jakscivic

I have searched through hundreds of posts and here is the set up I will most likely have.
LS Block
Micropolished crank
might ballance the crank but its pretty good from factory
GSR water and oil pumps
GSR timing belt
has .25 OB with ctr pistons
ARP rod bolts and head studs

2000 B16 Head
B18c cams
B16 Intake and Exhaust manifolds

ECU
Right now im on a pr3 obd0 i beleive due to the 2 plug ins
Want to get a chipped p28 from phearable.net

I will be getting the GE LSVTEC kit
Will be getting new gaskets
Right now i cant afford a hondata so I thinkg that the chipped p28 should be good for a while.

So here are my questions. I cant get a hold of high enough octain to run on the CTR pistons and i dont have enough money to tune it so it could take 92 without potential detination. Would i be able to put the PR3 or P30 pistions on the shaved rods? Or should i just get new rods all together. Is the chipped p28 an ok set up or is there something else i should be looking at? And is there anything wrong with that set up? I wont be using the gsr girdle, I hear that it is just a little extra insurance. I will only be reving it to 8000 or so. Im trying not to cut any corners at all and i want to do this right. Thanks

jakscivic

ttt

aspec101

no offense but why do you spend all this time to gather parts to build a ls/vtec and then try to cheap out???? What until you have some chedder and do it right! I have the same set up and I am running a chipped p72 no probs 93 oct all the way. Don't even think about using less than 93 oct it will ping like a bitch.

jakscivic

kind of a problem when i can only get 92, im not trying to be cheap, trust me, if i think that i really need a part i will postpone the project until i get it. I honestly dont think that the girdle would help a lot. I have heard guys reving to 9000 constetly and not having a problem. Im trying to do this right, i can save money. But im not goign to save 500 bucks to get something that would probably only help a little. To me sounds like a waste of time and money. And dude, seriously im sure you have been through this whole process of gathering info and parts, unless you are a cheap bastard that baught the car with the engine already in it. So please dont be saying that im cheap, i want to do it right. Thanks

jakscivic

ttt

HondaCivicSiR1

instead of using a girdle just get arp main studs i'm going to build a ls/vtec turbo soon and i was going to to do the gsr girdle but then decided not to and just get the arp main stud's as a added insurance and there a hell of alot cheaper than paying a machine shop to line hone your block for the girdle.good luck with your build

jakscivic

yeah, i was going to get those studs as well but the girdle is really 50/50. Some will swear by them and others will say they rev to 9000 with no problem and no girdle. So i dont think i am going to get it. So much money, I want to do it right, I just dont think getting a girdle will be doing it exactly right. Just what i think

BigJ5

What are you talking about, I bought a girdle and mains for peanuts. I think it was 90 bucks...shipped

Hell there are GSR shortblocks going for 300-500 bucks in the forsale section.

Look at it this way....

Honda Motor Co.
-They know how to build an engine, both the GSR and the ITR have a girdle

Joe-Bobs backyard mechanic
-well the B18a/b's don't have one....so I guess it's ok.... My buddy chris bought a chip on ebay and rev's his LS up to 9grand, so really you don't need one.

It's there for added stiffness, since both the GSR and ITR make more power than an LS motor, I would highly recommend it for longevity. Studs will not bridge the caps to add stiffness and still allow flex in the block. Look at the new K20's, honda has even gone through the trouble of making the oil pan cast alum for an even stiffer bottom end. Using just studs to compensate for a girdle, is well....pretty ******* dumb.

I think it's there for a reason, find one from a blown up block and plastigauge the **** out of the whole bottom end. Put it together....

As for pinging, why don't you install a knock sensor, and chip a P30. Or perhaps buy and aftermarket knock detector. I honestly doubt you will have too many problems if you run a proper tune with a chipped P30, and a realistic timing map.

Here is and install of the knock sensor on an ls-vtec build. They don't use a girdle, but I still push for them.
http://www.c-speedracing.com/h...c.php

The other option for gas is to buy alcohol and add it per fillup. We used to be able to buy pure ethanol and if you did well in chemistry you bump up your octane to 112 (really pushing it 98 is more realistic). It's harder to get now since that whole columbine bullshit....I know thats old new, but that is why they stopped selling over the counter here....

Good luck

jakscivic

Sorry, I have just read a crap load of posts and not a whole lot of people use the girdle. I guess i can look into it more and I think I would be able to do it since i am going to tear down the whole block anyway. Im not sure i have ever seen ethanol around here to buy. But where would i buy the alcohol? Thanks for your input. Everything so far has helped!

jakscivic

Oh, and if i were to put alcohol into the gas how much would i need to put in to boost the octain to higher levels? Thanks for the help

MrMike

just a suggestion: run some decent sized injectors at least obd2 prelude injectors.
I"m running the prelude injectors in my 11.8:1 comp LSVtec with stock p72 ecu w/ knock sensor, gsr cams, skunk2 mani, 60mm TB and it runs fine.

BigJ5

well, it depends on the volume percentage of the gas station. I would never go over 25-30% (by volume), since you would get too much water during your combustion cycle.

So, say your station has a max % of 15 percent ethanol in its high octane gas.

Your tank is say 45 litres, but it's never actually empty....unless you have a hole in it. So, ~40 litres if you drive on the light for a day like I do. So just do the math.

It should be roughly a gallon, but I would just put in two-three litres (half gallon roughly) oh that is a UK gallon....

here is a guide somone put online.
http://www.disgruntledpunk.com/octane.htm
Note, his numbers are not per volume, but a percentaged mixed with the gas volume purchased.

I just want to make it extremely clear, that you CAN **** up your motor is you put too much alcohol in there. Alcohol burns at a cooler rate and produces more water during combustion. Also, injector pulse is required to be lengthened (minimally).

If your serious about adding alcohol, please do some serious research. I don't want to see you saying I told you put it in there and it blew up. Besides no one is going to call you a nerd for going to the library to read a little bit of chem, or go the local college to talk to a chem prof. esp when you kill them on the highway with a well built and running engine....

As for buying it, not to sure about the states, but before you could buy it over the counter at Shoppers Drug Mart here in Ontario. Now I have to actually get it from labs if I want to run high octane, since the track is too far to buy race fuel to fool around in my car. But, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find it.

jakscivic

The high octane would be awsome but i think the cost for alcohol would soon out weigh the cost for new rods and pistons. So I have thought about it and i think im going to just take out the shaved rods and pistons and sell those and get new rods and p30 pistons. Thanks for all the help on the alcohol thing, i didnt know i would be able to do that.

jakscivic

Well since i will be getting rid of the shaved ls rods with the ctr pistons on them how much do you think they should sell for? and is there a general interest in them so would they go quick?

iakona

i'm interested in what you decided on: girdle or rod bolts?

jakscivic

I keep going back and forth on the girdle. One moment i want to put it in, then the next i hear 30 people saying that you dont need it. I think it will take a little bit more time for me to decide on if i am giong to get the girdle. But for sure i am going to get rid of the ctr pistons and get new rods and pistons, and def. going to get the arp rod bolts.

clayton bigsby

iTrader: (1)

u people are all trippin. **** the gridle just get enough fule. like a good fule pump would be nice and a fpr would be good to. i can tell you that your set up is cool for now. if anything i would recomend maybe a 4 piece head gasket with lots of coper spray to keep the compression down a tad tell u get ur hondata and then u can just take the head off and go to a stock head gasket and get ur high compression again. have done this like 25-30 times at my shop in lynnwood wa. trust me and we rev our all oem ls/vtec's to 9000 rpm. the trick is how you build the motor not just in the parts

vw eater

pic's?

jakscivic

pics of what? the block? My car? My b16?

vw eater

all

jakscivic

I will be able to put up pictures in a few days. i need to get everything sorted out first

D-Rob

Personally, I just finished assembling my LSVTEC project.

It's a B18A with stock rods with P30's and a B16 head.

I opted for ARP rod bolts and head studs AS WELL as a girdle/mains from a B18C5.

To me, if Honda thought the 87mm stroke VTEC motors needed a girdle for safe revving, my high-revving 89mm-stroke LSVTEC should have one too.

But it's up to you.
- Derek

jakscivic

how high do you rev it? And how much all together did you spend on the parts for the girdle?

D-Rob

Like I said, I just finished assembling the motor yesterday, so it's not in yet.

I plan on revving it to 8600 RPM-ish.

Paid $150 for girdle and main caps.

jakscivic

Just a shot of my valve cover




Modified by jakscivic at 9:17 PM 10/12/2005