H2B Swap
10-07-2016, 09:00 AM
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H2B Swap
Hey what's up everyone I know there is probably a million threads already covering this topic but I was hoping to get some guidance along the way to make sure I run into as few problems as possible. So with that being said I am currently starting a new project a complete H2B swap. I plan on building the motor before I put it in the car so I can attempt to squeeze every bit of power out of this motor.
Ok so I recently obtained a 94 civic hatch with a b16a2 engine swap. I am not entirely sure about what model hatch yet as I am still waiting to get the car from jersey down to NC. My first question is would I be able to just use the B16 Tranny that I currently have in the hatch with the H22 engine?
My total budget for this project is $10k. If you guys have any suggestions as well as what parts to get or what brand would work best would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
I will post pics up of the hatch once I get it down here.
Ok so I recently obtained a 94 civic hatch with a b16a2 engine swap. I am not entirely sure about what model hatch yet as I am still waiting to get the car from jersey down to NC. My first question is would I be able to just use the B16 Tranny that I currently have in the hatch with the H22 engine?
My total budget for this project is $10k. If you guys have any suggestions as well as what parts to get or what brand would work best would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
I will post pics up of the hatch once I get it down here.
10-08-2016, 07:21 AM
#2
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Re: H2B Swap
You're answer is easily found with the simplest of searching, but I'll humor you. Yes, you can use your b16 trans.
Also, have you built a motor/Honda before?
Also, have you built a motor/Honda before?
10-08-2016, 07:59 AM
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Re: H2B Swap
I understand that and i already knew the answer but i am the type of person who likes to be thorough and consider all avenues of approach, but i appreciate the answer.
Also personally i have not build a honda motor before thus the reason for asking for advice however i like to believe i have the mechanical aptitide to be able to perform the swap. Not to mention i have already done exstensive research on the swap. I would just like help to try and make this journey as painless as possible though i am fully aware of the Headaches this hobby brings.
10-09-2016, 09:11 AM
#4
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Re: H2B Swap
To be honest, I'm still in the process of my first build. I've never swapped a motor before. From the time I got my motor to now, it's spanned 3 years. Buying parts here and there, working on it during the weekends only, limited budget, etc. I've tucked the fuel system, brake lines, wires, and just resprayed the bay yesterday. Which I'm going to have to basically redo once it's fully cured. Ugh.
My point is, I've never done ANY of this before. These are ALL firsts for me. So, if I had any advice at all, it would be to make a checklist of EVERY SINGLE PART you need to make your motor run. Nuts, bolts, sensors, gaskets, liquids, and of course the guts and bolt ons. Wait to accumulate all your parts at once, then you can assemble your motor over the course of a weekend or something.
Another thing I've learned, is that I should have just bought the simple, necessary items to swap my H2B. I would have been driving it two years ago had I of done that and I could have put new parts on here and there over time. I don't know, just my experience.
My point is, I've never done ANY of this before. These are ALL firsts for me. So, if I had any advice at all, it would be to make a checklist of EVERY SINGLE PART you need to make your motor run. Nuts, bolts, sensors, gaskets, liquids, and of course the guts and bolt ons. Wait to accumulate all your parts at once, then you can assemble your motor over the course of a weekend or something.
Another thing I've learned, is that I should have just bought the simple, necessary items to swap my H2B. I would have been driving it two years ago had I of done that and I could have put new parts on here and there over time. I don't know, just my experience.
10-09-2016, 12:04 PM
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Re: H2B Swap
To be honest, I'm still in the process of my first build. I've never swapped a motor before. From the time I got my motor to now, it's spanned 3 years. Buying parts here and there, working on it during the weekends only, limited budget, etc. I've tucked the fuel system, brake lines, wires, and just resprayed the bay yesterday. Which I'm going to have to basically redo once it's fully cured. Ugh.
My point is, I've never done ANY of this before. These are ALL firsts for me. So, if I had any advice at all, it would be to make a checklist of EVERY SINGLE PART you need to make your motor run. Nuts, bolts, sensors, gaskets, liquids, and of course the guts and bolt ons. Wait to accumulate all your parts at once, then you can assemble your motor over the course of a weekend or something.
Another thing I've learned, is that I should have just bought the simple, necessary items to swap my H2B. I would have been driving it two years ago had I of done that and I could have put new parts on here and there over time. I don't know, just my experience.
My point is, I've never done ANY of this before. These are ALL firsts for me. So, if I had any advice at all, it would be to make a checklist of EVERY SINGLE PART you need to make your motor run. Nuts, bolts, sensors, gaskets, liquids, and of course the guts and bolt ons. Wait to accumulate all your parts at once, then you can assemble your motor over the course of a weekend or something.
Another thing I've learned, is that I should have just bought the simple, necessary items to swap my H2B. I would have been driving it two years ago had I of done that and I could have put new parts on here and there over time. I don't know, just my experience.
10-11-2016, 07:30 PM
#7
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Re: H2B Swap
Can i see your evo kit setup with this clutch adapter, or can someone tell me how does it get used or function.
OP, what is your desired parts list so far?
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10-12-2016, 08:34 AM
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Re: H2B Swap
Well I don't have an exact parts list so far I am more or less picking as I go. If you have any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. As I stated before my whole budget for this project is $10k, my whole idea is to basically build the entire motor from the bottom up, wiseco pistons, eagle rods, titanium valve springs etc. However I do have I question that maybe you can answer. So from my understanding with just the swap alone with everything stock I could be looking at possibly high 12s atleast according to a friend of mine who has a stock H22 swap in an EM1. Is this true? and secondly what would the difference in power be if I were to build the motor vs just doing a H2b swap stock? if there isn't any significant difference in power besides the fact of reinforcing the engine then I may just choose to do the swap Stock. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
10-12-2016, 07:59 PM
#9
Re: H2B Swap
Hello!
You want to do a fully built motor... Fully built to what. You want to go all motor, turbo or nitrous. You have a $10k budget that you are planning to spent when, immidiately? If that is the case I suggest you to go turbo and aim at least for 600+Hp. As the other guy says, you can have a $10k budget, but may spent a few years to build it. I am building an h2b del Sol which have been sitting around like two years.
Do the reaserch. Also take into account that the H22 cylinders are FRM, which means fiber reinforced metal. In other words to put "Wiseco" pistons you will need Darton sleeves or similar. Those are over $1k to start. The only pistons I know that work on FRM are MAHLE gold series, but heard they are good for 600+Hp.
About the 12s stock. Maybe completely plain stock not, but mild mods it can be done. You are buying a car with a swap already. It will depend also on how build is the 94 already. If it does have good suspension, LSD, brakes, programmable ECU, etc. then you will just need the h22 and the mods you want to add. If not take all those into account.
However will be fun to build it! And please buy a kit for the swap.
You want to do a fully built motor... Fully built to what. You want to go all motor, turbo or nitrous. You have a $10k budget that you are planning to spent when, immidiately? If that is the case I suggest you to go turbo and aim at least for 600+Hp. As the other guy says, you can have a $10k budget, but may spent a few years to build it. I am building an h2b del Sol which have been sitting around like two years.
Do the reaserch. Also take into account that the H22 cylinders are FRM, which means fiber reinforced metal. In other words to put "Wiseco" pistons you will need Darton sleeves or similar. Those are over $1k to start. The only pistons I know that work on FRM are MAHLE gold series, but heard they are good for 600+Hp.
About the 12s stock. Maybe completely plain stock not, but mild mods it can be done. You are buying a car with a swap already. It will depend also on how build is the 94 already. If it does have good suspension, LSD, brakes, programmable ECU, etc. then you will just need the h22 and the mods you want to add. If not take all those into account.
However will be fun to build it! And please buy a kit for the swap.
10-12-2016, 08:15 PM
#12
Re: H2B Swap
H22A
Know that there are two common H22. The 92-97 are closed deck and main crank bore are smaller (I think 50mm), and 98+ which is open deck and main bore of the crank is bigger (I think 55mm). Both are great but if you are not going to sleeve it, the older as is closed deck, is stronger.
Know that there are two common H22. The 92-97 are closed deck and main crank bore are smaller (I think 50mm), and 98+ which is open deck and main bore of the crank is bigger (I think 55mm). Both are great but if you are not going to sleeve it, the older as is closed deck, is stronger.
Last edited by gmcuajo1; 10-14-2016 at 03:26 PM.
10-12-2016, 08:18 PM
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Re: H2B Swap
Hello!
You want to do a fully built motor... Fully built to what. You want to go all motor, turbo or nitrous. You have a $10k budget that you are planning to spent when, immidiately? If that is the case I suggest you to go turbo and aim at least for 600+Hp. As the other guy says, you can have a $10k budget, but may spent a few years to build it. I am building an h2b del Sol which have been sitting around like two years.
Do the reaserch. Also take into account that the H22 cylinders are FRM, which means fiber reinforced metal. In other words to put "Wiseco" pistons you will need Darton sleeves or similar. Those are over $1k to start. The only pistons I know that work on FRM are MAHLE gold series, but heard they are good for 600+Hp.
About the 12s stock. Maybe completely plain stock not, but mild mods it can be done. You are buying a car with a swap already. It will depend also on how build is the 94 already. If it does have good suspension, LSD, brakes, programmable ECU, etc. then you will just need the h22 and the mods you want to add. If not take all those into account.
However will be fun to build it! And please buy a kit for the swap.
You want to do a fully built motor... Fully built to what. You want to go all motor, turbo or nitrous. You have a $10k budget that you are planning to spent when, immidiately? If that is the case I suggest you to go turbo and aim at least for 600+Hp. As the other guy says, you can have a $10k budget, but may spent a few years to build it. I am building an h2b del Sol which have been sitting around like two years.
Do the reaserch. Also take into account that the H22 cylinders are FRM, which means fiber reinforced metal. In other words to put "Wiseco" pistons you will need Darton sleeves or similar. Those are over $1k to start. The only pistons I know that work on FRM are MAHLE gold series, but heard they are good for 600+Hp.
About the 12s stock. Maybe completely plain stock not, but mild mods it can be done. You are buying a car with a swap already. It will depend also on how build is the 94 already. If it does have good suspension, LSD, brakes, programmable ECU, etc. then you will just need the h22 and the mods you want to add. If not take all those into account.
However will be fun to build it! And please buy a kit for the swap.
Now as i stated before aside from the whole fact of this mostly being something to keep me occupied. My whole reasoning for this endeavor is to build a motor that will produce the most bang for buck not to mention something that will cap out so suddenly meaning even though 600+ hp may not be realistic in my case as for me wanting to keep the vehicle as a daily driver for as long as i can before i just decide to leave it to the track but i would like to know that it is a possibility.
And also as for my previous question would there be a significant difference in power as to a fully stock H2B vs a built H2B ? Aside from adding any NOS or forced induction of course.
BTW thank you gmcuajo1 for the input on the pistons will definitely be looking into that.
10-12-2016, 08:42 PM
#15
Re: H2B Swap
Definitely built h22 will give you more power than stock.
Stock h22/h2b with intake, header and tuning will be around 200Hp. Add some mild mods and will easily go to 220~230Hp. Know that going NA will cost you the most for the less gain in power, and will require the very best combination of parts and tuning.
If you don't need to spend in chassis parts and the $10k budget is mostly for the swap, go turbo. NA's FWD in the 9s are great but they are over $25k and a lot of years of experience and trial and error. Can build a turbo and still drive on the street as any other car. If that civic will be 1-2 years on a garage it definitely won't be your daily drive.
Stock h22/h2b with intake, header and tuning will be around 200Hp. Add some mild mods and will easily go to 220~230Hp. Know that going NA will cost you the most for the less gain in power, and will require the very best combination of parts and tuning.
If you don't need to spend in chassis parts and the $10k budget is mostly for the swap, go turbo. NA's FWD in the 9s are great but they are over $25k and a lot of years of experience and trial and error. Can build a turbo and still drive on the street as any other car. If that civic will be 1-2 years on a garage it definitely won't be your daily drive.
10-12-2016, 08:54 PM
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Re: H2B Swap
Well, it seems rather common sense that a fully built motor would make considerably more power than a stock on with bolt ons.
Yes, a well tuned primarily stock H2B w/ bolt ons is capable of high 12's with the right driver/amount of seat time.
If 10k truly is your budget, you have an option here to make a decently quick car and still have money left over if done right. You could use H23A1 rods with your stock pistons for increased compression, about 12:1 from what I've read. Find Michael Jones on FB. Follow his recipe. This is his info he's posted in the H2B and F2B owners group on FB:
CHEAPEST 12.1 H SERIES BOTTOM END Ok guys I'm always looking for the cheapest, easiest way to make the most hp. It seems that people are scared to run type s pistons and are not sure which ones to run. Everybody seems to love the h23 vtec and i do believe it's the best bang for the buck. I'm going to show you the easiest way to get to 250hp and then some. I have a ton of these threads stickied on Import Atlanta. I never realized how much they would help people for years to come when i wrote. I was just sick ( i have chrons disease) and in bed bored. H23 non vtec h beam rods used to be hard to find. They are not now, you can get them on ebay for 200 to 300 dollars and they work great. If you install h23 non vtec rods (stock or h beam ) into a h23 vtec bottom end with the stock pistons that come into the h23 vtec block you will have a 12.1 compression bottom end. That with a balance shaft delete kit will be good for 250hp plus with nothing but pro 2 cams and bolt ons. It's that easy and that cheap. That's on 93 octane pump gas to. If you have a low mileage Bottom and everything looks perfect change nothing but the rods. No need to worry about the frm sleeves and what's compatible because you are using the same pistons that came in the block originally. Same goes for h22a motors. Put a h23 crank and h23 non vtec rods with h22a pistons you will have a 12.1 compression bottom end. For everybody using the compression calculator its a tad off so don't post that it would be 11.5 to look like typy know something. Ive done both and cced them. Take the middle layer out of the head gasket if you want more compression. I lay the back of the valve reliefs back on the pistons ( which i will provide pictures of in this thread to help everybody ) to make sure there is no valve to piston contact. 10 minutes with any dremel tool will make sure even if you miss a gear nothing will contact each other on this build.
H23 vtec motor $850
H23 non vtec rods $50 stock , $250 h beam
Balance shaft removal kit $ $130
Pro 2s $400 used $860 new
Springs and retainers $300 used $500 new or you can find some type s ( or f20b manual) for $100 that work great.
Highend ( logic ) header $400 new
Ported oem intake $150 plus core ,from me
So for $2,000 to $2,500 from intake to header you can make 250hp on pump gas all day .
Yes, a well tuned primarily stock H2B w/ bolt ons is capable of high 12's with the right driver/amount of seat time.
If 10k truly is your budget, you have an option here to make a decently quick car and still have money left over if done right. You could use H23A1 rods with your stock pistons for increased compression, about 12:1 from what I've read. Find Michael Jones on FB. Follow his recipe. This is his info he's posted in the H2B and F2B owners group on FB:
CHEAPEST 12.1 H SERIES BOTTOM END Ok guys I'm always looking for the cheapest, easiest way to make the most hp. It seems that people are scared to run type s pistons and are not sure which ones to run. Everybody seems to love the h23 vtec and i do believe it's the best bang for the buck. I'm going to show you the easiest way to get to 250hp and then some. I have a ton of these threads stickied on Import Atlanta. I never realized how much they would help people for years to come when i wrote. I was just sick ( i have chrons disease) and in bed bored. H23 non vtec h beam rods used to be hard to find. They are not now, you can get them on ebay for 200 to 300 dollars and they work great. If you install h23 non vtec rods (stock or h beam ) into a h23 vtec bottom end with the stock pistons that come into the h23 vtec block you will have a 12.1 compression bottom end. That with a balance shaft delete kit will be good for 250hp plus with nothing but pro 2 cams and bolt ons. It's that easy and that cheap. That's on 93 octane pump gas to. If you have a low mileage Bottom and everything looks perfect change nothing but the rods. No need to worry about the frm sleeves and what's compatible because you are using the same pistons that came in the block originally. Same goes for h22a motors. Put a h23 crank and h23 non vtec rods with h22a pistons you will have a 12.1 compression bottom end. For everybody using the compression calculator its a tad off so don't post that it would be 11.5 to look like typy know something. Ive done both and cced them. Take the middle layer out of the head gasket if you want more compression. I lay the back of the valve reliefs back on the pistons ( which i will provide pictures of in this thread to help everybody ) to make sure there is no valve to piston contact. 10 minutes with any dremel tool will make sure even if you miss a gear nothing will contact each other on this build.
H23 vtec motor $850
H23 non vtec rods $50 stock , $250 h beam
Balance shaft removal kit $ $130
Pro 2s $400 used $860 new
Springs and retainers $300 used $500 new or you can find some type s ( or f20b manual) for $100 that work great.
Highend ( logic ) header $400 new
Ported oem intake $150 plus core ,from me
So for $2,000 to $2,500 from intake to header you can make 250hp on pump gas all day .
10-12-2016, 09:15 PM
#18
Re: H2B Swap
That is the set up I have. Not exactly the same but technically. I have an H22A with f22 crank (95mm) and f22 rods. The only thing is stock P13 h22 pistons have a "dehigh" and valve pockets done wrong. They are not symetrical etc. Look at the pic how bad is the cut on the piston dome. I bought it like that and it was running. Will run as is for some time then will swap the pistons and add a cam.
If you do that, still should check valve clearance just to be sure. Not saying that what is on previous post is wrong, but is better to check yourself
If you do that, still should check valve clearance just to be sure. Not saying that what is on previous post is wrong, but is better to check yourself
10-14-2016, 08:43 AM
#22
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Re: H2B Swap
Well, thank you all I appreciate the good info, for now I will put this thread on hold till I actually get the car down here hopefully this weekend and will post up some before pics so you can see what I am working with, the body is in alittle rough condition but nothing drastic. gmcuajo1 from what I have read most people do not recommend going turbo on these motors due to the FRM walls, Could you give me your opinion as to wether or not it is recommended and if so possibly what kind of power gains would I be looking at ?
10-14-2016, 03:16 PM
#23
Re: H2B Swap
FRM walls are as good as regular iron cilinders. Just have to be done well and the availibility of piston options, as far as I know, are stock or MAHLE gold series. S2000 F20C and F22C are also FRM's to give you an example
12-06-2016, 10:07 AM
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Re: H2B Swap
Ok so I have a question I am looking to go with the h22A1 closed deck. Now being that you can't just run any aftermarket pistons because of the FRM walls. Is sleeving the block the only option to help reinforce the walls ? What about CSS ? as I'm pretty doubtful being it is already a closed deck ?
12-06-2016, 07:50 PM
#25
Re: H2B Swap
Ok so I have a question I am looking to go with the h22A1 closed deck. Now being that you can't just run any aftermarket pistons because of the FRM walls. Is sleeving the block the only option to help reinforce the walls ? What about CSS ? as I'm pretty doubtful being it is already a closed deck ?
What is CSS?