Need some help from the mechanic guys
02-15-2006, 08:31 AM
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Need some help from the mechanic guys
Shop f*cked us over on the CRX, was originally quoted 10 hrs of labor @ $30 an hour = $300 to get all the work done. Now its suddenly $679.46 for everything. Can someone please help me break the items down into labor hours so I can tell this guy to go pound sand. (Need a reference guide if you guys can provide one.)
Water pump – antifreeze and distilled water provided.
Thermostat and Gasket
Timing belt including valve gasket cover
Clutch
2 Front Axles
Flywheel
Rear engine seal
Fuel Filter
Radiator
Flush brake system
Install new pads – please glaze rotors w/ 120 grit paper and use break in as outlined on manufacturer’s sheet (attached)
Oil & Filter change
Rear brake cylinder change and a battery tie down
Any help would be sincerely appreciated.
Sean who is now officially never taking his car to a shop he doesn't know.
Modified by 94accordsedan at 1:01 PM 2/15/2006
Water pump – antifreeze and distilled water provided.
Thermostat and Gasket
Timing belt including valve gasket cover
Clutch
2 Front Axles
Flywheel
Rear engine seal
Fuel Filter
Radiator
Flush brake system
Install new pads – please glaze rotors w/ 120 grit paper and use break in as outlined on manufacturer’s sheet (attached)
Oil & Filter change
Rear brake cylinder change and a battery tie down
Any help would be sincerely appreciated.
Sean who is now officially never taking his car to a shop he doesn't know.
Modified by 94accordsedan at 1:01 PM 2/15/2006
02-15-2006, 08:37 AM
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hmm, aside from it being more than the quote, that's a lot of work...and considering the price isn't bad?
i guess once you everything apart, some of the stuff needs to be removed anyway, like the axles for the flywheel change, w-pump/tstat/tbelt, etc. If i was a professional mechanic and wasn't so inclined to drink beer and chainsmoke while working, i'd say that's around 10-12 hours of work if there's no big issues (like crank pulley bolt seized, etc etc).
i guess once you everything apart, some of the stuff needs to be removed anyway, like the axles for the flywheel change, w-pump/tstat/tbelt, etc. If i was a professional mechanic and wasn't so inclined to drink beer and chainsmoke while working, i'd say that's around 10-12 hours of work if there's no big issues (like crank pulley bolt seized, etc etc).
02-15-2006, 08:41 AM
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Well he quoted us $300 - $350 for everything but the radiator and rear brake cylinders. Those together can't take him another 9 hrs.
Problem is that he didn't inform us that the work was going to go beyond the quote despite being told specifically to call us if anything seems problematic.
Problem is that he didn't inform us that the work was going to go beyond the quote despite being told specifically to call us if anything seems problematic.
02-15-2006, 08:45 AM
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Not sure about how many hours, but I can tell you that is an excellent price. Shops usually charge $350 just for the timing belt. I'm not saying it was right to quote you one thing and then charge another, but its a great price if he did a good job.
02-15-2006, 08:49 AM
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Re: (bosco500)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bosco500 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not sure about how many hours, but I can tell you that is an excellent price. Shops usually charge $350 just for the timing belt. I'm not saying it was right to quote you one thing and then charge another, but its a great price if he did a good job.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have no problem paying it... if it actually took that long. Why would you tell some a rate, then say something twice as much.
I have no problem paying it... if it actually took that long. Why would you tell some a rate, then say something twice as much.
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02-15-2006, 08:54 AM
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Re: (MattP)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MattP »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about parts? Are they included in the $679?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No... we purchased everything... around $800 in parts that we gave to the guy.
See there is my problem... we gave every single part to him. His quote of $670 is just for the hours he worked.
No... we purchased everything... around $800 in parts that we gave to the guy.
See there is my problem... we gave every single part to him. His quote of $670 is just for the hours he worked.
02-15-2006, 08:58 AM
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Re: (94accordsedan)
I think it maybe VA (and other states, not sure about WV) law that you can't charge more then like 15% of the orignal quote. Now, the fact that you ADDED items, that legally voided the last quote, so he submitted another. But, for the work, its not too bad of a price. Why don't you put a clutch in while your at it?
02-15-2006, 09:00 AM
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Clutch was in that estimate... it doesn't make an ounce of sense to me why the guy wouldn't call to tell us the estimate was wrong. The work was done in PA, not sure if the 15% rule applies there.
02-15-2006, 09:03 AM
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Re: (94accordsedan)
While it sucks that the labor was twice what you were quoted, I think it is not too far off the time taken to do the work.
Perhaps ask him if he is using the individual flat rates for replacing the individual parts- a lot of the same work is done to replace the clutch, rear main seal, and half shafts. He may have added the labor for the same work together...
Replacing the timing belt is a fair bit of work by itself on the other side of the engine.
Perhaps ask him if he is using the individual flat rates for replacing the individual parts- a lot of the same work is done to replace the clutch, rear main seal, and half shafts. He may have added the labor for the same work together...
Replacing the timing belt is a fair bit of work by itself on the other side of the engine.
02-15-2006, 09:04 AM
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Re: (shakedown94)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shakedown94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">motors guide says 6.1 on rear main seal
wp/belt/etc. 4.2
axles overlap with rear main seal
the rest does not add up to 9 hrs.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is there an online labor hr calculator that I can sort of use as a reference when I talk to the guy. (I'll try and call a few shops and see if they'll let me look at the relevant pages.)
When the clutch was done on my car it was $200 in labor @$65 an hr. A 88 CRX can't possibly take longer.
wp/belt/etc. 4.2
axles overlap with rear main seal
the rest does not add up to 9 hrs.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Is there an online labor hr calculator that I can sort of use as a reference when I talk to the guy. (I'll try and call a few shops and see if they'll let me look at the relevant pages.)
When the clutch was done on my car it was $200 in labor @$65 an hr. A 88 CRX can't possibly take longer.
02-15-2006, 09:07 AM
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Re: Need some help from the mechanic guys (94accordsedan)
$30 an hour is CHEAP! To answer your question AllData quotes 5.5 hours for the rear main seal. Most of the other stuff should overlap with that, you're going to have to pull the axles, trans, timing belt, flywheel, and clutch to get to it so you shouldn't be looking at more time to install that stuff. I'd probably charge .5 to put in the water pump while I was in there and another .5 for the valve cover gasket. Replacing both wheel cylinders pays 2.5 hours and includes bleeding. Not sure how much for a full flush, maybe 1.0? 1.4 for the front brakes, .3 for the oil change, and 1.7 for the radiator.
Looks like I'd charge 13.1 dor the entire job going off AllData time. See if he'll give you a breakdown of time for different stuff. It sounds like he may have charged you the full AllData time for all the work and not given any time back for the overlap. Good luck!
Looks like I'd charge 13.1 dor the entire job going off AllData time. See if he'll give you a breakdown of time for different stuff. It sounds like he may have charged you the full AllData time for all the work and not given any time back for the overlap. Good luck!
02-15-2006, 09:09 AM
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Re: Need some help from the mechanic guys (STS_Underdog)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STS_Underdog »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">$30 an hour is CHEAP! To answer your question AllData quotes 5.5 hours for the rear main seal. Most of the other stuff should overlap with that, you're going to have to pull the axles, trans, timing belt, flywheel, and clutch to get to it so you shouldn't be looking at more time to install that stuff. I'd probably charge .5 to put in the water pump while I was in there and another .5 for the valve cover gasket. Replacing both wheel cylinders pays 2.5 hours and includes bleeding. Not sure how much for a full flush, maybe 1.0? 1.4 for the front brakes, .3 for the oil change, and 1.7 for the radiator.
Looks like I'd charge 13.1 dor the entire job going off AllData time. See if he'll give you a breakdown of time for different stuff. It sounds like he may have charged you the full AllData time for all the work and not given any time back for the overlap. Good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks a lot.
Looks like I'd charge 13.1 dor the entire job going off AllData time. See if he'll give you a breakdown of time for different stuff. It sounds like he may have charged you the full AllData time for all the work and not given any time back for the overlap. Good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks a lot.
02-15-2006, 11:33 AM
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Re: Need some help from the mechanic guys (94accordsedan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94accordsedan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Shop f*cked us over on the car, was originally quoted 10 hrs of labor @ $30 an hour = $300 to get all the work done. Now its suddenly $679.46 for everything. Can someone please help me break the items down into labor hours so I can tell this guy to go pound sand. (Need a reference guide if you guys can provide one.)
Water pump – antifreeze and distilled water provided.
Thermostat and Gasket
Timing belt including valve gasket cover
Clutch
2 Front Axles
Flywheel
Rear engine seal
Fuel Filter
Radiator
Flush brake system
Install new pads – please glaze rotors w/ 120 grit paper and use break in as outlined on manufacturer’s sheet (attached)
Oil & Filter change
Rear brake cylinder change and a battery tie down
Any help would be sincerely appreciated.
Sean who is now officially never taking his car to a shop he doesn't know.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Timing belt and water pump - 5.0 hours
rear main seal - 5.0 hours ( (includes flywheel) axles may be extra because they don't have to be completly removed to do the job)
thermostat and gasket 0.5 hours
radiator 2.0 hours
fuel filter 0.5 hours
brake fluid flush 0.5 hours
install new front pads 1.0 hours (not sure what the hell you want done with deglazing.....)
oil and filter 0.3 hours
rear brake cylinder 1.0 hours
battery tie down 0.3 hours
Looks like 18.1 hours or so flat rate, plus whatever for the axles, depends on how their shop handles it. We would prob do them for free.
A decent tech could do this in an 8 hour day.
Although, if it is a licenced shop, they may not be able to charge that much. Up here in Ontario, Canada, the shop can not go more than 10% over the original estimate without informing you. If they didn't ask for more time, you would not have to pay it. Although, you are dealing with a shop that charges $30/hour????!?!?!? Sounds pretty shaddy to me, I bet they don't even have a licence. Our hourly rate is $85/hour, which is low to normal for garages around here.
Modified by MightyMouseTech at 3:51 PM 2/15/2006
Water pump – antifreeze and distilled water provided.
Thermostat and Gasket
Timing belt including valve gasket cover
Clutch
2 Front Axles
Flywheel
Rear engine seal
Fuel Filter
Radiator
Flush brake system
Install new pads – please glaze rotors w/ 120 grit paper and use break in as outlined on manufacturer’s sheet (attached)
Oil & Filter change
Rear brake cylinder change and a battery tie down
Any help would be sincerely appreciated.
Sean who is now officially never taking his car to a shop he doesn't know.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Timing belt and water pump - 5.0 hours
rear main seal - 5.0 hours ( (includes flywheel) axles may be extra because they don't have to be completly removed to do the job)
thermostat and gasket 0.5 hours
radiator 2.0 hours
fuel filter 0.5 hours
brake fluid flush 0.5 hours
install new front pads 1.0 hours (not sure what the hell you want done with deglazing.....)
oil and filter 0.3 hours
rear brake cylinder 1.0 hours
battery tie down 0.3 hours
Looks like 18.1 hours or so flat rate, plus whatever for the axles, depends on how their shop handles it. We would prob do them for free.
A decent tech could do this in an 8 hour day.
Although, if it is a licenced shop, they may not be able to charge that much. Up here in Ontario, Canada, the shop can not go more than 10% over the original estimate without informing you. If they didn't ask for more time, you would not have to pay it. Although, you are dealing with a shop that charges $30/hour????!?!?!? Sounds pretty shaddy to me, I bet they don't even have a licence. Our hourly rate is $85/hour, which is low to normal for garages around here.
Modified by MightyMouseTech at 3:51 PM 2/15/2006
02-15-2006, 11:38 AM
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$30 an hour is not strange around here. Most shops charge $30-$45 around here, the real big places around $50 an hour.
Our old mechanic used to charge $25 an hour and he was top notch. Never had any issues with his work, but we've moved so its been pretty tough finding a reliable guy.
The guy was ASE certified, we verified that before even handing over the car. Brake deglazing was to put the new Hawk pads on, instructions required that you clean the rotors up before putting the new pads on. (I don't know if deglaze is the right term for it.)
Our old mechanic used to charge $25 an hour and he was top notch. Never had any issues with his work, but we've moved so its been pretty tough finding a reliable guy.
The guy was ASE certified, we verified that before even handing over the car. Brake deglazing was to put the new Hawk pads on, instructions required that you clean the rotors up before putting the new pads on. (I don't know if deglaze is the right term for it.)
02-15-2006, 11:42 AM
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Re: Need some help from the mechanic guys (MightyMouseTech)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Timing belt and water pump - 5.0 hours
</TD></TR></TABLE>
5.0 for the timing belt?! I gotta come work there. AllData lists it at 2.1 plus .5 if there is A/C and .5 for the water pump. I's agree on the rest though.
Timing belt and water pump - 5.0 hours
</TD></TR></TABLE>
5.0 for the timing belt?! I gotta come work there. AllData lists it at 2.1 plus .5 if there is A/C and .5 for the water pump. I's agree on the rest though.
02-15-2006, 11:54 AM
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Re: (94accordsedan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94accordsedan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">$30 an hour is not strange around here. Most shops charge $30-$45 around here, the real big places around $50 an hour.
Our old mechanic used to charge $25 an hour and he was top notch. Never had any issues with his work, but we've moved so its been pretty tough finding a reliable guy.
The guy was ASE certified, we verified that before even handing over the car. Brake deglazing was to put the new Hawk pads on, instructions required that you clean the rotors up before putting the new pads on. (I don't know if deglaze is the right term for it.) </TD></TR></TABLE>
You would really want to re-surface the rotors on the car, which would add another 1.5 hours to the job (at least it would here) but we have a really good self powered on car brake lathe.
Wow, glad I don't work down there. My flat rate salary is higher than what most of your SHOPS charge per hour. Most of the Ford and GM dealers around here are over $100/hour, and the tech's are getting in the $24-$28/hour flat rate.
Our old mechanic used to charge $25 an hour and he was top notch. Never had any issues with his work, but we've moved so its been pretty tough finding a reliable guy.
The guy was ASE certified, we verified that before even handing over the car. Brake deglazing was to put the new Hawk pads on, instructions required that you clean the rotors up before putting the new pads on. (I don't know if deglaze is the right term for it.) </TD></TR></TABLE>
You would really want to re-surface the rotors on the car, which would add another 1.5 hours to the job (at least it would here) but we have a really good self powered on car brake lathe.
Wow, glad I don't work down there. My flat rate salary is higher than what most of your SHOPS charge per hour. Most of the Ford and GM dealers around here are over $100/hour, and the tech's are getting in the $24-$28/hour flat rate.
02-15-2006, 11:57 AM
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Re: (MightyMouseTech)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You would really want to re-surface the rotors on the car, which would add another 1.5 hours to the job (at least it would here) but we have a really good self powered on car brake lathe.
Wow, glad I don't work down there. My flat rate salary is higher than what most of your SHOPS charge per hour. Most of the Ford and GM dealers around here are over $100/hour, and the tech's are getting in the $24-$28/hour flat rate.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Remember though, down here most of these shops are owned and run by the same person. We don't have too many big shops, just a bunch of small ones that get recommended via word of mouth.
Wow, glad I don't work down there. My flat rate salary is higher than what most of your SHOPS charge per hour. Most of the Ford and GM dealers around here are over $100/hour, and the tech's are getting in the $24-$28/hour flat rate.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Remember though, down here most of these shops are owned and run by the same person. We don't have too many big shops, just a bunch of small ones that get recommended via word of mouth.
02-15-2006, 11:59 AM
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Re: Need some help from the mechanic guys (STS_Underdog)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STS_Underdog »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
5.0 for the timing belt?! I gotta come work there. AllData lists it at 2.1 plus .5 if there is A/C and .5 for the water pump. I's agree on the rest though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
For a 94 Accord, we charge 4.5 for the timing belt/balancer belt/counter balance shaft oil seal retainer and another 0.5 for the water pump and coolant fill and bleed.
5.0 for the timing belt?! I gotta come work there. AllData lists it at 2.1 plus .5 if there is A/C and .5 for the water pump. I's agree on the rest though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
For a 94 Accord, we charge 4.5 for the timing belt/balancer belt/counter balance shaft oil seal retainer and another 0.5 for the water pump and coolant fill and bleed.
02-15-2006, 12:00 PM
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Re: (94accordsedan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94accordsedan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Remember though, down here most of these shops are owned and run by the same person. We don't have too many big shops, just a bunch of small ones that get recommended via word of mouth. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Is that Banjo music I hear?
LOL
Remember though, down here most of these shops are owned and run by the same person. We don't have too many big shops, just a bunch of small ones that get recommended via word of mouth. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Is that Banjo music I hear?
LOL
02-15-2006, 12:02 PM
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Re: Need some help from the mechanic guys (94accordsedan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94accordsedan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually all this was for the 88 CRX. Sorry should have mentioned that first. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Ya, makes a slight difference, knock 2 hours off the timing belt/water pump time.
Ya, makes a slight difference, knock 2 hours off the timing belt/water pump time.