blazzer

( I have searched for my questions here specifically with little to no find so i have decided to cave and ask them.)
I currently have a b16a. i have bought another car to swap this in to for my yearly DD.

The chassis the b16 is coming out of is a 98 hatch cx. been doing work to it over time, so on so forth. it is my summer/weekend tacker.

I am looking for some opinions. i have been doing research like crazy and finally wanted to ask to get some feedback between these two swaps for my hatch as i do not have experience in swapping the k

b16b supercharged

Or

N/A k20a

i feel when it is all said and done the b16b SC is going to be the cheaper platform for the money. ( i am not going turbo i have already made my mind up on this.)

my questions; in your opinion. which one? Is the b16b the best choice for a SC application? (my other choice was a b18c. The b16b i liked due to the fact is is essentially a DE-stroked b18. tracking, the loss of low end is not a substantial concern to me.)

$ for $ for power, the cheapest with quality parts, is the k20 worth it or a b series SC?
what is the better gain now, and compared the the gain in the long run?

or in the long run is a k20 N/A worth the money if i decide to SC down the road? and given it is square when compared to the b- family.

i am rev happy on the track too.. (fyi)

F22Master

No replacement for displacement. Dont go B16 or K24. Step up to B18, B20, or K24.

Power per dollar, a turbo B/Vtec will pretty much always come out on top. Although all motor K24A2s are getting ~220+whp with just bolt-ons and a tune...

But a K swap ALWAYS has hidden costs. Expect to spend ~$4-5k for everything EXCEPT for the motor/trans...

blazzer

so a k series all said an done i could be looking at close to 10 grand installed and running hey?

why do you say b18? i dont understand what the b18 has over the b16b aside from displacement? if need be, could i not just buy a b16b and either purchase a stroker kit or a b18 crank and and rods down the road if i really wanted the 1.8L of displacement?
I liked the destroke with long arms of the b16b, seems from what i understand to be easier and more rev happy. from my research it seemed like a b16b or squared engine of a k20 would be most ideal for a centrifugal supercharger?

issue being if i want square i am spending alot of money that i am not sure i want to spend, being worth the price k20's are right now.

like said i am not going turbo either. i am 100% set on that.

issue to is well.... 10 grand for a k20 n/a (which taps me out of funs for a while) +/-$$ or about 4-5 grand for a b16b or b18c supercharged. BUT in the long run is the k20 a better choice or is a b16b/b18c a better choice for my appication of money and what i am using it for? especially when applying the SC in to the mix.

reliability, efficiency, dollar for dollar: HP.

F22Master

Maybe not 10k, but well north of 5k. The biggest difference is the cost of the engine/trans. All of the accessories are the same no matter what K engine you get. Accessories being mounts, shifter setup, axles, ECU (Kpro), fuel setup, etc. If you want to go K, K24 is the only way to go. Ask anyone who has had/driven both.

Square doesnt matter. Even a B18 or K24 will still rev out just fine.

A B16B swap is ~$3000-3500 right now. Thats a LOT for a B swap. I would personally choose a GSR. You can usually find a GSR full swap for less than 2k, and it has as much power as a B16B, and more torque. And a B18C revs just as well as a B16B. With some aftermarket valve springs, both can spin upwards of 9k rpm all day long.

TracerAcer2.2L

I've read several places that the K series tranny is crap when boosted, no personal experience just what I've read, you may want to look into that. That said, the B series tranny is like, indestructible. Get one with LSD and you're set. You are correct in that a B16 would be more rev happy than a B18. Why? Because longer stroke= a lower safe redline. BTW, I like your choice on going SC'd, that will definitely keep it revving easy

blazzer

why i was not sure in regards to a b18c. always thought the reason the b16b was such a big deal was partly due to the fact it is an rpm screamer. it does not have very much TQ but i understand why.
i guess my issues going with the b16b versus a k or b18 is the parasitic drain on the sc and the b16b already not having massive amounts of TQ. if this would cause a substantial issue?

remember this is my summer weekend track car. it will be driven daily very little. so some sacrifices can be made. given that does not mean i want to spend my life savings on it either.

if i could, i would love to find a gsr and just..destroke it, but i cannot find anywhere that makes a kit like that other then having one custom built. by the time that is done this is no longer an engien swap but an expensive engine build that would prbly end up costing more then a b16b and close to a k20.... or a k24. i cannot justify that for the $$$, not right now anyway.

still unsure though as to why aside from the displacement why a b18 would be king over b16b? like you said trace, as long as i am understanding correctly, longer arms with less travel= higher revs due and less piston head due to piston speed at the sacrifice of TQ.

so then a b18 in theory being the opposite of that with more stroke to bore.

would not a b16 be my better choice? money wise compared to a b18 SC over a k20 N/a?? or am i misunderstanding?

(btw prices for my location on engines just as a factor are :
(engines have tranny,ecu,axles,wiring,stock engine mounts included)
b16b:3000$
gs-r: 2750$
b18c(98spec) 3850$
k20:4200$

F22Master

You are thinking too far into it. Both the B16B and B18C bottom ends can take 9k+ rpm just fine. The valve springs are the weak point in both.

But a Gsr really is the best option here. Same power, more torque, way cheaper.

blazzer

i just dont understand why the redline of a gs-r is so much lower to that of a b16b? if the bottom ends are technically able to achieve 9k+ rpm why is the gs-r limited to 7800 and the b16b 8400? ( or was it 9000?)

are the heads really that different? when it comes to interenals? ( from what i understand the actually heads are cast the same aside from porting etc the type-rs get?

F22Master

GSR head is completely different from B16B/B18C-R. P72(GSR) vs PR3(B16A/B, B18C5/R) casting.

The main reason for the redline difference is probably the cams. And also think about it from a consumers standpoint, why make your mid-level engine rev as high as your top of the line engine? And I think the GSR redline is 8000, or maybe 8200?

Yes, the B16B and B18C-R are a technically little better balanced for high rpm, but even a GSR will spin 9k.

blazzer

well thnx man, given me a bit more to think about here. thnx for your input. really helped out. got me leaning on the gs-r side now.

HiProfile

Buy the b16b swap, sell the motor for $1500 and buy a GSR for a few hundred less, win. However there are lots of engine importers in Canada, there should be a few that can ship them to you for much less than that.

Another thing to think about is an H2B swap. An H23A or F20B can be bought for less than $900, the adapter kit for under $600, $500 for a JDM LSD trans, and $500 for the rest.

The nice thing about a b-series swap is it can be a direct swap. The downside to a S/C is the maintenance issues regarding the belt - they can be very problematic. The K-swap will cost a lot, and the H2B will have little problems to sort out at the beginning.

blazzer

what? does this not put me at negative 1500$ if not more? buy a b16b, -3000, sell for 1500, still at -1500$ buy a gsr,-3500$+...?? i am confused as to what you are getting at.

i dont know of any through my searches any you can reccomend, these prices were the cheapest. located in alberta, most places are charging me 4-600$ for shipping from out of province dealers.

not a fan of the h series tbh. more work then i want. i like the b trannys so for simplicity.. stickign with a b series seems like the ideal way to go.

can you explain how the belts are problematic? more specifically towards a rotex charger?

TracerAcer2.2L

Okay, 1. You do not need to worry about "parasitic loss" with a SC. Yes, there is technically some, but if you're
gaining so much more power, how would anyone even notice? This "parasitic loss" argument most put up is a poor one, at best.
2. You will gain low end torque with a supercharger. Unlike the turbocharger, you would get instant boost.
3. As far as revv happy Vs. better low end and mid-range: if I remember correctly, you said this is a track car? If that's the case, you would want more mid range power, as you will spend a lot of time there in the turns. The only time you'll probably use a lot of top end is on a straight away. That said, a well known law is that higher RPM = higher horsepower. Anyone who knows anything about a F1 engine spinning to 18,000 RPM knows this. My point is, you need to know before hand what powerband you want, or actually need. How you want your motor to operate, and build from there. If a super high revving motor is still what you want, then a B16 or slightly modified GSR seems like, to me, your best bet

blazzer

the interwebz. most of what you said there i def. do not agree with.

althoughy i agree a b16b or b18 is what i am looking for, the k or b in my OP as original question was answered and a K is not for me, at least not right now.

as for how i build it yes i agree with little that you said, but i know how i want to build it. kindly thank you for your opinion