SJR

Well, I have been giving this a lot of thought - and I think I am going to bail out on this hobby. Don't get me wrong, I love it. I am pretty much addicted to the GFCP, and have been since I was a kid. To my mother's horror, I used to ride my little plastic-wheeled "bike-thing" down a very steep hill around from our appartment in Cannes, yelling the french equivalent of "Wheeeee!" I was 4.
Speed has been my drug of choice over the years, on to bicycles, moped (hopped-up of course), dirt bikes, sports bikes, kayaking, skate boarding, wind surfing, etc. If it goes fast (or feels like it goes fast) and you can race it - I'm there.
Life, however, has a rather funny way of tapping you on the shoulder and remind you that, huh, you're an adult now, with other responsibilities. As it is, it is not making enough sense any more for me to keep my car. I only have time and money for about 3 HPDEs per year. Just enough to keep me hooked, but not enough to satisfy.
Furthermore, since I came back to it this year (and after only two events), I have made enough progress to start going pretty fast. And, quite honestly, going fast by myself isn't as much fun as it was in the beginning, and the risks are increasing: fun decreasing, risk increasing... not a good combination.
I am afraid that I need to take the next step to keep me going - and I just cannot afford (money or time) to go racing just yet. I suspect that I might be able to get a comp license this year if I went to all the remaining events - or maybe early next year, but it is just not possible. I really hate doing things halfway: if I am going to be doing this, I want to go all the way. Period.
And I am not having enough fun in HPDEs anymore to justfify keeping the car, buying more safety equipment, paying insurance, pads, tires, etc.
So, I have signed up for the August 15 FATT at Summit, and I think it will be my last track event for some time. I will put the integra up for sale immediately following the event. I will come back to this (yes I will) when I can do it "right". And by that I mean that I will come back when I can go and buy a race car, and be able to get a comp license and race an entire season in whatever series is available at that time (pro-electric sedan?) I am not kidding myself, odds are pretty good that I will never come back to it, but I have seen the more ancient participants in this sports and they are doing fine. Besides, by the time I am their age, my kids will hopefully be moved out of the house and in college!
Right now, I need to concentrate my time, effort and finances to provide for my family, pay down debt, finance some real vacations (!) and get myself a retirement plan that allows for some geriatric automotive racing. Guess it's time to grow up. Pisser.

I will most likely lurk on the board, if nothing else to see what new topic everybody is fighting about, and to read Scott's (RR98ITR) most excellent dissertations on the topic we all love.

I am open for suggestions on my next hobby: needle point, lawn care, shooting innocent animals with a large gun, ???

ITACivic

I, just like you will be leaving racing for a while. It sounds like you have a family also. Well, I have drowned my racing sorrows with 100 proof bottles of time with my sons. My wife bought me an RC car kit for father's day. My older son has some of the toy type rc cars. We go outside and play RC cars. I get to imagine that is a real car. I have fun trying to make it faster with tuning parts. Also an arrive and drive kart center helps out every few months or so.

SPiFF

I know what you mean. The whole track thing is cheapest when you drive your car to the track (the only car you probably own at the time), unload the CDs, drive around, put CDs back, and drive home. I remember those years like they were yesterday! Then you get faster, you cook your pads, so you get some racing fluid and pads. You start to chunk your tries, so you get some Kumhos. Your Kumhos cord on the outside, so you get some totally unstreetable springs and an LSD. Your car is now fast and you pull every muscle in your upper body holding on in turns. After you almost had that big off, you realize you are now fast and had you wrecked, you might have been in a world of hurt. You need a roll cage, but those are not safe on the street, so you need a truck and a trailer. But you don't like the drive a truck everyday, so you need to get a fun car to drive on the street. You buy some mods for your "street" car. Now you have not been to the track in months, maybe even a year, because you had to buy all this stuff and wish for the simple days when you just drove ot the track, unloaded your CDs, drove around, put your CDs back, and drove home.

dwn-shift

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know what you mean. The whole track thing is cheapest when you drive your car to the track (the only car you probably own at the time), unload the CDs, drive around, put CDs back, and drive home. I remember those years like they were yesterday! Then you get faster, you cook your pads, so you get some racing fluid and pads. You start to chunk your tries, so you get some Kumhos. Your Kumhos cord on the outside, so you get some totally unstreetable springs and an LSD. Your car is now fast and you pull every muscle in your upper body holding on in turns. After you almost had that big off, you realize you are now fast and had you wrecked, you might have been in a world of hurt. You need a roll cage, but those are not safe on the street, so you need a truck and a trailer. But you don't like the drive a truck everyday, so you need to get a fun car to drive on the street. You buy some mods for your "street" car. Now you have not been to the track in months, maybe even a year, because you had to buy all this stuff and wish for the simple days when you just drove ot the track, unloaded your CDs, drove around, put your CDs back, and drove home.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That my friend should be in a child's story book.

ghettoracer

why aren't you having fun at HPDE's? personally, i've had tons of HPDE days, and I still have things to learn. to go 10/10th by oneself can still be a challenge. that is track dependent of course. on a track like say, sears point, 10/10th is 10/10th, and is plenty challenge by itself.

now that i've experienced w2w recently, it is more intense and less "fun" in some ways - that is if one takes winning (or wanting to) seriously. but for sheer fun, HPDE's can be great.

i basically whored myself out in 2002 (by instructing) and got 90% of the track times for free. all i pay is gas, tires, and pads. it wasn't really that expensive, and i improve steadily each time.

i guess you have obligations and responsiblities. there is a reason why i'm not getting married any time soon. i need all the $ and time for myself.

.RJ

Wow spiff...

I stopped short of cage+truck+trailer.... and I am reverting back to stock suspension and street tire fun. Unload tools, top off oil, check pressures and drive. 600# springs and 225 width kumhos just breaks things faster. And i'm tired of feeling like shultz... just wnat to go out and have fun.

RJ

MattG

Have you considered autocross with a kart, or even a stock class car, or lightly modded STS/STX car? A few racers locally have switched to karts and they race with their kids. Something to think about.

krshultz

Steve, I feel your pain. It's hard to do things half assed, *knowing* you're doing them half assed.

Take some time off (the car sale decision I'll leave up to you...personally I'd keep it for a year just in case you change your mind) and see if its something you're interested in coming back to. At the end of the day, it costs too damn much and requires too much work for it to not be a LOT of fun.

I admire your decisiveness.

SJR

thanks all for the replies (and offers...)
I am sure that I am leaving the hobby until I can come back and race. My wife is trying to talk me into racing full fledge (I knew I picked the right one...). And it is very tempting - but I am the one who manages the money around here, and I KNOW that I cannot afford it. That makes it even harder. If only she could pressure me to quit - I'd have an easy way out ("the wife made me quit")
No such luck.
I have tried auto-X and it just doesn't turn me on - at all. too much standing around for too little driving. Besides, I actually like knowing where the track is.

Karl, my name is actually Sebastien, not Steve - but that's OK. I have (ashamedly) enjoyed reading all the posts about your contagious bad luck, and want to give you a big FAT for starting the HC with Scott. I followed it from the time it started online. Cool.

It is really painful to sell my car. I bought the damn thing new and I have performed all the maintenance and 90% of the mods myself, in my little garage. There's a good amount of blood and sweat on that thing.
Selling it is the right thing to do financially - no question about it. And if I can sell it to one of the guys on this board, that would be best (and a couple have already shown some interest, thanks!). But it hurts. I guess I could never race that car, I like it too much.
So, I will give myself until after the 8/15 FATT to make up my mind on selling the car. It is paid for, and as a pleasure vehicle, doesn't cost much to insure.
My other car is a Tundra (bought with towing a race car in mind), and I don't mind driving that every day. Besides a pickup is damn useful when you own a house.
I appreciate the comments as I am making a difficult decision. I have quit other hobbies in the past, but it has never been this difficult.

SJR

I am still having fun. But not as much as I used to. And I want more. More. I want to go door-to-door, wheel-to-wheel with other drivers.
I am not a naturally competitive person. Every sport I have participated in (and there have been many), I could have cared less if I won or lost.
BUT, get me behind a wheel, or a handle bar, and I turn into a different person. I am extremely competitive when it comes to racing. It takes me a lot of effort to prepare myself at an HPDE to not succomb to red mist, or to try to not push just a little harder to keep up with that 996 twin turbo in the turns.
In order to be satisfied with this sport, I need to go racing, and the simple, sad truth is that I can't ******* afford it.
when I entered this sport, the economy was different and I had real hopes to be able to afford racing by now. Well, **** happens, and I am like everybody else, hanging to my job, and watching my 401(k) go down the tubes, along with my standard of living.
Anyway, I am glad that you can enjoy HPDEs. You are better off for it. To each his own.

Civic44

I guess I'm of a different personality type than some of you guys, because I don't mind putting together a low-budget half-assed racing effort. I drive an 88 Civic hatch, it's got all the safety equipment and it's still street legal. It cost less than 4000$US including the driver equipment. I'm not worried about "cage in street car" because I only drive it to and from events and to the speed shop or mechanic's. I'd still prefer to crash on the street with a padded cage than with no cage. I got my comp license last summer with EMRA and participated in 3 wheel-to-wheel events. This year I've done 2 so far and plan to do 4 more. I'm not going to win any championships, I'm not doing well in any points race. However, my car is reliable and I have brought home a couple of trophies (mainly for still being there at the finish) including one at the Glen and one at Tremblant. I drive to events (all but one where I shared my car and the co-driver shared his truck/trailer). I'm not too worried about getting stranded if I break the car, as I've always got friends with another car with me. Even if I have to pay 500$ to have the car towed home, it's still much cheaper to do that once a year than to buy a tow vehicle. I don''t have a garage, or even a parking space. I leave the Civic in my parents' driveway. I''m on a tight budget, so I do Solo 1 events as well. It's good track time for a lot less $ than wheel-to-wheel. My effort is clearly half-assed, yet I'm having a blast. My car is fun and reliable and I run on used tires to save even more $. There is nothing wrong with racing half-assed (as long as your car is safe). I don't see why so many people seem to find it so depressing to only do a handful of races per year while you're paying off student loans and your fiancee is doing her PhD...

ghettoracer

what i was trying to say to you is, there is always room for improvement in ones skill. while it is nearly impossible to learn race craft in HPDE environment, you can learn so much about going at the limit all the times.

recently i put myself to the test, i ran 31 laps straight on a 3 miles track. it was some 75 mins long, and i was able to maintain a sprint pace with out mistakes.

you can continue to have (some) fun and continue to improve. if you stop going to the track, you won't improve, if anything you might lose a little. just my 2 cents and FWIW.

SJR

Frank, I understand what you are saying, and I am not disagreeing. What I am saying is that regardless of how much more I have to learn, and how challenging a particular track may be, I am not having as much FUN as I used to have. I am not excited about getting on the track anymore. The ratio of risk to fun is not as attractive as it used to be. I need to go one step further and start racing in order to get off again. And I can't afford to do that. So, I am going to stop altogether until I can come back and do HPDEs with the intent to get a comp license and start actually racing.

ghettoracer

just remember, seat time is extremely valuable. any seat time is good seat time, but like most other things in life, there is a quality vs. quantity issue too. i've had tons of seat time, and i make all efforts to improve myself, however, usually i don't learn that much anymore in HPDE. HPDE still can be awesome tho, the single most productive track day i've had in the last 2.5 years was earlier this year at sears point. it was a very wet day and i learned so much. i'm looking forward to more rainy days for good practice.

so the next time you goto the track, make it count.