xrtdac

Does anyone know what I need to really do as far as swapping stuff over. From what I understand all I need is the B20 block and thats about it.

Plus what is the difference between the B and the Z? would I be able to use the Z as easily as the B?


[Modified by xrtdac, 1:56 PM 10/22/2002]

xrtdac

TIMAAAAAAAAAAAyyyyyeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhh. Anyone.... anyone.....

poison

all you need is the B20 block.

B20B is lower compression (8.8) and B20Z is 9.6.

here are the specs

http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/b20/b20tech.html

xrtdac

I thought the Z had that Ivtec stuff. Oh well.

Anyone know which one is stronger as far as to get more power out of them? From waht I ehar you can take those bad boys to a lil bit over 300 to the ground without any worries on stock internals.

Archidictus

get the B20B. they're fine for what you'll be doing to them. 8.0:1 CR is insane

xrtdac

yeah but doesn't the Z start with more HP?

either way I am looking for what will help me to get more to the 300 HP to the ground area. I didn;t want to push my LS end past 245 to the ground cause of all stock internals.

ahcjar103

you'll need the LS intake manifold. otherwise, everything else is basically the same.

twitchm80

I've herd that the b20's are not strong as LS blocks, so why would you not just spend your money on pistons and rods? Safer and even more boost, btw the z does start with more hp but its mainlt due to the bumbed compression

Brad

As ahcjar103 said you need to swap the intake manifold... also the crank pulley, and if you don't want to rewire the b20 distributor, swap that. The JDM b20b has the same higher hp as the USDM b20Z, while USDM b20b has less hp, but a lower compression ratio. 300 hp is pushing it on stock internals, there's been a lot of posts about people saying how weak the b20 cylinder walls are..might as well push the ls to 300hp and swap in the b20 when the ls blows

Brad

xrtdac

I am still trying to figure out why my motor can't seem to generate more than 5 PSI and all that with different controllers, turbos, wastegates and everything. Now taht it is getting cold it is getting up to 8PSI but that is not as high as it used to be.

racerxadam

the b20 and the ls use the same bottom end except for bore size and the b20 sleeves are weak

wickedxboi

just stick with the ls and boost more.

B20Coupe

as far as what brad said... the jdm b20b and the usdm b20b...they are the same...the b20z does have higher compresion...but i dont know if you would want to have that with your turbo set up...usually lower CR is better, but i guess that all depends on what you want. As far as the sleeves being weak, most of the people that break there sleeves push like 16lbs, (i dont know how there tunning was)...which is dumb, plane and simple, if you want to push alot of boost then be sure it is built to handle it, ive seen a post with a b20 turbo and it had something like 245ish hp...and some mid 200 lbs of trq, but dont quote me...im most likely wrong, and another thing, what alot of ppl seem to have the problem with is there car leaning out and detonating, so its all about the tunning!!!

xrtdac

Well I am at 231.4 (9psi) to the wheels already with my LS set-up. with 204 torque.

I would only get teh B20 to about 300 to the ground. on 10 PSi from what I have seen. Plus I would have a block guard in there as well to help the sleeves out.

Brad

turbo size makes a difference. If you use your same turbo on the b20 at 10psi it may be difficult to make 70 more hp with just .2 more liters and 1 psi. You could try a bigger turbo on your ls if you set on 300hp on 10-12psi.
Brad

brad.

OT but hey my names Brad too!@

boostinb18

hey man the b20 has very weak sleeves, and what do you mean that you cant boost past 5 psi???? that makes no sense...... your motor has nothing to do with the amount of boost you are pushing! and you can get well over 300 WHP from a LS with tuning! at relatively low boost.......... direp or arturbo at 277 Whp at 7.5 PSI of boost on a stock internally LS wtih hondata...... so instead of wasting your money on a b20 block, tune your LS!

xrtdac

He also has a heella more than just the hondata and a turbo. that is beyond unreal to make that number with just all stock everything. He porobably has cams as well as 3" exhaust is my guess.
I would love to see that dyno chart too on 7.5 PSI.

My friggin LS is tuned. We tuned it on the dyno with tuning the regulator, the FMU with different risers, an AFC and the dyno Air Fuel meter. PLus we played with timing and everything.

The engine can have everything to do with why it can;t boost pased 5 PSI. ever hear of Compression problems, leaks in gaskets, bent valves...so on and so on. Thats just a few ways the engine can stop a turbo from boostin passed 5 psi. and we still can't figure it out. I have Brent Rau's tuning guys working on it and they can't seem to find it either. We have tried everything. Next thing is breaking down the block and putting all new gaskets in as well as some other stuff.

Side note. The LS internals (all stock) wont last too long when they are being pushed passed 260 to the ground. That is pretty well known.

I am overly frustrated with people right now so please excuse my pissed offness.


[Modified by xrtdac, 2:32 PM 10/27/2002]

xrtdac

The turbo size will not create more HP. If I am pushing 10PSI with a t-25 into my enigne. THE ENGINE WILL ONLY SEE 10PSI. if I do it with my T3/T4 on 10 PSI. IT WILL STILL SEE ONLY 10 PSI. So how is it that if one or the other doesn't put anymore air in than the other at the same boost pressure, how is it going to generate more power. 10 psi is 10 psi no matter how big your turbo is. The only thing that may change is torque due to faster spool up. thats all. Bigger turbo's are used to run more boost and thats how you get more power. you don;t get more power using a bigger turbo on the same PSI.

Like I said, 10 psi is 10 psi no matter the size of your turbo.

boostinb18

sorry buddy but you will get much more power from a t3/t04e at 10 psi then a t-25 its called turbo efficiency!! that t-25 is super heating that air at 10pis probably somewhere in the 60-65% efficiency range which is very bad!! while the t3/t04e will be in the high 70's-maybe 80's................and arturbos motor is stock...cams and all he does have 3" exhaust thats all...... and do a comp test and a leak down test to check for bent valves blown rings or head gasket before you tear the block down!!! if you have these great tuners why the hell are you going to tear down the motor before you know the hell is wrong with it!!! and you really need to go to the forced induction forum since they know a lot more about this stuff then the hybrid forum!!! try to tell them that 10psi t25 will put otu the same power as a t3/t04e or a t3 60-1 they will laugh at you!

xrtdac

hey buddy. once again. the efficiency plays a minor factor. not a friggin 65-70HP gain because of a change in a turbo size. Plus you were saying I should upgrade from a t3/T4 to something bigger.

I was just using the comparison of the size of turbo doesn;t matter as to how much boost your produce, 10 psi is 10 psi. You saying I should go bigger than my turbo right now makes no sense cause the size of it going larger isn;t gonna net me 65-70HP on the same psi. It would take a lot more to do that.

The 3" exhaust alone on that turbo set-up is what is really helping his turbo set-up. Plus I find it still hard to believe that number though on such a low psi.

boostinb18

lets see here.....

where did i say that in any of my posts??

next....efficiency plays a huge factor.... irght now i have td04h-15g sohc greddy turboo on my b18b in my crx and at 7 psi it sucks *** because it is too small for the motor....... right now its not much faster then a LS crx without a turbo! because im way past the efficiency of the turbo!!! im pushing out way too much air for that turbo to handle!!! if i have this turbo on and put it against a t3/t04e utrbod LS crx he would be pushing SOOOOOOOO much more power then me!!! you obviously dont know what you are talking about! so go do some research then come back and talk to me!

and arturbo is know very well on here and by a lot of people on here in real life.... those numbers are true!! and the exhaust is not going to add 150 hp or somethin!! sorry!

chidoks

the b20 has sleeves that are weaker than ls sleeves... i know 'cos i have had the two motors before.....you are better off resleeving your ls to 84mm...that way you have stronger sleeves and 2.0 just like a b20...and you can boost as much as you want with the right fuel and engine management.... Artturbo is running a built gsr with a t3/t04e.... i dont rememer the specs...and he has a 3-inch exhaust and some other mods...his turbo is big hence the impressive 277whp at 7.25 psi plus he has a better flowing head of a gsr... Direp on the other hand has 277whp at 12psi and 550cc injectors and some other minor mods....and an exhaust...of course with a t3/t4 turbo on a stock internalled b18b...cant remember the specs either......


[Modified by chidoks, 3:17 PM 10/28/2002]

chidoks

The TURBO SIZE WILL CREATE MORE HP. Every turbo has an efficiency range and can flow in a certain amount of air(cfm) at every boost pressure... 10 psi on a t-25 and 10psi on a t3/t4 is a big difference..because each turbo flows in a certain amount of air at a certain psi... Power is achieved by a mixture of fuel, air and spark... The more air that is being pushed into the engine, the more power it will make...as long as there is sufficient fuel and spark to compensate for it. So a t3/t4 turbo pushing in a lot more air than a t-25 turbo will make more power at the same psi...So a bigger turbo would help...if all turbos flow the same at the same psi, hardcore racers would be running mitsubishi t-25's and 14b's since they are so cheap... You need to let your b18b breathe....Port and polish your head, get cams, get a 3-inch exhaust, maybe an intake manifold and if everything else fails get a bigger turbo...fyi, the difference between a t-25 and a big t3/t4 can be as much as 70hp at 10 psi, depending on tuning....

Arturbo

For the record, DIRep972 and I, both have a stock motor. I made 277whp 200ft. lbs with the fmu set up on 7.5psi-8psi on a GSR. Now, this was just on a simple set up with fmu and stock injectors(not recomended), 3" thermal exhaust 3" downpipe. Before the 3" exhaust I made 266whp and here is the dyno to prove it, again everything stock to the computer, block and head.


Here is a dyno that I did with slightly larger turbo at the same boost level but different set up from above. Again, everything is stock but I now have AEM EMS 550cc injectors, Precision SC44 turbo(bad *** turbo), Inline PRO manifold and the same 3" downpipe and exhaust.


And one of me spiking to 15psi because the WG line came off.



Now onto DIRep972 set up. Again, stock motor but an LS. He has 550cc injecotors, hondata, Rev-hard turbo kit, and the same 3" downpipe and 3" thermal. We both almost the same exact set up but his is a LS and mine is a Gsr. On the simple FMU setup he made 230whp. Here is the dyno with the latest set at 12.5psi.



Here is a video us racing:
http://turbomafia.com/Arturbo/videos/turbotegsupra.wmv

I have no reason to BS anyone. I tell exactly what I have if they ask. If you say we cant do it on, then fine. Trying to argue the fact that we do would be trying to explain that God does excist to someone who doesnt believe.

art