RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock
10-23-2003, 12:29 PM
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RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock
10-23-2003, 12:40 PM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (celica73)
I'm thinking what I'm sure you're thinking. Why the Type S and not the Celica GT-S?
--Karl (scratching head)
--Karl (scratching head)
10-23-2003, 12:45 PM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (krshultz)
I keep telling you guys they smoke all the crack before they do something like this. Do you believe me now???
Modified by MaddMatt at 2:05 PM 10/23/2003
Modified by MaddMatt at 2:05 PM 10/23/2003
10-23-2003, 01:52 PM
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makes no sense to me
the bb1 and the dc5 get to go to GS, but the BB6 stays in DS? how does that work? both cars are technically "faster" than the bb6...
oh well, not too much of a big deal for me yet b/c i'll spend 2004 outclassed in STX.
oh well, not too much of a big deal for me yet b/c i'll spend 2004 outclassed in STX.
10-23-2003, 03:48 PM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (celica73)
They even got the model years for the Lude wrong, 93-97... 
BB1 was 92-96 and BB6 was 97+
I'm guessing the BB6 stays because of the SH and it's ATTS. There is no way in hell even an SH would keep up with the ITRs. By the looks of it the Lude is doomed to rot away in DS, never to be competitive. Bah, come to think of it, it prolly wouldn't even be that competitive in GS either...
Also note that they withdrew the 330 move... Hmmm... Will be interesting next year. Carl, u reading this?
BB1 was 92-96 and BB6 was 97+I'm guessing the BB6 stays because of the SH and it's ATTS. There is no way in hell even an SH would keep up with the ITRs. By the looks of it the Lude is doomed to rot away in DS, never to be competitive. Bah, come to think of it, it prolly wouldn't even be that competitive in GS either...
Also note that they withdrew the 330 move... Hmmm... Will be interesting next year. Carl, u reading this?
10-24-2003, 06:59 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (krshultz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm thinking what I'm sure you're thinking. Why the Type S and not the Celica GT-S?
--Karl (scratching head)</TD></TR></TABLE>
my thoughts
GTS is 200 lbs lighter
GTS has wider wheels (IIRC)
GTS has a better suspension geometery
GTS can run -3 degrees of camber in stock class
with the GT clearly being ONE if not THE car to have in GS, I think adding the GTS would throw in a car that COULD be faster on a lot of courses.
--Karl (scratching head)</TD></TR></TABLE>
my thoughts
GTS is 200 lbs lighter
GTS has wider wheels (IIRC)
GTS has a better suspension geometery
GTS can run -3 degrees of camber in stock class
with the GT clearly being ONE if not THE car to have in GS, I think adding the GTS would throw in a car that COULD be faster on a lot of courses.
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10-24-2003, 07:15 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (PseudoRealityX)
i'm certain that the Prelude will mix things up, as well as the RSX-S, depending on how much camber you can get out of it stock.
somewhere someone said that the GT is actually faster than the GTS around an autoX?? gonna have to dig it up and confirm.
RSX will be the one to watch at the Pro's as it will have much better acceleration, but who know's if anyone is gonna compaign one?
somewhere someone said that the GT is actually faster than the GTS around an autoX?? gonna have to dig it up and confirm.
RSX will be the one to watch at the Pro's as it will have much better acceleration, but who know's if anyone is gonna compaign one?
10-24-2003, 07:15 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (PseudoRealityX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PseudoRealityX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
my thoughts
GTS is 200 lbs lighter</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, and 20 less hp and 12 fewer ft-lbs, not to mention a torque peak that is 800 rpm higher.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GTS has wider wheels (IIRC)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope, 6.5 inch wide for each, it's just the the GTS can use 15" wheels.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GTS has a better suspension geometery</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope, I would say they are virtually identical. Mac strut up front a-arm rear. Both even use some sort of passive rear steer, with toe changes in teh rear helping rotation.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GTS can run -3 degrees of camber in stock class</TD></TR></TABLE>
And the winning cars don't run more than 2 degrees. No point in having 3 degrees of camber when all it does is hurt the ability to get power to the road.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with the GT clearly being ONE if not THE car to have in GS, I think adding the GTS would throw in a car that COULD be faster on a lot of courses.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is it so clear? Cooper S, RSX-S, etc are all going to be competitors next year.
The GT is lighter than the GTS can run just as much tire as the GTS and has better low end torque than a GTS...
Yes, the GTS might be faster on some courses, but is it a bad thing that there is some diversity? If we want all the cars to be the same, then we should just throw everything but a Celica GT out of the class!
I think it was a bad call by the SCCA, but, yeah, I'm biased. How on earth do you argue that the base RSX and RSX-S belong in the same class but the base GT and GTS son't belong in the same class?
Edit: I forgot to add: The RSX also has the allowance of factory crash bolts, so you can at least get some negative camber! How much I don't know, but some. A set of 215/40-16 Hoosiers and some revalved Koni's and the RSX (base and S) really are contenders.
Scott
my thoughts
GTS is 200 lbs lighter</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, and 20 less hp and 12 fewer ft-lbs, not to mention a torque peak that is 800 rpm higher.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GTS has wider wheels (IIRC)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope, 6.5 inch wide for each, it's just the the GTS can use 15" wheels.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GTS has a better suspension geometery</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope, I would say they are virtually identical. Mac strut up front a-arm rear. Both even use some sort of passive rear steer, with toe changes in teh rear helping rotation.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GTS can run -3 degrees of camber in stock class</TD></TR></TABLE>
And the winning cars don't run more than 2 degrees. No point in having 3 degrees of camber when all it does is hurt the ability to get power to the road.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with the GT clearly being ONE if not THE car to have in GS, I think adding the GTS would throw in a car that COULD be faster on a lot of courses.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is it so clear? Cooper S, RSX-S, etc are all going to be competitors next year.
The GT is lighter than the GTS can run just as much tire as the GTS and has better low end torque than a GTS...
Yes, the GTS might be faster on some courses, but is it a bad thing that there is some diversity? If we want all the cars to be the same, then we should just throw everything but a Celica GT out of the class!
I think it was a bad call by the SCCA, but, yeah, I'm biased. How on earth do you argue that the base RSX and RSX-S belong in the same class but the base GT and GTS son't belong in the same class?
Edit: I forgot to add: The RSX also has the allowance of factory crash bolts, so you can at least get some negative camber! How much I don't know, but some. A set of 215/40-16 Hoosiers and some revalved Koni's and the RSX (base and S) really are contenders.
Scott
10-24-2003, 07:35 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (jsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They even got the model years for the Lude wrong, 93-97... BB1 was 92-96 and BB6 was 97+
I'm guessing the BB6 stays because of the SH and it's ATTS. There is no way in hell even an SH would keep up with the ITRs. By the looks of it the Lude is doomed to rot away in DS, never to be competitive. Bah, come to think of it, it prolly wouldn't even be that competitive in GS either...
Also note that they withdrew the 330 move... Hmmm... Will be interesting next year. Carl, u reading this?</TD></TR></TABLE>
you're right, of course. i guess on a national level even the fastest bb6's with the best drivers are never going to compete in DS, STS, or STX. (or even SP or SM for that matter) though if they start to split ST into classes, i think there could be a chance...all i know is that ATTS is not a OEM LSD, or AWD, and it sucks that us base owners have to suffer just because of it
oh well, i guess i'll just have to keep on running my beloved BB6 until i can find a 2002 tii in decent shape and get that up to spec...
BB1 was 92-96 and BB6 was 97+I'm guessing the BB6 stays because of the SH and it's ATTS. There is no way in hell even an SH would keep up with the ITRs. By the looks of it the Lude is doomed to rot away in DS, never to be competitive. Bah, come to think of it, it prolly wouldn't even be that competitive in GS either...
Also note that they withdrew the 330 move... Hmmm... Will be interesting next year. Carl, u reading this?</TD></TR></TABLE>
you're right, of course. i guess on a national level even the fastest bb6's with the best drivers are never going to compete in DS, STS, or STX. (or even SP or SM for that matter) though if they start to split ST into classes, i think there could be a chance...all i know is that ATTS is not a OEM LSD, or AWD, and it sucks that us base owners have to suffer just because of it
oh well, i guess i'll just have to keep on running my beloved BB6 until i can find a 2002 tii in decent shape and get that up to spec...
10-24-2003, 08:06 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (bad-monkey)
Whatever...Ever heard of Ricardo Quinonez? 6th in GS (now DS) in 2000. Only a second off Fauth who won the class! It was right there with the Type R's and other cars in the class. The BB6 *is* competitive in DS, there just aren't any really good drivers piloting them right now.
I've included the URL to the results so you can verify. You really can win in a Lude if you are a good enough driver.
http://www.scca.org/amateur/so....html
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you're right, of course. i guess on a national level even the fastest bb6's with the best drivers are never going to compete in DS, STS, or STX. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I've included the URL to the results so you can verify. You really can win in a Lude if you are a good enough driver.
http://www.scca.org/amateur/so....html
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you're right, of course. i guess on a national level even the fastest bb6's with the best drivers are never going to compete in DS, STS, or STX. </TD></TR></TABLE>
10-24-2003, 08:37 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (PseudoRealityX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PseudoRealityX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GTS can run -3 degrees of camber in stock class</TD></TR></TABLE>
The FSM actually specifies that much camber? I thought alignment had to be within stock parameters (as defined in the FSM)?
The FSM actually specifies that much camber? I thought alignment had to be within stock parameters (as defined in the FSM)?
10-24-2003, 08:42 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (typer_801)
Yes, I remember Ricardo' performance a few years ago. I was just a rookie starting autoxing in my SH. But I think the level of competition has gone up a few notches since then, and there were no 330s or WRXs or the Mazdaspeed (which i'm sure we'll see more of in the future).
ITR vs SH? ITR has the same power on paper (prolly more since most SH dynos i've seen are like 155whp on a good day and ITRs more like 165). Weighs 400lbs less. Same brakes. Stiffer suspension. Real LSD. Better gearing. Can run 225-45-15s. No contest.
ITR vs SH? ITR has the same power on paper (prolly more since most SH dynos i've seen are like 155whp on a good day and ITRs more like 165). Weighs 400lbs less. Same brakes. Stiffer suspension. Real LSD. Better gearing. Can run 225-45-15s. No contest.
10-24-2003, 09:09 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (Crack Monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The FSM actually specifies that much camber? I thought alignment had to be within stock parameters (as defined in the FSM)?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The FSM allows for two camber bolts, which if oriented correctly, can get 3° of camber.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Edit: I forgot to add: The RSX also has the allowance of factory crash bolts, so you can at least get some negative camber! How much I don't know, but some.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It does? I thought Honda didn't have such an allowance (I seem to remember a RSX driver bitterly complaining about only getting a degree...)
Andy - who bets the GS winner this next year will not be a Toyota...
The FSM actually specifies that much camber? I thought alignment had to be within stock parameters (as defined in the FSM)?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The FSM allows for two camber bolts, which if oriented correctly, can get 3° of camber.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Edit: I forgot to add: The RSX also has the allowance of factory crash bolts, so you can at least get some negative camber! How much I don't know, but some.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It does? I thought Honda didn't have such an allowance (I seem to remember a RSX driver bitterly complaining about only getting a degree...)
Andy - who bets the GS winner this next year will not be a Toyota...
10-24-2003, 09:28 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (maxQ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxQ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It does? I thought Honda didn't have such an allowance (I seem to remember a RSX driver bitterly complaining about only getting a degree...)
Andy - who bets the GS winner this next year will not be a Toyota...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yup, it does. The RSX and EP3 Civic. I could probably dig up the relevant pages from the manual if anyone wants them.
Scott
Andy - who bets the GS winner this next year will not be a Toyota...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yup, it does. The RSX and EP3 Civic. I could probably dig up the relevant pages from the manual if anyone wants them.
Scott
10-24-2003, 11:19 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (maxQ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxQ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The FSM allows for two camber bolts, which if oriented correctly, can get 3° of camber. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Hmmm, I thought you were still limited to whatever the FSM gave as alignment specs - ie you could max the FSM range with the crash bolts. Or does it not actually list specs?
Hmmm, I thought you were still limited to whatever the FSM gave as alignment specs - ie you could max the FSM range with the crash bolts. Or does it not actually list specs?
10-24-2003, 11:30 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (Crack Monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Hmmm, I thought you were still limited to whatever the FSM gave as alignment specs</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, if that were true, the top 10 of every stock class at Nationals would be DSQ. I doubt very many manufacturers want everyday street cars to have 3/8" of toe-out...
I believe the rule is whatever alignment specs you can achieve with stock parts.
Hmmm, I thought you were still limited to whatever the FSM gave as alignment specs</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, if that were true, the top 10 of every stock class at Nationals would be DSQ. I doubt very many manufacturers want everyday street cars to have 3/8" of toe-out...
I believe the rule is whatever alignment specs you can achieve with stock parts.
10-24-2003, 11:31 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (Crack Monkey)
There are alignment specs in the FSM, but the rules do not require you to run within those specs.
If that were the case how many people would be able to run toe out up front (or in the rear), I don't think I've ever heard of a factory spec that calls for toe out.
Scott
If that were the case how many people would be able to run toe out up front (or in the rear), I don't think I've ever heard of a factory spec that calls for toe out.
Scott
10-24-2003, 11:36 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (jsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, I remember Ricardo' performance a few years ago. I was just a rookie starting autoxing in my SH. But I think the level of competition has gone up a few notches since then, and there were no 330s or WRXs or the Mazdaspeed (which i'm sure we'll see more of in the future).</TD></TR></TABLE>
I pulled my ITR out of retirement last year and ran some local runs against the 330s (Kevin Youngers, in fact) and won. Having also driven a 330 (Kevin's, in fact), I firmly believe that the ITR can still keep up.
David Fauth
2000 & 2001 GS Solo2 National Champion
I pulled my ITR out of retirement last year and ran some local runs against the 330s (Kevin Youngers, in fact) and won. Having also driven a 330 (Kevin's, in fact), I firmly believe that the ITR can still keep up.
David Fauth
2000 & 2001 GS Solo2 National Champion
10-24-2003, 11:53 AM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (celica73)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by celica73 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Edit: I forgot to add: The RSX also has the allowance of factory crash bolts, so you can at least get some negative camber! How much I don't know, but some.</TD></TR></TABLE>
about 2 degrees. I know somebody who has run DS with his rsx-s with the crash bolts and has around 2 degrees with the crash bolts.
about 2 degrees. I know somebody who has run DS with his rsx-s with the crash bolts and has around 2 degrees with the crash bolts.
10-24-2003, 12:23 PM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (ryan12321)
for some reason i thought that you couldn't get that much negative camber outta the RSX....hrmmm.....RSX goes back on my list of cars to look into.
10-24-2003, 03:35 PM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (DFauth)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DFauth »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I pulled my ITR out of retirement last year and ran some local runs against the 330s (Kevin Youngers, in fact) and won. Having also driven a 330 (Kevin's, in fact), I firmly believe that the ITR can still keep up.
David Fauth
2000 & 2001 GS Solo2 National Champion</TD></TR></TABLE>
Indeed the ITR can more than keep up. I was talking about the Prelude.
I pulled my ITR out of retirement last year and ran some local runs against the 330s (Kevin Youngers, in fact) and won. Having also driven a 330 (Kevin's, in fact), I firmly believe that the ITR can still keep up.
David Fauth
2000 & 2001 GS Solo2 National Champion</TD></TR></TABLE>
Indeed the ITR can more than keep up. I was talking about the Prelude.
10-24-2003, 06:56 PM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (carl_aka_carlos)
I don't have a FSM, and I haven't taken the time to call the dealer yet...does anyone know if crash bolts are specified for a '95 Prelude VTEC?
Ya know, someone else brought up a good point...225-45/15's in a V700 <u>absolutely</u> didn't work up front on my car, but that size Victoracers...hmmmm...
I think my early-season tire order just changed a little bit! Thanks, guys!
Ya know, someone else brought up a good point...225-45/15's in a V700 <u>absolutely</u> didn't work up front on my car, but that size Victoracers...hmmmm...
I think my early-season tire order just changed a little bit! Thanks, guys!
10-24-2003, 07:52 PM
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Re: RSX Type S and Prelude move to G-Stock (carl_aka_carlos)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for some reason i thought that you couldn't get that much negative camber outta the RSX....hrmmm.....RSX goes back on my list of cars to look into. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I now have some exact specs for you for the rsx-s and camber. My friend had his car up on the alignment rack today and front left was at -2.7 and front right was at -2.5 so you can get a very good ammount of camber out of the car stock with the crash bolts.
I now have some exact specs for you for the rsx-s and camber. My friend had his car up on the alignment rack today and front left was at -2.7 and front right was at -2.5 so you can get a very good ammount of camber out of the car stock with the crash bolts.