Drew M

Ok so I had swapped a B18C1 into an EG 2 years ago and had no problems with it whatsoever. Last week I bought another EG to swap my drivetrain into so that I could drive the car on the street instead of looking at it sitting in the yard.

I started up the old car, drove it around the block just for fun then pulled it in. We did the swap into the new car and now when I start it, it idles extremely rough - almost like the firing order is wrong - but it isn't. It WILL NOT rev up. All of the necessary wiring was already in the harness with the exception of the secondaries and the knock sensor, which I added. The secondaries are NOT moving but moving them manually does nothing for me. It also does not appear that the tach is working.

The car is using an MSD 6AL and MSD coil (were both on the other car when it drove into the shop).

Anybody seen this before - or know of a commonly fucked up thing that might cause this. The ONLY thing I can think of is the knock sensor wiring is screwed up somewhere and it is causing the ECM to massively retard the timing.

The old car was a 1992 CX and the new one is a 1993 Si. The motor is out of a 1994 GSR.

Thoughts?

Drew M

Hello? Anyone?

LudeyKrus

Well, even if the KS wiring is screwed, it would only not get a signal. This should not be enough to pull enough timing to cause it to idle rough.

Is it throwin any codes? Have you tried reading/checking the spark plugs?

Is the bad idle like a cylinder is misfiring? Does it not rev b/c a lack of power, or is it hitting a very low limiter?

Drew M

It is idling like either the timing is way off or a cylinder is not firing. When you try to rev it, the motor just dies and shuts off. Nothing was touched internal to the motor and I have tried bypassing the MSD which didn't change a damn thing.

The ONLY other thing I can think of is that initially when I installed the distributor I put it in 180 off. It went in ok and so I tightened it down. It didn't run obviously but what it did do is slightly bend one of the tabs on the drive. It doesn't look like enough to cause a problem but I guess that could be it.

Is there anything else involved with the swap that could be causing this?

3.3.3

hmmm, i had the same problem and it turned out that my TPS sensor had the wrong plug running to it. i mixed it up with a sensor near it on the intake mani which had the same plug design.

the knock sensor should only make you lose a little bit of power and run super rich. not enough for it to die out.

LudeyKrus

Check your TPS sensor again; that sounds like when mine was busted when I swapped out motors a while back.

Also, check the MAP sensor.

Drew M

I did unplug the TPS but only while we pulled the motor. I don't remember unplugging anything else.

Where is the MAP sensor on that motor?

3.3.3

my bad its on top of the TB

WAFFLES

PM sent. Let me know what your thoughts are.

LudeyKrus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WAFFLES &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PM sent. Let me know what your thoughts are.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uh oh, he's bein secretive!

3.3.3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Uh oh, he's bein secretive! </TD></TR></TABLE>

hehe....us hybrid peasants are unworthy. lol.

Turbogixxer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I did unplug the TPS but only while we pulled the motor. I don't remember unplugging anything else.

Where is the MAP sensor on that motor? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The MAP and TPS have the same plug. But you problem sounds like a timing problem. Recheck all your wires for the coil and inside of the dizzy. Recheck all your grounds too.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it throwin any codes? Have you tried reading/checking the spark plugs?</TD></TR></TABLE>

WAFFLES

sorry.

Basically, a few months back I installed my distributor on 180 off just like Drew. I fired it up and the timing blet jumped a few teeth. I pulled the distributor off and reinstalled correctly, and had the same symptoms as Drew is describing. Only mine wouldn't start all the time.

3.3.3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbogixxer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The MAP and TPS have the same plug. But you problem sounds like a timing problem. Recheck all your wires for the coil and inside of the dizzy. Recheck all your grounds too.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats what my problem was...it would cut off at high RPM's and burn half a tank of gas in a day.

cool now.

Turbogixxer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 3 3 3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats what my problem was...it would cut off at high RPM's and burn half a tank of gas in a day. </TD></TR></TABLE>

When this happens *most*of the time, it throws a CEL.

3.3.3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbogixxer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

When this happens *most*of the time, it throws a CEL. </TD></TR></TABLE>

word. not i just have that pesky code 23 that i need to address.

Drew M

All grounds have been checked several times.

The wires in the dist are good as well.

Turbogixxer

hmmmm,


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OIt also does not appear that the tach is working.</TD></TR></TABLE>

When you checked to see if your MSD was bad (aka hooked up the stock coil up) did the tach work then?
You check to see if anything was messed up in the dizzy after you installed it wrong?

Drew M

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbogixxer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When you checked to see if your MSD was bad (aka hooked up the stock coil up) did the tach work then?
You check to see if anything was messed up in the dizzy after you installed it wrong?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

There is no stock coil in the distributor. I don't even have the stock coil anymore. I checked the MSD by connecting the ignitor outs directly to my MSD coil. Nothing changed.

Everything looks fine in the distributor. Only thing I see is one of the ears is bent slightly on the drive. I don't even know if that happened as a result of this.

Turbogixxer

For Reference:

Blk/yel: + side of coil
wht/blu: - side of coil


The only thing that I think it may be is wiring and/or something you are overlooking that you either: hooked up wrong or broke.

I wish I had a clear answer.

Nick M

Did you look at the map sensor?

My WRX had similiar symptons like you are describing and it turned out to be the map sensor.

Different car I know, but a bad MAP is a bad MAP

Turbogixxer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Nick M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Different car I know, but a bad MAP is a bad MAP</TD></TR></TABLE>

Honda map sensors just do not go out. Not saying it is not he problem, but it is not a high risk item. Only if you hooked it up wrong (aka switched TPS with MAP plug).

Drew M

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbogixxer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Blk/yel: + side of coil
wht/blu: - side of coil</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I know.

It feels like timing/ignition to me. I am gonna check and see if I pulled a "Waffles". After that I am gonna have to dig in and start tracing wires.

LudeyKrus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbogixxer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Honda map sensors just do not go out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Mine did, but my car was sitting outside, not being used, for a year.

Drew M

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Mine did, but my car was sitting outside, not being used, for a year.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This one sat for almost 2 years without being run.

It started right up and drove into the garage on Thursday.