schumi

Not so keen on practicing my driving skills or fine tuning car balance& setup on the street. So the question..... What are the alternatives?

The other day, me and my friend were doing some hot laps in an industrial complex parking lot/container unloading area. There is not a single soul around on a week end there...its almost .75 mile in length and pretty much wide for any spin/run off etc

As we were coming out of the complex, I saw a cop car passing by the next street. That made me think....What happens if a cop catches you doing some "Auto-x practice" sessions? **** a private property and not a public road. Any knows? Any one has any experience?

This is a perfect place for someone to experiment with car settings...change tire pressures, shock settings, ride heights etc which you don't get in a typical Auto-x environment. I know that nothing is 100% safe...at least, I will not be putting anyone else in danger by doing this in a alienated container unloading area.

thanks

MattP

Unless it's your private property or you have the permission of the owners, you don't really have a leg to stand on here. Save it for sanctioned autocross events.

nfn15037

How can you really drive all out (9-10/10ths) there? There is just no way I would push it as hard as I do at an event in some industrial park. You guys are lucky they didn't catch you, as the owners of the property would most likley be upset and could even press charges against you for trespassing. As mentioned above, save it for events.

00R101

Agree with everything that's been said.

I will add that not only do you risk a ticket or even jail time but you are also running at or near the limit in what is essentially an uncontrolled public area. This means that anyone could wander or drive onto your "course" at anytime. How badly would you feel if you hurt some innocent person in that case? The advantage of running at an autocross or on a track is that the area is survielled for "intruders."

regards,
alan

EJ1 wilcox

I've wondered the same thing since I am really trying to improve my driving as well. But, everyone I have asked has told me to save it for a sanctioned event.

I just wish I could get some more seat time though, I am pretty impatient. I mean, we have events like once or twice a month and only 3-4 runs per event. Which means that I could only get the chance to drive a real course for 3-4 minutes a month, which in my opinion is not enough time to really improve.

I think I am going to try to sign up for the next autox school that they have at PIR, I heard you get like 10 runs during the day and you get class room instruction and an instructor riding with you. I think taking a few runs with an instructor will help more than speeding around an empty parking lot with some friends.

drkarrow

Reckless Driving, Criminal trespass, and disorderly conduct come to mind.

In Minnesota reckless/careless driving laws apply...

(1) upon the ice of any lake, stream, or river, including
but not limited to the ice of any boundary water; or

(2) in a parking lot ordinarily used by or available to the
public though not as a matter of right, and a driveway
connecting such a parking lot with a street or highway.

So private property alone does not save you. Your state may vary.

johng

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think I am going to try to sign up for the next autox school that they have at PIR, </TD></TR></TABLE>

Or you can do this instead..
http://www.cascadesportscarclu...=home

Next school is May 5th.

My feeling about parking lot practice is, it's not going to help unless you make a repeatable course. You can't learn anything by just screwing around in a empty lot.

LBHgti

I do the same thing in the industrial park at work.....I come in on Sundays and do some hot laps, mostly for engine tuning, but we've got a couple of good sweepers and hairpins set up aswell, so it makes for a productive tuning track. Since our company owns the warehouse and the property, I can get away with it. The CHP likes to hang out and take their breaks behind the neighbor's warehouse. I got kind of scared when I came around a corner and made an 80 mph pass by 4 CHP patrol cars sitting behind a warehouse. I proptly parked the car and rode over there on the pit bike to ask a few questions. What I was doing was perfectly legal. Unless the owners/tenants file a complaint or call the authorities on you, you will be fine. I would go around on a friday afternoon and speak with the higher-ups at the some of the warehouses in this industrial park. Bring some literature to show them what autocross is all about, and explain to them what you would like to do in their lot on the weekends. You'll probably find that if you are polite and ask permission before getting caught in the act, they will have no problem whatsoever with you doing your testing, so long as you can do it in a safe manner. Good luck.

dvp

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've wondered the same thing since I am really trying to improve my driving as well. But, everyone I have asked has told me to save it for a sanctioned event.

I just wish I could get some more seat time though, I am pretty impatient. I mean, we have events like once or twice a month and only 3-4 runs per event. Which means that I could only get the chance to drive a real course for 3-4 minutes a month, which in my opinion is not enough time to really improve.

I think I am going to try to sign up for the next autox school that they have at PIR, I heard you get like 10 runs during the day and you get class room instruction and an instructor riding with you. I think taking a few runs with an instructor will help more than speeding around an empty parking lot with some friends. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you don't mind doing a little driving, theres an event every weekend this month. Try EESCC Porsche club of America and Willamette Motor Club as well. On the Willamette club, they seriously need a new site. I don't run there anymore because the lot they use is very small.


I would never go practice in a lot like that. Plus if something did happen, what are you going to do?

Burgh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LBHgti &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would go around on a friday afternoon and speak with the higher-ups at the some of the warehouses in this industrial park. Bring some literature to show them what autocross is all about, and explain to them what you would like to do in their lot on the weekends. You'll probably find that if you are polite and ask permission before getting caught in the act, they will have no problem whatsoever with you doing your testing, so long as you can do it in a safe manner. Good luck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

But real autocrosses are sanctioned by some governing body (usually SCCA) that covers the insurance on the event that includes lot insurance for any damage to the property. If you're just tooling around by yourself in a parking lot, that's not an "autocross" event.

In socal, we have autocross practice days on Saturday. Entries capped at 60-80, usually at least 12 runs per driver if not more. Why not try to get your local chapter to do something like this? Trust me, the demand will be there (and then some).

schumi

The place I was referring to is not a typical auto-x site where you can park 200 cars and run a decent event. Its just me and my friend just running around in a deserted area.

Everyone, I do understand where you all are coming from ...In a perfect world, I want to do it in a "real event" and be good at it in the 3 or 4 runs you get. But some times its not just possible.

I do understand that most of the people here wouldn't want to drive irresponsibly in a public road and wouldn't support anyone who does that. I am also in that category. I am not so thrilled when some one tells me that they have taken an offramp twice the posted limit under "safe" conditions or hit 130 mph in a highway. At the same time, I don't see much of a risk in running around in a large deserted area/parking lot covered with huge walls.

I could be wrong im my views.......All I am saying is that, there is a BIG difference doing some stupid things in a public road under "safe" conditions VS doing some runs in a deserted industrial complex in sunday afternoon. This is a place where one or two people can have some spirited runs in a comparatively safer environment to see how difference i set ups feel and affects your time
There is good visibility, lot of spin off rom, Chances of some one else coming into a "hot course" is nearly zero etc.

nonsense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Or you can do this instead..
http://www.cascadesportscarclu...=home
</TD></TR></TABLE>

this gets my vote. You'll learn more in the first session on track with an instructor than you will all year long skidding around some parking lot with your friend

turboman

If you want to use these huge empty parking lots go ahead. Hell I did just today. Not all out but enough to test how the car felt doing different things. Just be prepared to beg the officer not to drag you off to jail.

I worked weekends at my old company and around the block was a HUGE lot where we would go on our lunch breaks. Unfortunatly your not gonna get to really push the car to the limits or learn proper cornering unless you lay out some sort of track.

LBHgti

HPDEs are great, and probably the best way to get seat time and set up the car....But I'd rather work on my car in the shop, with air and hoist, than rushing between sessions on my back in a dusty paddock on the side of the track.

When I said bring literature expaining what autocross is all about, I'm not implying that he set up a full autocross course in the parking lot....but explain to them that he drives in these events and he'd like to set up a few corners to practice and to help set the car up correctly. If you are polite and make the point that you are not racing or driving recklessly, but simply trying to set up a few tight, controlled corners for testing and setup in as SAFE environment, I'm sure that they will be more than willing to offer up their lot.

steverife

Heh. That's why all these organizations with actual training, and insurance policies, and checks to write to the landowners have such a hard time finding autocross sites.

About 2 years ago, I was scrubbing my first set of race tires by doing gentle figure 8's in a secluded vacant parking lot when a police car popped up from behind the buiding. I was lectured on how I could have ran over his grandmother and on how dangerous it was to drive on bald tires, but he let me go.

schumi

This is kind of turning into a Auto-x site, benifits doing Auto-x schools kind of thread.

What I was trying to fin d out was a) what happens if a cop sees you doing some stupid things in a deserted private lot b) any one got any experience with issues related to this.

thanks

solo-x

you can't "practice" autocross. you can practice a slalom, you can practice a sweeper, you can practice shifting. autocrossing is the act of putting all those things together with no "practice". the whole idea of autocross is to NOT have practice. you get to walk the course and based on your experience, guess what the car is going to do and where you'll want it to be. you don't get a practice session or get to run the same course hundreds of times. THAT'S what makes autocross hard. figuring it out and getting it done in 3 runs.

so you think your setup is a little off? you want to tweak it a little bit? if you're anything close to a good driver, car setup, provided its close, doesn't matter one friggin bit. i won STS one year in my region with no rear swaybar, some eibach lowering springs, koni's and a header. that was IT. will your setup need to be spot on for a national level event? sure, but your driving better be there too or you'll still only be trophy fodder. if you're driving good enough to trophy at a national level event, you don't need to be practicing outside of sanctioned events.

trying to perfect that last little autocross technique? slalom? decreasing radius sweeper? go to an autocross school. Ross Bentley has a saying. it goes something like "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect". The point is, without having an instructor there to tell you what you did wrong, you won't have a clue. cars don't come with a magical light on the dash that goes on when you get it right.

if this post reads a little harsh, that's a good thing. autocross clubs around the country are finding it more and more difficult to find sites. why? lot owners think its unsafe. they think that even the sanctioned clubs are a bunch of hooligan punks doing donuts in empty parking lots at 3am. why? because a bunch of hooligan punks keep on doing **** like this in their parking lots, busting things up, making the lot look like crap, etc. do your region a favour. stop ****** around in people's parking lots and calling it autocross. in fact, stop doing it altogether. enroll in your regions autocross school if you REALLY want to get better at autocross.

you don't get better at golf by driving ***** into your neighbors backyard. you aren't going to get better at autocross screwing around in someone's parking lot. and shame on those of you who are condoning this behaviour. look at the big picture. no good can come of this.

nate

ewaugh

It's hard not to right now. We lost our site so I'm all ansy and doing everything I can to keep myself at the street level. It's hard to keep it slow without that outlet. I mean, last year I was auto-xing 3 out of four weekends a months. This month the one I know of up in huntsville is on the same date that I have to help my grandparents move in then.

ALSCCA needs help finding a site!

steverife

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you don't get better at golf by driving ***** into your neighbors backyard. you aren't going to get better at autocross screwing around in someone's parking lot. and shame on those of you who are condoning this behaviour. look at the big picture. no good can come of this.

nate</TD></TR></TABLE>

I built my short game as a kid by hitting the ball around the neighborhood. Years of trying to plop a wedge shot on top of Mr. Fox's trash can without busting out his kitchen window made up and downs in high school matches seem easy.

I agree completely on the autocross part, though.

White98LS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can't "practice" autocross. you can practice a slalom, you can practice a sweeper, you can practice shifting. autocrossing is the act of putting all those things together with no "practice". the whole idea of autocross is to NOT have practice. you get to walk the course and based on your experience, guess what the car is going to do and where you'll want it to be. you don't get a practice session or get to run the same course hundreds of times. THAT'S what makes autocross hard. figuring it out and getting it done in 3 runs.

so you think your setup is a little off? you want to tweak it a little bit? if you're anything close to a good driver, car setup, provided its close, doesn't matter one friggin bit. i won STS one year in my region with no rear swaybar, some eibach lowering springs, koni's and a header. that was IT. will your setup need to be spot on for a national level event? sure, but your driving better be there too or you'll still only be trophy fodder. if you're driving good enough to trophy at a national level event, you don't need to be practicing outside of sanctioned events.

trying to perfect that last little autocross technique? slalom? decreasing radius sweeper? go to an autocross school. Ross Bentley has a saying. it goes something like "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect". The point is, without having an instructor there to tell you what you did wrong, you won't have a clue. cars don't come with a magical light on the dash that goes on when you get it right.

if this post reads a little harsh, that's a good thing. autocross clubs around the country are finding it more and more difficult to find sites. why? lot owners think its unsafe. they think that even the sanctioned clubs are a bunch of hooligan punks doing donuts in empty parking lots at 3am. why? because a bunch of hooligan punks keep on doing **** like this in their parking lots, busting things up, making the lot look like crap, etc. do your region a favour. stop ****** around in people's parking lots and calling it autocross. in fact, stop doing it altogether. enroll in your regions autocross school if you REALLY want to get better at autocross.

you don't get better at golf by driving ***** into your neighbors backyard. you aren't going to get better at autocross screwing around in someone's parking lot. and shame on those of you who are condoning this behaviour. look at the big picture. no good can come of this.

nate</TD></TR></TABLE>
Great post.

The more people who mess around parking lots at 3am, the less autocrosses there will be due to public perception of what they THINK is "autocross". By "practicing" like this you are ruining the true sport for the rest of us, and yourself.

The part about tweaking that last little detail to get better is spot-on. One of the best drivers I know got the fastest time of the day in a local event and afterwards he told me that he forgot to mess with his shock settings. Another great driver in the area borrowed a friend's bone-stock '04 Chevy Monte Carlo and proceeded to clown on 3/4 of the field. Focus on driving first, car second... and taking a driving school or attending a practice and perhaps having a good driver/instructor ride with you is FAR FAR better than trying to accomplish anything productive in a parking lot. As much as we may not like it, it's illegal for a reason.

mtbprelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> sure, but your driving better be there too or you'll still only be trophy fodder.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Someone call for Trophy Fodder? What class you need me in?

If you need test time, or set-up time and don't want to do it at the local events, find another way. Ask if they'll let you double or triple enter your car. Be prepared to shell out for this right since you'll be driving around, tinkering and not working.

I know of some local guys that go to propery managers, and PAY them for the right to conduct some testing. Usually there is a written contract in which the tester takes full financial responsibility for anything that might happen.

Solo2Vtec

The more people who mess around parking lots at 3am, the less autocrosses there will be due to public perception of what they THINK is "autocross". By "practicing" like this you are ruining the true sport for the rest of us, and yourself.

This man speaks the truth!

fireant

How to practice at autocross while daily driving:

1.) look ahead, way ahead

2.) shuffle steer

3.) left foot brake (when not downshifting)

ekim952522000

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fireant &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How to practice at autocross while daily driving:

1.) look ahead, way ahead

2.) shuffle steer

3.) left foot brake (when not downshifting)</TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly!

solo-x

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fireant &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How to practice at autocross while daily driving:

1.) look ahead, way ahead

2.) shuffle steer

3.) left foot brake (when not downshifting)</TD></TR></TABLE>

3b.) left foot brake WHILE downshifting properly with a double clutch and rev match.

don't let my fiance know i can do that. i claim 3 left feet so i don't get roped into ballroom dance lessons. if she knew i could downshift using the clutch while braking with the same foot and blipping the gas with the other foot i may still be able to claim 3 left feet but she won't buy them not being very cordinated...

nate