I drive an 88 hatch in road racing. I have a limited budget and am currently using KYB GR-2 shocks with H&R race springs. I picked up some used ITR shocks really cheap and would like to use the rears as I think they're better than the KYB (ITR and 88 Civic have the same shock design). For the fronts, I'm hesitating between the Bilstein (I don't really know the models, but I know there's one that costs quite a bit less than Koni), the Illumina and the AGX. Is Illumina worth the extra monay over AGX? Should I just stick with what I have? It's not that bad... I like the way the car handles on the track even though I have more body roll than my opponents. A fellow racer who runs Tein's on his CRX rode in my car and could not believe how comfortable it was. I took that as sort of an insult.

I really can't afford Koni. I want the best bang for the buck. Do I already have it?Future upgrades may include GC's, but not with insane rates as I've grown accustomed to this soft setup. What to do?

 

If you buy bilstein(say HD)...later on down the road if you decide to rebuild/revalve for stiffer rates you can, so it will save you money in the long run.

There isn't much diff from what I could tell from illumina and agx they can handle about the same rates. But Tokico is better with their warrenties then KYB.

If you are comfortable with your setup now then why change it?

I'd pick a agx/illumina over a stock valved bilstein anyday. But I'd also pick a set of revalved bilsteins with GC over a set of tein ha or ss.

 

i'd rather ride on stock suspension than kyb's...they suck *** on any honda or acura....i saved up for a really nice setup that works great i bought the apexi world sports coilovers....but if you can get the koni's or tokico's...i can get you a good deal on them!

 

What kinda rates can the World Sports handle?

 

I don't think you'd be happy with the stock Bilstein HDs on a track, as I doubt they would dampen your H&R race springs. I used a set of HDs with H&R OE springs, which are softer than race, and the shocks barely handled these springs. A little too bouncy IMO, and a good amount of body roll. I put on ITR shocks and the ride felt much more controlled.

The stock HDs would've been nice with stock GSR springs for street daily driving. Revalved Bilsteins are a different story. I've heard nothing but good things about those, but they will cost more than Konis after you get them revalved.

I saw some Bisltein SP for ITR (same rear LCAs) on the classifieds board not too long ago. Those are stiffer but I don't know by how much.

 

the shocks won't control your total amount of roll. shocks only control how _quickly_ the car rolls. the bilstein hd's are pretty nice, and you could match a set of gc's with them and raise your spring rate a bit which will reduce your body roll. they aren't as stiff as koni's but they do a good job. you could safely run about 400lb springs with those shocks and have no problems. however, the adjustability of the koni's or tokico's is very valuable when tuning the rate of roll at one end of the car when you don't want to change the ride height.

 

Vitt1, are you runing ITR shocks on all 4 corners on an 88-91 Civic? I have all 4 ITR shocks, but I thought the fronts were too tall and was thus planning on using only the rears... Otherwise, it looks like it will be Tokico or KYB AGX, since I can't afford to re-valve Bilsteins.

 

No, I'm running ITR shocks on a GSR, which is heavier than a civic, and the ride IS more controlled than with the HDs on the same springs. I didn't realize that the fronts didn't fit in a Civic.

I guess I should have said that there is considerable body soon as you corner.
If you use HDs on 400 lb springs, you are riding on springs IMO. Yeah, less or little body roll, but I don't believe you'll have any dampening effect. I will revalve the Bisltens and use with GC coilovers about 475lb, but would never consider using the HDs stock for anything even close to those spring rates.

But as mentioned above, if you're happy with your set up and are competitive, why change? Also, the Bilsteins are monotube design, and as little as I know about shock design, isn't it possible they may not be a good match for the rear shocks? Shocks are supposed to work in sink between rear and front, so you want at least something similar. It may come down to trial and error, and could end up costing more. perhaps you should wait until you're close to buying the GC coilovers, then invest in a good set (4) of shocks.

 

Like I said, I like the ride, but I don't know if I really am competitive. I've only done two races. In the first, I was way off the pace, but there were too many variables: it was my first ever race, first time at that track, i had Hankook tires and the other guy with a Civic had Hoosier: 5 seconds per lap.

2nd race, Watkins Glen: 2 seconds off the guy's pace in dry qualifying, I had no experience there and qualifying was only my second session ever on that track. I finished 1 second behind him in race, but that was in the rain. The car handles well in the rain, but that sounds typical of a softly sprung car.

I guess I should get a real pro to drive the car and tell me objectively if it handles.

 

Have you ever run shannonville? What kinda times do you run there?

What kind of hankooks? Z2000?

 

leave it alone and drive more. if you keep changing things, you won't know if the driver improved or the car improved, or worse, the driver improved a lot but the car got a little worse.

nate-who doesn't follow his own advice.

 

I ran Shannonville at my first ever event. My best lap was a 2:17 and the class winner was in the 2:12's with his Civic. The tires were 185-60-13 Hankook Z2000. Since then I have changed the final drive to a 4.25 (which the other guy already had), which must be a 1-2 second advantage per lap as well. What kind of times do you run there and what is your setup?


[Modified by Civic44, 2:20 AM 12/30/2002]

 

You must be running the full track with that time...I only have times for protrack: 1:19.03

I have a 89 civ with a si motor(115hp) and valved bilsteins with 900r and 650f with a type-r rear bar and no front bar... 0 camber in the rear with 2.5neg camber in the front
I ran the 185-60-13 z2000 before
then I went to 185-60-14 a032r
then 205-50-15 RA1

I used to run KYB AGX with ractive sleeves and ers springs 650R and 450F
650 was a bit too much for the rear agx but it handled ok not great but ok.But I thought This was a great set-up. But the rear was underdampend for 650.

I have some incar video from full track (using the windows Media player clock) it looks like I'm running about that 2:17 in traffic(stop/go stop/go...stop/go)lol those pesky type-r's messing me up! I could probaly beat that 2:12 if I don't have to back off...you'll know when I'm backing off as its so loud(don't wanna hit him). http://www3.sympatico.ca/vivekp/type-r2.wmv

If you are interested I have 2 front bilstein HD's from a 94 teg they will have to be shortened and revalved ( i think one is blown) plus you will have to get some teg front forks to run em. I'm looking for $50 for the 2 and I have 2 450lbs ers springs I'm looking for $50 for those too. canadian $$ of course


[Modified by 89civicdx, 8:40 PM 12/29/2002]


[Modified by 89civicdx, 9:12 PM 12/29/2002]