, he said he is gona be gona for a while and not be around, so you might not get your damper back for awhile.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its no biggie, I've got time. I'm currently using Koni Yellows on my car. I was planning on selling these. I'd rather keep them and see how they compare. They are much newer than the Koni's I am using.

Stinkycheezmonky

"Pertinent Info" means name, address, etc. so he knows who and where to send the shocks back to.

civicrr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"Pertinent Info" means name, address, etc. so he knows who and where to send the shocks back to.</TD></TR></TABLE>

it also means what the shocks are there for.....

Stinkycheezmonky

Good point, though I'd assume he would know, given that I THINK they don't rebuild Bilsteins or anything.

MechE00

Yeah, but if he's got a busy-as-hell week(s) coming up...
#1 he might not remember this whole thing when he first sees them..
#2 someone else might receive them instead of Lee, not know what the heck they are there for, move them out of the way, forget about them and forget to tell Lee they ever came in.
#3 who knows.. it's always good to be as helpful as possible, when someone you only know by the internet is doing you a favor...

I'd say put everything on there so he can know who, what, and why after a month when he's forgotten everything.. plus contact information, return shipping information, etc. so it's not a pain to hunt down once it comes time to send the stuff back.