I am new to the Civic crew and I have an odd ball Civic in need of a heart transplant. First off, I bought this 97 Civic DX that someone had transplanted an Accord F23A1 and P2A8 in. After I put about 200 miles on it, it dropped a valve and destroyed that cylinder. So, now I am in need of a new engine and probably going to change the trans too. Here's what I'm wondering about, I have been looking into swapping in either a JDM F20B or H23 and T2T4 LSD trans but what I'm wondering about is where can I get replacement parts for the JDM engine if I ever need to replace any parts like the clutch or all the sensors and what all I may have to replace for it to mount in my car since it has already been swapped once before? I think my mounts will work but not positive but not sure of my axles will work if I change the trans. I've done some searching on swapping these engines in an 02 accord since that's where the setup came from but I can't find any like my setup/swap.. I would really appreciate any help you could give.. Thanks in advance..

 

I stand to be corrected but I believe most of the parts for an F20B or H23 JDM are compatible with the H22A used in the US.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/hybrid-engine-swaps-18/f20b-faq-2018500/
http://www.accordinglydone.com/forum...In-progress%29
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-prelude-4/jdm-h23a-vtec-blue-top-mystery-motor-true-facts-questions-2341343/

 

Yeah, I read where that the timing belt from an h22a would work, its just tight because it is 155 tooth belt where the h23/f20b is 156 tooth, just wasn't sure if the other parts would work, like the timing kit, water pump and clutch kit/flywheel. I plan on replacing the essential parts before installing it but I want to make sure that I get the parts before I buy the engine. Thanks.

 

H23's are easy. Lots of H22 parts swap over. I've done a few H23 bluetop swaps in preludes. Great engine overall.

H22 clutches definitely work for H23's...and I'm fairly sure for F20's also. I always used H22 T belts, water pumps, tensioners, and seals. The belt is a pain to get right. But just takes a little experience. The gears keep wanting to turn because everything is so tight. It's really not too bad, though....especially when doing it outside of the chassis.

On a prelude, reusing the stock H22 valve cover is a better fit with the stock wiring harness piece that goes over the cover.

Mix and match the motor mount brackets. I think you can just use all the ones from your F motor.

 

Thanks for the info. Can you or anyone, tell me how that I can tell if my axles will work or if need to replace them also?The more I look, I'm kinda leaning towards the JDM H22A, But would anyone recommend changing to OBD1 over 2? i have been searching around about it but still don't know which way to go..

 

Just another opinion:

My 2001 Prelude SE had a blown H22Z1 (I know it should have come with an H22A4, don't ask me why mine came with that) but I swapped it with a blue top H23-VTEC and couldn't have been happier with it. Can't be beat for the price. Picked mine up from tiger japanese in Scarborough.

 

OBD1 ftw. Tuneable ECUs.

Only downfall is that you would lose the immobilizer from the OBD2 ecu. But since you have a Civic there is no immobilizer anyways.

 

Ok, I have been wondering about that. So, if I get the Motor with the OBD2 ECU, do you think I will have to have to key for the immobilizer since the engine came in the JDM Accord/Prelude? I have found the H22 in OBD1 and 2, just didn't know which one would be better.

 

The advantage of the H22A is that it's more rev friendly...so you won't blow it up with the stock H22 rev limit.

The H23 requires you to watch out and not let the engine hit the stock 8200RPM H22 rev limiter. I would recommend not going past about 7500RPM. Not sure what ECU you have in there now. I'm guessing you're already OBD1. If you can, change the VTEC engagement point so you don't fall out of VTEC when shifting at 7500RPM.

You can rev out H22's to 8200RPM and keep them in VTEC on shifts...but I think this may be part of the reason they all blow up so quickly. But...there are several reasons that VTEC H series engines seem to blow up so quickly.

The H22 also has oil squirters (but you can add these on the H23).

The H23 has more torque and more horsepower than the blacktop H22A. It's also usually cheaper than a H22A. Bluetops also have a more broad powerband than any H22A.

 

Didn't know that about the oil squirters.

Just thought of one more minor advantage to the blue top H23 VTEC: they only ever came mated to automatic transmissions (unless there is a car I am unaware of) so these have typically not been abused before you pick it up from your local importer.

 

All f22/23 and h series trans are compatible. Except the f20c and f22c from s2k. If its in a civic u need DA Integra axles which u probably have installed already. So you dont need to change axles. Only diff from f23 is the driver side mount that bolts onto actual motor itself. I did a writeup once of my swap on bisimoto forums. U can relook there. Lost my member id and pass. And if u want more answers cb7 tuners are knowledgeable guys about f. Research g series. Itll pop up with hybrid builds but do ignore the inline 5 g25a1/a4 those are fron rare and unique vigors and early tl models

 

Thanks for all the info. My car currently has the OBD2 ECU in it part # 37820-P72-A03. Do i need to change this, do you think it will work with the H23/22,or should I just get the one that is matched to the engine that I get? i know could have probably done a little research on this but I figured while I was here I may as well ask..

 

You have a GSR ECU. I would get some sort of a tuneable or chipped ECU. You're going to lean out that humongous 2.3L using a 1.8L map.

Ehhhhh....doesn't mean that all the maintenance was taken care of. I have seen some BEAATTTT UPPPPP H23 swaps. H22/23's are usually beat to crap by the time you get them.....unless you pay top dollar at HMO or buy a Type S swap. For some reason the Type S swaps seem to be in much better shape.

A majority of H23's that I've handled are beat up a bit. Just non-maintained. You can tell some dude with his accord wagon didn't give a crap about oil changes. They were probably fleet vehicles or something.

I've probably seen more decent condition H22's than H23's.

 

Yeah,I figured that out after I posted that about the ECU..lol I think I'm going to spend the extra and get the EuroR/Type S. Only thing is, how to tell if its a true red top and not a plain H22A with a red valve cover. I don't want to pay the $$$$ for a red top and get the black top in disguise..lol

 

They're not going to do that to you. But the Type S/euro R has a different head casting. You can look for the head casting.

The Euro R has a PDE head. The head stamp should say PDE on it...and not P13.

Avoid the Type S motor. It's an ATTS motor and trans. The ATTS unit obviously won't work since you're bolting it into a civic and not a 5G prelude SH. I'm not even sure if it will fit. Even if it does fit, you'll have a heavier swap with an open diff and more powertrain loss.

If you want to forgo the ATTS, you can just buy a type S block...but you'll need an intermediate shaft and adapter and regular trans to make it all work.


The Euro R is the one you want.

The Euro R does NOT come with an ATTS trans...but it does make 220hp. Euro R gearing is a little taller than the M2B4 gearing (blacktop H22 LSD trans), but it would be a good gearset for your chassis. It does have a mechanical LSD, so that's a good thing.

 

Oh, ok.. Thats what I will look for then, Euro R. I knew there was an ATTS but didn't know what exactly it did or about the extra weight, figured it wouldn't work by the look of it.. Thanks for all your help, now just to find a good package deal motor/trans, ECU and wiring..lol

 

Best to use right ecu for car.

 

If I was you id just get a p28 and chip it for an h basemap.

 

So, I can get chips already loaded with the basemaps and would this be better than getting the ECM for the engine that I get?

 

I guess if you can find a basemap tune for a Euro R, you'll do fine. To use a JDM ECU, you'll need to do some wiring unless its already wired to run the way the JDM ECU runs it. Either way...keep it so that you can run it on a OBD2A P72 if you need to go to emissions testing.

The cost offset is insane between the ER and the H23 bluetop. IIRC, bluetop motors are like $800. M2B4 transmissions are $1100ish. You have everything else. ER swaps are, what, $3500+?

I guess the ER is more rev friendly and makes 10-20 more HP off the bat.....maybe has more potential? Idk.

Depending on how your car is wired to run the motor, you may need a H22 USDM oil pump.

 

I stand corrected. Looks like H22 Euro r swaps are $2400ish at jdmenginescorp.com

 

yeah I found a swap H22 Euro R, but but now trying to figure out all the differences in the JDM vs USDM ECU's and I'm wondering if I should spend the extra for the R or just get the black top since I'd rather try to run the USDM ECU and harness. I figure that the US H22 ECU has a different tune in it than the R, so the R will probably not run to its full potential without a tune.

 

Does anyone know what all I would have to swap to run the USDM OBD2 ECU from a JDM OBD2? I've been looking around but can't seem to find what I'm looking for, all I seem to find is OBD1 to OBD2 swaps.. Thanks in advance..

 

You cannot run a JDM harness without extensive changes....nor do you want to.

The JDM OBD2 ECUs don't use a crank sensor for fuel and spark. Then again neither does your integra ECU. So you may not need to do anything.

You need to go OBD1 anyway. You need a chipped civic/integra ECU or a Hondata ECU. Either way. OBD1.

Just look at a H22 swap into an OBD2 civic. I'm almost positive you can just leave everything AS IS (like you have it now with the F bomb).

Plug everything into the new motor.

Get an OBD1 jumper and ECU.

Turn the key.

 

There's a H22 how-to sticky in this forum. There's surely good info there.