lev16gt

I need more front camber adjustment than what is available from aftermarket upper arms. The car is a k20a dc2 Integra asphalt oval track car, hence the need for extreme negative right side camber and positive left side camber. Current front suspension setup as follows:

-Kiwi/PCI front upper arms
-Kingpin Machine front upper mounts, front lower arms and compliance bearings
-ESM outer tie rod ends
-Ground Control coilovers* w/multiple springs in various rates
-Ground Control extended top hats*
-Koni orange/street/str.t shocks*
-gsr front sway bar w/poly bushings

*Per series rules, no rebound/dampening adjustable shocks and no threaded body shocks, so Ground Controls and non-adjustable Konis it is.*

I'm at -3 right side camber with the upper arm adjustment maxed out. I need adjustability up to as much as -6, depending on the track I'm at, but will live with whatever I can get. It has been recommended to me by other racers in our series to cut, extend and weld the lower arm to give more negative camber... they even have an industrial welding shop who has made a jig to do this and has done several that have held up for multiple race seasons. However, I'm not so sure about it (cutting my Kingpin lower arms?!?!). I mean, if it works and is safe, fine, but it definitely seems like a pretty hillbilly way to go about it. Then there's the question of how much to extend the right and shorten the left to achieve a certain amount of camber...for example, if you add 1/4" or 1/2" in length, how much more negative camber does that correlate to?

As far as safety, the oem arms are cast steel, right? A competent welder should be able to cut, extend and weld the arm and actually end up with it being stronger than it was to begin with, right? Or am I way off here?

If the left arm is shortened, I will have to shorten the outer tie rod end, but that's doable on the lathe. The right side has plenty of threaded adjustment left to lengthen the tie rod end to accommodate a longer lower arm. Any other considerations to think of?

Any other ideas to achieve more camber adjustability than what's available out of aftermarket upper arms?

Any insights whatsoever? I know this is outside the box and the realm of traditional road racing/autoX, but I trust greatly the knowledge here and want to hear your thoughts. Sorry this was such a long post... Thank you!

TunerN00b

Some ideas:
Offset UCA bushings
Custom UCAs (better idea than LCAs, due to loads)
Shift front subframe to the side, moving the LCA mounts
Slot the shock tower holes, move the UCA mounts inward on right side, outward on left side (will probably need to create clearance with a hammer)
Bend the knuckles (changes the static value without messing with suspension geometry)

For the UCAs, you want something more like this than the standard sliding balljoint types, which significantly reduce clearances:

lev16gt

Thank you! I like all those ideas. We were actually just discussing this morning the slotting of the upper mount holes. I believe a combination of slotting the holes, shifting the subframe and bending the knuckles (if needed) will do the trick for us. I wish I could find some upper arms like that...anyone know of any available?...not necessarily from A-Sport, but from anyone? Custom upper arms would be ideal, but I'll have to explore my connections for such a thing...we'll see.

BattleGround

Do you have the adjustable inner bushings for the UCA? those can add a little more. you can also just shorten the upper arm or if you want more caster swap the uca left to right

lev16gt

I'm not sure what you mean by adjustable inner bushings for the UCA? Do you mean the actual UCA mount bushings? I have have the Kingpin spherical units for the UCA mounts. I can see how they can be offset with different size spacers for caster adjustment, but I'm not sure how they could be adjusted for more/less camber; other than modifying the arms or the mounting holes on the shock tower.

TunerN00b

These are better for adding positive camber than going more negative. The set I tried also moved the pivot point down compared to stock, no idea if that would be beneficial or detrimental.

lev16gt

Okay, I see. I might end up needing something like that for the left side to get more + camber. Which leads me to another issue...maybe I should create a new thread, but we'll see how this goes...

We can get no more than zero degrees (maybe a hair past zero in the +) out of the Kiwi/PCI upper arms. And according to PCI, I have the "newer" "longer" ones that should have more + adjustment than previous versions. The Kiwi (SPMS) product page states 2.0 degrees + and PCI's page states 1.5 degrees +...either way, we can't get anywhere close to that. Has anyone else seen this? I don't know how anything else in my front setup could be affecting this, unless something is bent out of whack (but I don't think so). Obviously, most of the above suggestions should also work for getting more + out of it, but I'm wondering why I'm so far off from where it "should" or "could" be according to manufacturer claims.

And no, I'm not saying anything negative about any of the people/companies involved, whatsoever. Jeff (Kiwi) has been a great help before, during and after I got my front UCAs and complete rear setup from him.

Thanks!

lev16gt

Just as a follow up, if anyone cares... the UCAs will only give you up to the stated 2.0 degrees positive camber if you're at stock ride height or just barely lowered. So that explains that. Either way, that issue is now sorted out.