KoRn_vIRuZ

I know there have been similar topics in the past, but they weren't very conclusive so please hear me out.

I currently do HPDEs with an EK3 hatch. Basically stock (1.5 liter 115 hp D15B engine) with coilovers, sway bars and lightweight wheels on semi-slick tires. I think it handles great.
Although the chassis doesn't feel quite as rigid as say a Honda Fit, it doesn't feel very flexible either. It feels stable and the car's attitude responds well to throttle adjustment (i.e. a trailing throttle rotates the rear nicely). The car's axis of rotation seems to be close to the driver, which I enjoy. For comparison I have also driven a 7th gen Civic sedan and hated the way it seems to corner as if it is rotating around the front axle.
Also my EK doesn't understeer under power (maybe because it has very little of it, lol), which I also like a lot.

I also have an EG6 (hatch as well of course) that I'm working on with the goal of replacing the EK for track duty. I like the way the EG looks better and the additional power is nice (engine swaps are prohibited in my country so there's no upgrading the EK3) but I'm starting to wonder: will I be disappointed with its handling? I'm not that much into power (I'm more of a handling guy) so should I just stick with the EK for the track? I know that on paper the EG chassis is more flexible but don't know how it translates to the real world. I have never driven a properly set up EG for any length of time and don't know of any I could borrow. If I spend a bunch of money on it only to discover it's worse than the EK I'll be super bummed.

Has anyone ever driven similarly set up EGs and EKs on track? Can you please share your impressions regarding differences in chassis handling and feel?

Thanks and sorry for the longish post!

Egezzy

iTrader: (2)

I don't know how "flexible" that my "EG" is; I can touch my toes though.

If you enjoy the EG6 and it has better power, why not give it a try? You don't like it, then go back to the EK3. I just really think this is a null and void discussion, especially for a DE conversation.

kristo

Is it not a D15Z6? Thoze have 114hp unlike any D15B.

If it is instead of swapping engines you can do a 'mini-e' swapping valve rockers or something from a D16Y8 or a 'mini-me' swapping the head.

KoRn_vIRuZ

Thanks for the reply. Sorry if flexible is not the proper word to use in this context. I try to write well but alas I'm not a native English speaker.

The problem with trying the EG6 out is the amount of money and time, most of which I won't be able to recoup if I later realize it was a mistake. HPDEs are all about having fun, and for me chassis dynamics are the most important aspect of that. That's why I am interested in hearing from people who have driven both chassis. Since these are two of the most popular Honda platforms I thought this would be both a good place to find such people and an interesting topic for the community as a whole.

Thanks for the correction. It is indeed a D15Z6. Don't know what I was thinking when I wrote D15B.

exgr

EG and EK chassis are close enough where the differences is negligible. If you already have either 1 chassis there really is no point to move to the other one and vice versa unless you're chasing all the small benefits/difference.

EG has slightly smaller frontal area, and more parts availability since it is fully compatible with 94-01 Integra's. EK is slightly stiffer but not by much. Lot of parts are interchangeable between EK and EG as well.

KoRn_vIRuZ

Thanks, that is quite comforting to hear.

I was passenger in an EF once and it felt twitchy to me (i.e. requiring a lot of corrections throughout the corner). It could've been the driver, but it scared me a bit thinking the EG might be like that. Sounds like it should be closer to an EK than to an EF then.

Any other opinions welcome. Thank you everyone.

Matt_EH3

I have driven a 99 hatch that was way more twitchy in the rear than my 93. The thing was awfully tail happy and I had to stay on the go pedal all the time so that the tail lights would not end up in the front of the headlamps. I have also driven a 2000 coupe that was more rear-stable than most cars I have driven (maybe too stable to my taste as a matter of fact).

In short, you can set the car up any way you want suspension wise and adjust it to your liking. As mentioned before, both geometries are similar enough, and because you have to keep to the OEM engine, I would just go with whatever car makes more power and start from there.

I would personally go with your EG, simply because I like how they drive and are easier to set up in my personal opinion.

...and yes, the EF is way different. You can't make any judgement call between EK/EG based on how an EF drove.

KoRn_vIRuZ

Thanks Matt, that's great insight. Indeed setup is key and it's hard to disentangle its role in the end result from more fundamental factors such as chassis rigidity, weight distribution and wheelbase. These fundamental factors are what I am trying to get at.

KoRn_vIRuZ

Here's what I'm thinking at the moment: go EG6 and try to improve rigidity as much as possible. A full cage is a no go due to legal restrictions, but a half cage (i.e. aft of the B pillar) is doable. In front I guess a Carbing 3 point bar is all I can do.

exgr

since it's just hpde you're not really limited by any rules right? why not a full cage? you always seam (spot) weld the chassis selectively and that can help a lot too.

KoRn_vIRuZ

I can't afford a trailer and towing vehicle so I need to keep it street legal to drive to and from the track. In my country a full cage is not allowed on a street car. A half cage can be homologated (after a bunch of money, paperwork, inspections, etc). I envy the freedom you guys have in the US regarding vehicle modifications.

Matt_EH3

On a hatch, it is known that the least rigid area is the rear, so a 4 pt roll bar definitely helps.

KoRn_vIRuZ

I hope so. The lack of rigidity on the EGs is pretty sad really. I have the front of mine raised on jack stands and the doors won't even close properly.

Matt_EH3

Just make sure you get a weld-in roll bar. The bolt in stuff changes nothing to chassis rigidity.

KoRn_vIRuZ

I'll have to discuss details with the company responsible for the homologation but I'm hoping I can do something like a 6 or 7 point weld-in (2 x floor + 2 x b pillar + 2 x rear suspension tower + 1 exhaust tunnel).

KoRn_vIRuZ

Small update. I was able to drive a stock EG6 last month. It didn't feel spectacular but didn't feel bad either. It's unfair to compare it to my EK since that isn't stock. Trying to think back to a stock EK the EG felt perhaps a little smaller, a little nimbler.

Seems like the difference between EG and EK is small enough that I'd need two cars with the same exact setup to understand the real difference.

miamirice

these cars respond greatly to modification, so no, you can't compare. When I bought my EG/K20 and took it out I had buyers remorse. Then after I put in an LSD and big rear sway bar I loved it.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

^^
Plus one!