Got Spoool

Hey everyone. I bought my car with this swap and I have some questions.

Car has a JDM B16a with 91 stamped on the block. It has the 2nd gen intake manifold and a hydrolic tranny. Now here's the weird part. The car has a PR3 ecu, and has 2 o2 sensors wired up. The 2nd o2 before the cat is 3 wire, but the plug harness has 4 wires coming to it. One of those wires isn't connected.

Is my car ODB 2? The motor is an ODB-1 isnt it? How is this possible?

I've been getting a CEL the other week and i checked it and it said secondary o2 (Code 2). Also the car is running richer and when i hold any rpm for 3-4 seconds the car boggs slightly and loses power unless I press the gas harder.

Would changing my o2 with a 4-wire work, or should i just change it with a 3-wire and hack wire it back in with what I already got.

Does anyone know what's going on with my swap?

Any info is appreciated.

Katman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Got Spoool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey everyone. I bought my car with this swap and I have some questions.

Car has a JDM B16a with 91 stamped on the block. It has the 2nd gen intake manifold and a hydrolic tranny. Now here's the weird part. The car has a PR3 ecu, and has 2 o2 sensors wired up. The 2nd o2 before the cat is 3 wire, but the plug harness has 4 wires coming to it. One of those wires isn't connected.

Is my car ODB 2? The motor is an ODB-1 isnt it? How is this possible?

I've been getting a CEL the other week and i checked it and it said secondary o2 (Code 2). Also the car is running richer and when i hold any rpm for 3-4 seconds the car boggs slightly and loses power unless I press the gas harder.

Would changing my o2 with a 4-wire work, or should i just change it with a 3-wire and hack wire it back in with what I already got.

Does anyone know what's going on with my swap?

Any info is appreciated.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It sounds like *maybe* your civic has a JDM 92-93 integra (XSi/RSi) engine and a a hydro tranny was applied to it. I say this because you said your ecu is a PR3, which I assume is the OBD1 PR3 ecu. You should be using a 4-wire 02 sensor btw, so whatever your running, make sure you convert it to a 4-wire 02 sensor.

I think pictures would better help diagnose your situation. Can you get a few pictures up? would need pictures of these items:

- your PR3 ecu plugs
- your distributor
- a top view of your engine

also, take a look on your head @ the area between your distributor and vtec solenoid and see if you have this raised "30" number:


..thats a dead giveaway you have a 2nd gen B16 engine (or head at least)

Got Spoool

Katman:
I just checked and yes I have the 30 engraved in that spot.

I gotta run and pick up some rims, but I'll take those pictures when i get back and post them. One question though, if my car is ODB1, why is there an o2 sensor before the cat? Or is that the primary o2? I was under the assumption that the primary was in the header?

I'm asking this because I pulled an ecu code: 2, which is secondary o2. Well I'm pretty sure its 2, if its 20: Electrical load detector, what does that mean just in case?

Thanks,

Torrey

Got Spoool

Here's a quick picture at the hack job of my O2 thats right before the cat.

Three wires are hooked up while one isnt. If I replace it with a 4-wire I'm scared it might not run well or at all... Or would I be fine (all the same ****)?

Got Spoool

Here's the pictures...


Also, printed on the block is PR3-i, I dont know what that means.

Here's the 30 printed by the vtec solonoid.



Here's a shot of the side of the ecu.



My dirty *** motor, going to clean this **** up next week.









So which secondary O2 am I supposed to be using?
Anyhelp is appreciated.

zer0.

from the pics i can see that it is an OBD I motor. look below "B16A" on your block...your motor is a 5 million series,1 million series are pre OBD

Got Spoool

If its odb I, then why do I have a secondary o2 sensor? And why did i get a CEL with code 2 if its ODB I?

Would replacing it with a 4-wire work?

4gCRX

PR3 ecu's are obd-0, 5million series means the engine/ecu came out of a Teg XSi. Your car is obd-I. http://www.hondata.com/ecus.html

I have a heated 4 wire o2 for my 91 CRX with the same engine/ecu as yours and it works fine. Not sure about your wiring though.

Got Spoool

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4gCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PR3 ecu's are obd-0, 5million series means the engine/ecu came out of a Teg XSi. Your car is obd-I. http://www.hondata.com/ecus.html

I have a heated 4 wire o2 for my 91 CRX with the same engine/ecu as yours and it works fine. Not sure about your wiring though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the reply.
How can my wiring differ? What should I look for?

4gCRX

Not sure, everything I have researched is pre-1992. May not be any difference but if I were you I'd search before I went to splicing and spending. One more thing, when I said I have the same engine I meant I have the same block. I do not know if I have the 30 stamped on my head.

Got Spoool

anyone else???

Katman

ok first off, to clear up misinformation that the others here have spewed..

"5 million series" or "5 series" B16's are NOT just OBD-1 engines -- there are 5 series OBD-0 engines too!

I don't why a lot of people rely on the "1 series/ 5 series" thing of a way of identifying a B16A's OBD type. Its a very minimal, unreliable way of ID'ing a B16's OBD type.

2nd..
THERE ARE OBD-0 & OBD-1 PR3 ecu's!
The OBD1 PR3 ecu is slightly rare, but there's nothing special about it. The onboard hardware is exactly like a US P30 ecu, just with a PR3 part number sticker on the side of the ecu casing. Thats it.


Got Spool...
I'm sorry, but thats a really shitty picture of the ecu you took. Use the MACRO button! (little flower icon on your digital camera). If that PR3 ecu plugged directly into your EG hatchback, then it IS OBD1 spec. Maybe you can take picture of the ecu plugs for us this time around (using the macro button!) ?

The "PR3-1" part number on the backside of your engine block is normal for all 89-00 B16A engines. Its just a cast part number Honda uses on all of their B16A blocks, since all B16's all use the same cast. Its not suppose to be "P30-1" if thats what you're wondering. Your engine does looks like a legit 2nd gen (OBD1) B16A engine though.

There's no such code as "code 2", as I just checked. Your ECU should only be looking for single 4-wire 02 sensor. OBD1 ecu's only look for 1 02 sensor.

I'm betting you're getting code 20 which is ELD. Usually the ELD code is thrown when some sensor is not connected or having trouble being read by the ECU....so the ecu throws the ELD code in conjunction with whatever sensor is unplugged or having trouble being read by the ecu.

When you check your codes, are you getting to 2 long blinks or 2 short blinks? or wut?

btw,
2 short blinks = *shrugs shoulders*
2 long blinks = ELD.

I'm pretty sure you're getting an ELD because of your 02 situation. Don't be a scurred Canukka. Try to wire in that 4th 02 wire...your car will still run like it does now, if not better. In fact, you can totally unplug the 02 and your car still runs fine...try it...just to see my point.



Modified by Katman at 11:58 AM 5/4/2004

Got Spoool

Katman:

This all started after I got my exedy clutch installed. So the possibility of a sensor being unplugged is likely. I tried checking a few weeks back becuase I thought it was an ELD code as well. I had no luck finding a disconnected sensor.

This problem is connected to my weird misfire/stumble when I hold any rpm above 3000rpm for more than 3 seconds. Holding any rpm for 3 sec or more espically on the hwy, the car loses power and slows down unless i give it more gas. This is why im thinking it's an O2 related problem. Then I checked my O2 and was surprised I saw it like it is with only 3 wires connected (its a 3 wire o2 so there's no 4th wire).

Is that my primary o2? or is the primary in my header?

I'll take that picture of the ECU pins when I get home from work. When I checked the ecu code, it was my 1st time checking them before so it was hard to distinguish between a long and short blink, but from what my buddies told me last night it is a code 20.

So I should get another code after the code 20?

Katman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Got Spoool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Katman:
Is that my primary o2? or is the primary in my header?

I'll take that picture of the ECU pins when I get home from work.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes its your primary 02.
OBD1 engines only use a single 4-wire 02 sensor. I don't why you have 2 02 sensors on your engine. Perhaps the guy you bought your motor from put an older 89-91 B16 exhaust manifold on it, which has two 1-wire 02 sensor in the upper half backside section of the exhaust manifold. OBD1 engines usually have the 4-wire 02 sensor located on the downpipe, right in front of the flange that meets up with the cat (as seen below on the ITR downpipe), or right at the base of the upper section of the exhaust manifold (right where the downpipe connects)

Got Spoool

Yeah thats where that weird O2 is right before the cat like that ITR one.

I bought the car with the swap already done, otherwise I would have done a GSR swap. So that o2 that I'm seeing before the cat is my primary afterall. Because I can't see any wires or anything coming from under the exhaust manifold heat sheild.

Katman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Got Spoool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah thats where that weird O2 is right before the cat like that ITR one.

I bought the car with the swap already done, otherwise I would have done a GSR swap. So that o2 that I'm seeing before the cat is my primary afterall. Because I can't see any wires or anything coming from under the exhaust manifold heat sheild.</TD></TR></TABLE>


yep, thats right.
My 02 is in the same spot as seen on the ITR E/M, and I'm running a JG/Edelebrock header. So, its totally OK to have the 02 there - There's nothing odd/weird about having it there either.

Just mess around with the 4-wires on your 02 and see if the ELD code will go away once you figured out the wiring. The other thing to try, is resetting the ecu. Sometimes (rarely) the ELD code is stuck in the memory and needs to be cleared out. You can either unplug the ecu for about a minute or pull the ECU fuse in the engine bay, to clear the ecu's memory.

Got Spoool

Thanks!

You've helped out a lot.

I'm going to replace the o2 with a 4 wire one with the harness included so theres no more splicing. I'll reset the ecu again before and after I do the o2 swap to see if it'll go away.

I'm also going to check/change my plugs as well.

Katman

word good luck.

helpmeplease

hey katman its seems that u know more about this then me.

i have a question.

can i a put an 89 crx 1.6 si head on a 92 cx 1.5 civic engine block

Katman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by helpmeplease &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey katman its seems that u know more about this then me.

i have a question.

can i a put an 89 crx 1.6 si head on a 92 cx 1.5 civic engine block </TD></TR></TABLE>


..that I'm not sure of, but I *assume* you can, because you can mount an A6 head on any 92+ SOHC DX/Si/VX/EX block.

I'm just not sure if the 92-95 CX block is any different than those other engine blocks because its the only one outta the bunch with a 12valve head, but thats just the head, the block is probably the same.

What you can do is take a CX headgasket and match it up to an A6 headgasket and that should tell you yay or nay.

helpmeplease

thanks a lot.

i have a port polished si head , around how much horse power would i gain with
this head?

this is my first project

Katman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by helpmeplease &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have a port polished si head , around how much horse power would i gain with
this head?

this is my first project</TD></TR></TABLE>

(newb question)

I have no idea...
all companies who port heads have their own special way of porting, they're not all the same. So its not easy to give out a HP # cuz other factors play a role ontop of having the head ported such as what cams your going to run, header, reprogammed ecu, ported throttlebody, etc...

only the dyno will tell you what kind of before & after power you'll be making...

helpmeplease

ill do that.

iwas going to do that swap with the si head tomorow, but my 92 distributor
dont fit on that head. i took out my distributor a few min ago and
messure it with the head and the hole on the si head its smaller than the one on
my cx head.i guess i have to wait till i get the 89 distributor.