getfast

Panoz's new ALMS/LMP prototype has a Mugen-built (and maintained) V8. The car's first track time was at VIR last week, where they reportedly did "sub-1:48 laps just to get a feel for the car" according to a trusted source.

First of all... Mugen V8? Anybody know where that came from (F1 derivative? Honda-based?)

Secondly... under 1:48's, just on sorting/testing laps? That's damn quick! (The Audi R8's and Caddy LMP's reportedly did <1:42's at VIR in full Le Mans trim with pro drivers, but that was after years of development and prep, and tested as if they were in a race...)

Thirdly... the Panoz cars were contenders with various pushrod and 4-cam iterations of Ford motors. Perhaps the Mugen connection will give them something to keep up with the aging Audis this year?

Fourthly... could that car's name be any harder to pronounce correctly? Pay-nose-Moo-ghen? Pan-nose-Myou-jen?

Very curious,

Jon

Ross

It's not F1-derived at all...speaking from fuzzy memories cause I heard this a while back. I posted once about it, I think.

edit - here we go, I found it:


[Modified by Ross, 3:21 AM 3/7/2002]

Warren

Now they can start losing in 2 seriously high dollar series instead of just 1 Time will tell, but if their reliability is as bad as the F1 engine, then it will never make it through the 24 @ Le Mans.

Warren

slowSER

Hey, Mugen-Honda won four Formula 1 races! Of course, 3 of those races were in the rain (2 involved an incredible amount of carnage), so maybe they were a bit lucky.

.RJ

hmmmmmmmmm moooooooooooggen....

As for ALMS this year, they are doing a neat thing to keep spectators more up to date on whats going on. Traditionally, when watching an endurance race with 3 classes of cars running you have no idea who's winning just by watching. So they're giving each car three little LED's on the back of the car - each class of car gets a different color. And if the car is in first, one LED is on, if its in 2nd, two LED's are on, etc. Although with enduro racing there's not a ton of passing, its still a neat idea.

MaddMatt

They did say the driver did lift on the back straight for several hundred feet so he wouldn't launch off of the crest.

Willard

I have that problem with my P.O.S. ITR.

Will

Johnny Tran

i have to lift at oaktree, and coast all the way down.......my civic is just too damn fast..

4doorH22

Ross, I don't think this answers where the V8 block is derived from? Must be Honda-based I guess.

WRXRacer111

Could it be that it shares bore-centers with say, the new 4-liter V8 that Honda is putting out to go into the upcoming new NSX and also into their top-line luxury sedan?

Ponyboy

Me thinks that's exactly the case.

Well, I'm hoping anyway.

madhatter

Don't hold your breath. Honda has never been enthusiastic about putting "too much engine" into ANY of thier cars. One of the reasons why the Accord did not come with a V6 for so long. Honda's stance was "it is enough engine for that car", and they were right, but they were losing sales to Taurus and Camry due to having only 4 cyl. With the NSX, don't look for a V8 until Honda decides it is losing sales for the NSX. They still sell every one they build, so it's not likely they think that way for a while.

TypeR0207

But when you only bring 100 over or so, they BETTER all sell ......

grippgoat

Exactly. Still, though, I don't think Honda will need a V8 to get the power they need in the next gen NSX. I think they can do it with a higher-displacement V6, like 3.5L.

-Mike

4doorH22

Oh the Accords don't need sixes, just a healthy dose of DOHC VTEC
Oh, well, they're really getting porky now...

SPiFF

I would be all for a Honda V8 .. if it was high tech F1 based. Maybe 2.5L, 10,000 RPM. Otherwise, Honda has proven over and over that they can build more potent, cleaner, smaller motors then any1 else. 3.5L iVTEC V6 would be nice for the next gen NSX.

Just my $0.02.

getfast

It would have to be something like that, since by ALMS rules, the motor is/was supposed to have some relationship with a stock/production one.

Now what's this about a V8 NSX?

Jon

.RJ

The re-designed for 2004 NSX will have a V8... rumors of the 4.0L variety And honda is most likely breaking the ~280HP gentleman's agreement with the new engine as well. Hmmmm...... V8 torque in a mid-engined car. Just think of the holeshot that thing is gonna have!!!

4doorH22

Last I read, which was quite some time ago, is that the next NSX will have a 4 liter V8, and also available a higher-performance, higher-revving 3.5 liter V8, both in the vicinity of 400 HP.

getfast

Aha! Convince the FIA that it will make it into production eventually, and Mugen can use it as a basis for their current race motor. Gotta love pro racing politics.

Jon
who's still trying to figure out the V8 powered M3 racecars also

madhatter

Actually, I read that as well, but have since read info squashing that rumor. So you could take it either way.
My guess is it will still be a v6, under 280 hp, under 3200 pounds, iVTEC, and $90k. Why play a horsepower game when for 90k you can buy a 911, Viper, (almost)2 Z06's, (soon) the Ford GT40, or any number of semi-exotic sheetmetal? Honda isn't going to outgun them, so they might as well just build a better car, instead of an engine.

4doorH22

Given Honda's recent history of rather lackluster vehicles (still wonderful cars of course, but more bloated that previous iterations), it's probably a good bet that the next NSX isn't going to turn the exotic car market on its ear like it did when introduced in 1990. *sniff* What's your problem Honda?

Ponyboy

Oh yee of little faith.

NegativeLift

This story made the cover of Racecar Engineering a few issues back; once again, interesting politics

GRM Scott

The new Car & Driver (Pontiac Solstice on cover) has a kinda funny BMW ad on page 133...top half shows a great photo of the M3GTR taking a corner, inside wheel lifted from the berm (2001: We Rewrite the History Books)...bottom half is the same corner sans car...(2002: They rewrite the rule book). Little paragraph at the bottom, ends: "Sadly, we must sit out this season. We'll miss you, American Le Mans Series. We hope to be back next season, writing happier chapters."