RSX VS SI
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From: chicago
If both k20a2/z1 and k20z3 are almost the same how come the k20a2/z1 engine will cost way more to obtain for a swap? Which one would you recommend for a EM1?( the only reason i'm thinking about getting a k20 is because the low end tq on the Em1 is not that high.)
Last edited by lamboextreme; Nov 30, 2008 at 06:11 PM.
Honda-Tech Member
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From: Maricopa County
Because you have to change crap on the Z3, and you have to modify the Z3 Transmission so the VSS will work, the Z1 produces more brake HP and both of the engine are more swap freindly than the Z3.
You have to buy more stuff to make a Z3 swap work for you, like a throytle body and sensors. Like I said the VSS in the Z3 swap isn't the same as A2/Z1. Also I think you have to do a mod on the Z1 trans to get the proper VSS signal.
You have to buy more stuff to make a Z3 swap work for you, like a throytle body and sensors. Like I said the VSS in the Z3 swap isn't the same as A2/Z1. Also I think you have to do a mod on the Z1 trans to get the proper VSS signal.
be professional
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
SCCA classing is absolute bullshit for ALL HONDAS except completely stock ones that are slow. Stock 92 Civic Si being the fastest of the slow hondas in a long list.. .
Midwest SCCA finally re-classed the TEG ITR in a new class ITR. It was previously in ITE which is just ****ing retarded putting it up against turbo porsches and vipers.. . SCCA has no love for Honda b/c it doesn't want to keep up with all the differences in makes and models and swaps and power mods.. .
SCCA's terrible classing even crosses over into Autocross where the 06+ Stock Civic Si has to be in STX b/c of the LSD which given all mods to max classing even Randy Pobst couldn't drive into a Nationals and win.
Midwest SCCA finally re-classed the TEG ITR in a new class ITR. It was previously in ITE which is just ****ing retarded putting it up against turbo porsches and vipers.. . SCCA has no love for Honda b/c it doesn't want to keep up with all the differences in makes and models and swaps and power mods.. .
SCCA's terrible classing even crosses over into Autocross where the 06+ Stock Civic Si has to be in STX b/c of the LSD which given all mods to max classing even Randy Pobst couldn't drive into a Nationals and win.
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From: AZ, United States
any why is that?
As far as what I've seen, the Honda crowd has always had a hard time with SCCA classing. Classed and reclassed and missclassed.
Ask Budman on here if his ~2650lb with driver ITR was rightly classed in ITE??? Yeah, he could have turbo'd it and put widebody front fenders on to try to compete but thats not the point, his car with 200 crank HP from the factory was tossed into ITE.. . It is in ITR now which is cool and that class has promise for Hondas.
I'm pretty sure they've dumped the Si into ITE but after doing a search, I can't come to a conclusion. Doesn't make any sense to me. The Civic Si has a slight edge over the ITR but not much. http://www.nocoastracing.com/garage/...ideo/index.php
The RSX-S is in ITR which leads me to believe they stuck the Si in ITE b/c it has an advantage over the RSX-S with slightly better suspension and LSD.
As far as what I've seen, the Honda crowd has always had a hard time with SCCA classing. Classed and reclassed and missclassed.
Ask Budman on here if his ~2650lb with driver ITR was rightly classed in ITE??? Yeah, he could have turbo'd it and put widebody front fenders on to try to compete but thats not the point, his car with 200 crank HP from the factory was tossed into ITE.. . It is in ITR now which is cool and that class has promise for Hondas.
I'm pretty sure they've dumped the Si into ITE but after doing a search, I can't come to a conclusion. Doesn't make any sense to me. The Civic Si has a slight edge over the ITR but not much. http://www.nocoastracing.com/garage/...ideo/index.php
The RSX-S is in ITR which leads me to believe they stuck the Si in ITE b/c it has an advantage over the RSX-S with slightly better suspension and LSD.
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From: Banbury, UK
im gonna have to agree with you sometimes its not the car at all some people dont know how to drive their cars.. my old friend has a evo 8 and he had never seen someone launch his car like i did also my brother inlaw has a sentra se-r and he was amazed at my skills
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Unless all you ever do is accelerate at full throttle from a roll in a straight line all day long, this shouldn't even be a comparison. The '06+ Civic Si has a limited slip differential and the suspension is a vast improvement on the abomination bolted to the underside of an RSX (even with the '05-06 revisions).
The only reason I could ever justify buying an RSX over a Civic Si is for the versatility of the liftback body style. It's a real shame that Civics are no longer available as hatchbacks and that Honda doesn't offer a liftback coupe any longer.
The only reason I could ever justify buying an RSX over a Civic Si is for the versatility of the liftback body style. It's a real shame that Civics are no longer available as hatchbacks and that Honda doesn't offer a liftback coupe any longer.
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From: AZ, United States
Cuz the realtime racing says so ;-)
bad camber gain, need huge spring rates to be an acceptable FWD race setup. Defis the US suspension setup characteristics.
Honda went away from spring over shock for a reason in the rear though. I don't have a good answer for that though.
I read an article in some magazine that the Chasis of the New Civic Type R 4dr is suppose to be like 50% stiffer than the previous Integra R. Can't remember which ITR it is though.. . I think it's the DC2 not the DC5 though.
bad camber gain, need huge spring rates to be an acceptable FWD race setup. Defis the US suspension setup characteristics.
Honda went away from spring over shock for a reason in the rear though. I don't have a good answer for that though.
I read an article in some magazine that the Chasis of the New Civic Type R 4dr is suppose to be like 50% stiffer than the previous Integra R. Can't remember which ITR it is though.. . I think it's the DC2 not the DC5 though.
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Joined: Nov 2008
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From: ATLANTA GA
K20Z3
This inline-4 cylinder internal combustion engine is found in the US market Honda Civic Si (2006+) & Canadian market Acura CSX Type-S. It has an aluminium block with an aluminium head, and a bore and stroke of 86 mm x 86 mm, resulting in a 2.0 Liter displacement.
* Found in:
o 2006-2008 Honda Civic Si (FG2 - Coupe & FA5 - Sedan), 2007 Acura CSX Type-S
+ Displacement : 1,998 cc (121.9 cu in)
+ Compression : 11.0:1
+ Power: 197 bhp (147 kW) @ 7800 rpm (sae NET Rev 8/04)
+ Torque: 139 ft·lbf (189 N·m) @ 6200 rpm (sae NET Rev 8/04)
+ Redline: 8100 rpm
+ i-VTEC Engagement Window:5800 RPM
K20A3
* Found In
o 2002-2005 Honda Civic Si
o 2002-2004 Acura RSX
+ Displacement: 1,998 cc (121.9 cu in)
+ Compression: 9.8:1
+ Power: 160(120 kW) @ 6500 rpm
+ Torque: 142 lb·ft (193 N·m)* (191 N·m) @ 4000 rpm
+ Redline: 6800 rpm
+ (Horsepower and torque calculations reflect new SAE J1349 procedures revised August 2004)
* (The intake manifold is often credited with being responsible for the difference in HP between these two variants. The Civic Si being equipped with an aluminium intake manifold, and the RSX Base model equipped with a plastic version.
This inline-4 cylinder internal combustion engine is found in the US market Honda Civic Si (2006+) & Canadian market Acura CSX Type-S. It has an aluminium block with an aluminium head, and a bore and stroke of 86 mm x 86 mm, resulting in a 2.0 Liter displacement.
* Found in:
o 2006-2008 Honda Civic Si (FG2 - Coupe & FA5 - Sedan), 2007 Acura CSX Type-S
+ Displacement : 1,998 cc (121.9 cu in)
+ Compression : 11.0:1
+ Power: 197 bhp (147 kW) @ 7800 rpm (sae NET Rev 8/04)
+ Torque: 139 ft·lbf (189 N·m) @ 6200 rpm (sae NET Rev 8/04)
+ Redline: 8100 rpm
+ i-VTEC Engagement Window:5800 RPM
K20A3
* Found In
o 2002-2005 Honda Civic Si
o 2002-2004 Acura RSX
+ Displacement: 1,998 cc (121.9 cu in)
+ Compression: 9.8:1
+ Power: 160(120 kW) @ 6500 rpm
+ Torque: 142 lb·ft (193 N·m)* (191 N·m) @ 4000 rpm
+ Redline: 6800 rpm
+ (Horsepower and torque calculations reflect new SAE J1349 procedures revised August 2004)
* (The intake manifold is often credited with being responsible for the difference in HP between these two variants. The Civic Si being equipped with an aluminium intake manifold, and the RSX Base model equipped with a plastic version.
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From: cali
the ITR is classed in ITR, it was never classed before because people said that the head was hand ported from the factory (something that isn't allowed), so that is why it was ran in ITE.
FYI there is no classification for ITE, you can run anything in that class. And it is a regional only class, like ITO and ITU.
The issues with the RSX are due to bad geometry. Not just the camber stuff, they have some really bad bump steer, and rear steer issues.
It is not because realtime said so, it is because that is the way it is. (run a bump steer gauge on it and tell me it isn't there.)
The 06+ civic is better, but it has a really bad wheel rate for the spring as it sits very far inboard, and off of the strut.
FYI there is no classification for ITE, you can run anything in that class. And it is a regional only class, like ITO and ITU.
The issues with the RSX are due to bad geometry. Not just the camber stuff, they have some really bad bump steer, and rear steer issues.
It is not because realtime said so, it is because that is the way it is. (run a bump steer gauge on it and tell me it isn't there.)
The 06+ civic is better, but it has a really bad wheel rate for the spring as it sits very far inboard, and off of the strut.
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way2much
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