pmptwst17

So I would like the advice of the community because for the past few months I have been collecting parts to start my build. Only thing is I cant decided what I want to do, due to the multiple snags and research I have been doing.

So here is the thing:

I got a 98 F23a1 short-block, looks to be in great shape also got the carfax and it said 9 mile was the last recorded mileage. Although looks can be deceiving, i haven't had time to tear it down and inspect everything.

I also have a full 98 H22a4 Long-block, only thing is i know the pistons are bad and the block is junk. Also haven't torn this down completely to see if i can salvage anything yet. The head is in great shape except for wear on the rocker assembly.

This is going to be a DD in my 97 Civic coupe with a d-series tranny.

So to my question, which is basically my Title.

Since its my DD I want it to be pretty reliable, but im new to the H/F series so i like covering all my angles. So its either gonna be the F23 bored to 87mm running the H22a4 Crank/Rods/New OEM Pistons and H22 head. Basically an Iron H22. Yes I know it will destroke it and I wont have as much torque. Im more worried about taking the F23 with weakened cylinder walls to the H22 Redline and not having the oil squirters . My other option is to just slap the H22 head on the F23 with stock bottom end and boost it with tuning on about 5-6lbs. Im not looking for lots of power, but I want more then what the 8.8:1 of the stock G23 would be, at least the H22 internals in the F23 with H22 head would yield close to stock H22 compression.

Krut

I think there is a lot more work involved than just "slapping" the H22 head on the F23 block if I remember correctly from the G23 threads, I'm kind of rusty though. If it were me I'd prob just keep the F23 stock and boost that, maybe some forged pistons/rods (that would make some pretty good power), will prob be more reliable, easier and cheaper than boosting on a hybrid build like that..but I'm no expert.

pmptwst17

Well here is the thing, im aware of what needs to be done besides just "slapping the h22 head on".

What im asking is given the 2 situations, not buying new pistons/rods, but rebuilding what is salvageable. if the only thing that is salvageable is is the stock f23 bottom end, then i will rebuild that and one of the 2 H22 heads and just run 8.8:1 until i boost it. It will be tuned on Honda S300 either way. I would prefer the F23a21 with the H22 internals, but dont believe that will be as reliable. This isn't necessarily a budget build but im not trying to spend **** tons of money because im not looking to make **** tons of power.

jakefalcons

imo you should just keep the f23 parts stock just freshen it up and make sure everything is in working order and put the h22 head on it. If you dont feel safe revving your engine to 8k then only go up to 6k. It just doesnt seem like itd be worth the hassle of using the h22 crank and pistons. or if you want to feel safe get some crower rods for your f23, thats what i did and engines been fine with the occasional trip to 8k+ tach only goes up to 8 lol. I would also recomend you get your water pump pulley tach welded on just to be safe mine came off and screwed up my valves

pmptwst17

Thats what im leaning towards but i really want more then just the 8.8:1 compression, i feel like its just gonna be sluggish. Thats why the H22 crank is in question, i dont mind destroking it to get the 10.2:1 or similar of a stock H22a4, its the boring and weaking of the stock walls that's the concern, and the non existent oil squirters and taking it to the H22 redline. What kinda compression are you running Jakefalcons, cause for you to have crower rods im sure you will have more internal work than me.

jakefalcons

i did the cookie cutter build 12.5 k24 pistons

wwcrxww

do the k series pistons have the same size wrist pins as the f series? were there any mods you had to make to mate the k series pistons to the f series rods? or can you use the k series rods in the f series block? are the main journals the same size? lol sorry for all of the questions but im very interested and curious

somethingClever

I also have the same question, kinda. I know the k series are 180 degrees off from the F so you have to rotate them otherwise there is a 20mm (not sure of unit of measure) offset which will mess you up. So rotate 180 and it works 10mm left + 10mm right = center....The thing about that that I am unsure of is longevity. Pirate posted about it in a few other threads about them not lasting as long, and custom pistons will last longer, in the long run. The issue, for me, is I do not understand how to order custom pistons, the info needed, etc. But I am most interested in longevity with fun. I am looking at trying to get 11.5:1 (k20a3 would work) N/A just because it seems much cheaper than 8.8 + boost.

pmptwst17

From my understanding only the f23 and i believe maybe...MAYBE the 98+ preludes with the h22 because the H22a4 and F23a1 have the same 55mm main journals. That is my understanding of the k pistons on on the f/h rods. They both have a floating wrist pin set up instead of needing to be pressed onto the rods.

lenz973

Nice write up fellas, I'm going through the same process now. I was getting ready to build an all motor g23 with sk2 stage 3 tuner series cams and stock kseries pistons. I'm feeling like I should use wiseco instead for higher compression. This will also be my DD, I m worried about longevity. Why don't these g23s last long? What goes on them? I will drive mine like a baby with the occasional high rev. No races, just reliable fun. I want to be between 230-240 hp. I don t want to run a h22

lenz973

Pirate thanks for the response, I do want this to work and last like there's no tomorrow. Without going into a long drawn out story. I had a 99 accord that I sent to get built 6yrs ago. I just got the shell back this spring with a bunch of parts. as of now I own two accords, a few turbo parts, 2 h22 heads built and 2 f23 longblocks. I have the sk2 cams but don't want to get rid of them and not be able to use them. even though they're tuner series, you think I should run the type s cams on the stock k pistons instead of the wiseco 11.7 on the stg3s? I'm not good enough to do my own work but I have back up cars just in case. Ppl here treat h's like they're junk and only want me to work with b's and k's. I just want to pick your brain Pirate and do it 1x and right. if something minor happens I'm willing to accept that but I just didn't know how reliable it was going to be. I will push the daily from time to time but I won't redline it and ride it like that every single day. lmk pirate 6yrs.

sickdime

thats the truth

lenz973

Sohc as a daily? Not gonna work. Hondas were made to be modified. Lol I have the $ to spend, I want to do it and do it right.

hondasdohc

I got a g22 vtec it has 3000 miles so far and nothing is going wrong rev it to like 8k with no problems and this block has like 260,xxx miles on it runs like a champ. the compression does suck a little cause it has mad torque but i want more. That f23 block should definitely have more power than mine trust it will feel like an h dues mine does.

You should just throw the head on it the way it is, i saw a g23vtec stock block and h22 head on a civic ripping through gears with a f23 trans. That thing was pretty quick from what i saw and like i said mine is pretty quick too but yours should be quicker and torquier

lenz973

Thx for the Info Honda, I can't wait to see what kind of numbers and how the car runs once everything is done. I will have to bump up my compression to run the sk2 cams. Do you guys think the stock k20 pistons are good or use the wiseco 11.7 pistons? I will keep the f23 trans on it.

lenz973

Ok, lol. It s a manual but I guess get rid of the accord tranny? There's a local place near me that sells h22 LSD trannys for 700. I'll take the criticism and advice Pirate. Come to nj to build my motor and I'll throw $$$ your way. I guess I'll take my time and not rush this. I wanted to start next week. I'll just keep racking up parts.

hondasdohc

Do the k20 pistons it will bump up compression and it will be better but if you can get wisecos get them. Im going to put f20b pistons in my f22a1 block they say you can't but i put the pistons side by side and there is barely a noticeable difference besides the dome. Thats what im sticking to and im going to achieve a masterpiece at hand.

lenz973

Well, I m not even sure where I'd get the final drive from. I just would like to get it dropped in asap. As far as what I want? 230 hp plus dohc in the accord. Something that I can use as my daily and open up whenever I like. As I said I also have another accord that I m going to boost as a G23. I will know the verdict today on if the mechanic I deal with will do the job or not. If not, pm me your # pirate and I'll get you a flight out here so we can get this thing done lol.

pmptwst17

Well the whole reason i asked this is because im new to the h/f world and i wanted something more then the 8.8:1 compression, without using the oem K series pistons, due to the wrist pin offset. And i didnt want to spend the money for forged at the moment because it is a dd, and i dont want crazy amounts of power, but i want something a little more peppy. Its going to be mated to a S8g d-series tranny. I dont know of anyone with the machining skills around here to enlarge the quench pads of the h22 head. i was hoping for about 10:1 with H22 head, F23a1 bottom, the only way i can think of is custom k20 pistons at 10:1? Or might you have another solution Pirate. I have read many of your posts, and replies in regards to your build. I guess you cant have it every way you want lol.

Bense

hondasdohc

I just want to say what makes the g23/g22 vtec head swap any different than a b20 with a vtec head. If you look at it they both have head to block bore differences like h22 head on f22 block 85mm block 87mm head bore and the same with the gsr head 82mm head 84mm b20 block. I don't get why it's not good for the g series but it's ok for b series it makes no sense. Some ppl just don't know what they are doing so when putting parts that are not for the motor like lets say an f23 head gasket on a f22 block with the h22 head it's the reason why the motor won't last as long as you'd like it to. Just my concept and thought ppl should know.

pmptwst17

Sorry not trying to be an ***, but what are you talking about? Just your concept? Do you mean just your 2 cents?

I don't recall saying being worried about bore difference's between the 2 motors, the only problem with the bore, its that for a Daily Driver, im very hesitant to bore my F23 to 87mm past Honda's recommended factory bore specs.

I am not very familiar hands on with the H-series but am becoming so as i do my swap.

Thank you PirateMcFred and Bense, I have read many of both of your posts, i am in the middle doing my h2d swap right now, and have read and reread both of your builds and write ups, and Appreciate SO VERY MUCH what you guys have contributed.

Hondasdohc, If you had read anything about this particular swap, Pirate has even said that he would not use OEM H22 pistons again, and this was my original plan, because i didnt want to use K20 pistons.

I have decided to go another route though. I will be ordering an H22 OBD1 from Hmotors after Christmas, removing the balancing shafts installing my ARP head-studs, new head gasket kit, Logic motorsports Tri-y header, and Hondata. I will keep the rest to possibly build another motor in the future to play around with more. I miss driving my car, and its becoming a hassle to not have a car to drive lol. Plus i miss my eg hatch and want to move onto that project as well.

Thanks for that as well Pirate, was gonna use stock cams, and i would def clay the motor for clearances before assuming everything works the way i want it too. Life doesn't always happen that way.

hondasdohc

Well yes i did mean my 2 cents but what are you talking about never said anything about your build or what you are trying to build. I was not referring to your build i was saying this to get a point across. I understand F/H series motors from top to bottom so of course you don't wanna use oem h22 pistons weak ringlands. I know your trying to build a dd and you seek reliability so if that's what you want to do, do it. Never tried to question your build but maybe you misunderstood. I have built my g22 vtec runs perfectly fine but do want higher compression. But any way good luck with your build love H/F mad torque.

pmptwst17

Thanks i appreciate that. Yea i may have misunderstood, but its not the ring-lands, actually from my readings and research of companies(kainzenspeed for example), that is just a common misconception. Hell there are plenty of people boosting the bejesus out of H22's pass after pass. Its not that at all.

hondasdohc

True I've seen some boosted and everything was stock on them just depends on who tunes it and how they tune it. A good tune is key to work wonders on any B/D/F/H/K lol