VTECVillain

I'm in somewhat of a dilemma with a swap I'm working on. The car is a 91 CRX DX automatic and I'm installing a 96 B18B1 LS motor with 92 LS cable 5 speed transmission. I purchased the older 91 LS ecu, distributor, and injectors and plan to keep everything non-OBD.
I know that the car needs converted to MPFI which I bought an 89 CRX Si engine harness hoping it would work. I thought this would help but now I see that the plugs are different on the driver and passenger side's where they plug into the cabin harness plugs (the Si has more plugs with less pins than the DX). I was under the impression that they would plug in and all I would need to do was get the wiring worked out from those plugs in to the ecu but it's not working.
What I'm wondering is should I use the DX auto harness and repin a few sensor plugs then just rewire my own MPFI or is it possible to use the Si harness? I'm noticing many differences in the car and engine harnesses that I never knew existed.
I've talked to a few people and they suggest that I use the DX harness. I tried plugging it on the motor but only a few things plug in and I'm not even sure if they are correct since it's so different. I can see there's no "simple" way to do this swap but I know a lot of people have them, so I'm looking for the right way to go about it. I've got the Helms manuals and I've been studying the wiring so I feel confident that I can do this. I am kind of lost right now so any direction would be greatly appreciated.

Trey

This may help,
http://hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/4gdxtozc.html

VTECVillain

Yeah I've went over that and pretty much understand the DPFI to MPFI. The thing I don't understand is how (or if) people are using their stock DX harness for all the other sensors and things. The DX harness doesn't fit hardly anything on the motor. The distributor plug is square on the engine harness but the 91 LS distributor is round and has 2 more wires. The alternator plug is completely different on the 96 motor and so are a few others. I did a good bit of research (or at least I thought I did) and now it's like I'm back to square one and have no clue what is going on.
I hope that someone with this same setup or people that have done the swap can help me out. B16 and ZC info. doesn't really help much since those motors were non-OBD and the stock harnesses plug into the components and sensors on those motors.

-TJ

I strongly suggest that you beg, borrow, or buy a Helm manual for both the 90-91 Integra (for the distributor/other sensors pinouts) and the CRX. All your questions can be answered with those books.
The matter of the distributor connector shape is totally insignificant as long as it's a non-OBD B18A dist. Just extract the pins and use the old DX distributor plug (that's where the wiring diagrams in the Helms come in handy).

Also, isn't the passengers side frame engine mount physically located in a different spot on the automatic (vs. the 5 speed frame)?

If you find Storminmatt, he's had a B18A/B CRX and now a B20Z CRX.

VTECVillain

I have the Helms manual for the 91 CRX and I got the LS wiring schematics from someone. I wouldn't begin to start a project without those. Wiring aside, I'm beginning to worry about this issue with the tranny mount location on the frame. You are the second person that told me about this so I guess it is probably different in an auto. I've never heard about it and thought that you could just change over to manual with a mount kit but maybe not. Can you confirm this? I know people out there have 88-91 auto to manual swaps so if this is the case how are they doing it? My guess is if it's different then the mount would need to be repositioned and rewelded.

-TJ

Better to find out ahead of time about the frame difference in an auto. rather than mid-swap like we did on my friend's DA. We swapped a B18C/Y1 into it. With some quick thinking, and the motor hanging in the engine bay, we solved the problem pretty effortlessly.
We put the rubber tranny mount in the frame, and removed the stamped steel mount that bolts to the top of the tranny. With the drivers side mount, the rear mount, and the front mount attached, we fabricated a new steel mount that goes in between the tranny and the rubber mount. Home depot and the mig welder to the rescue! It was ugly, but strong as hell.
Since you have a CRX, you won't have the luxury of the front mount to aid alignment. You may want to compare numbers on the frame repair charts in the CRX Helm though. The dimensions of where the mounts fall is laid out in detail. Just comare the numbers to see how far and which way the tranny frame mount is off. I don't think anyone has developed an EF-auto-to-B-series kit, but I could be wrong.
Here is another minor detail I'm sure most poeple skip - You also need to look into where the shift linkage mounts in the "tunnel". I'm sure you'll find (like we did) that the mounting is not there. Further, there is a rolled lip flange where the 5-speed car's inner rubber shift boot seals up to - that wasn't there on the DA. It turns out that on a 5 speed, the tunnel wall is doubled and the shift linkage mounting and rolled lip for the boot that keeps the road spray out is on a seperate stamping, then spot welded up into place. A trip over to my local (well stocked) Honda/Acura yard and we talked one of the mechanics there into cutting out this portion for us from another integra. Since what we got was a spot welded together double wall shifter section, we separated the "upside" from the underside (which is the side you want) then siliconed and bolted it back into the auto DA. Viola, ready for a shift linkage.

I could go on and on at this point, my coffee cup is only half empty...the wiring is another mess to sort out... Let me just sum up the auto-to-manual swap by saying be sure to plan on spending plenty of time ironing out the unexpected. We spent a solid 5 days straight swapping that DA from B18A/auto to B18C/y1 and we had 90% of all the parts from the start and all the tools you could want, except a lift - my garage ceiling isn't tall enough .

VTECVillain

The Helms I bought is the electronic troubleshooting book so it only show wiring schematics. I have access to a mig welder so it's possible to torch off the old mount bracket, reposition it and then weld it in place though. I had NO idea all this was necessary to do this swap. I've been lead to believe from the beginning that it was pretty easy and now I know I was really misinformed. I guess I'll decide before I hack up things because I'm to the point where I can still turn back and put the old motor/tranny back in. I hate to do that since I shelled out a lot of $ for the motor, tranny, mounts, and everything else. But if it looks like all this custom fabrication work is involved then there's no way it's gonna happen.

VTECVillain

I just talked to a some guys at HASport and some people on the board that have done auto to manual swaps in the EF chassis. They all said that the manual and automatic both have the transmission mount bracket at the same location on the frame rail - this applies only to 88-91 Civic/CRX models. They said on 92+ Civic's, the cars have different locations for the auto and manual.

Trey

If you use your DX or an Si harness, you'll need pre-OBD distributor, injectors, and a few other sensors to get it all to work with that harness and ecu.

VTECVillain

I already have a 91 LS distributor, ecu, and 89 CRX Si injectors. I'm using the stock DX engine harness and rewiring it to MPFI. I also have a spare 89 CRX Si motor harness, an 88 CRX HF motor harness and the 96 LS harness that came with the engine. So I have more than enough wire, pins, etc. to work with that's for sure. I'm just glad that things are looking better because I was getting worried over this whole tranny bracket location on the frame rail thing.



[Modified by VTECVillain, 1:07 AM 4/24/2002]

-TJ

Glad to hear the motor mounting isn't an issue. I suppose any advice I give now is going to be ignored!

DX to MPFI isn't that hard at all. My 88DX has been converted - I used some injector old wiring harness and resistor box from my stash of '86 parts - non-obd is non-obd. Trust me, the best way to do your wiring is on your own with the Helms. Never mind all those DX to ZC pages. Everyone has their own way of doing it because there isn't just one way. Some people use existing DX wires in the chassis for the MPFI and others (me) just run their own so they know it's gonna work.
I used what I could of the DX harness on my D16A6 - I've also used D16A6 harness' on B16A's, B18A harness' on B18C's. THere is generally enough wire there to do the job, but you've gotta unwind the electrical tape and re-route things to make them fit - then re-wrap the harness. Fun stuff.
Don't forget to connect the 2 halves of the starter signal wire at the auto shifter...it was also my experience on the DA auto-to-manual swap that getting the wiring permanently in Park did not matter at all - but we removed the auto tranny ECU all together....maybe the EF isn't as similar to the DA as I thought though. Just trying to prepare you for everything I ran into I guess....

enough rambling.

EF_LSVtec

I just finished my swap 2 days ago...after 3 long weeks of agony. 97 LS motor on an 88 Civic DX (GSR head on the way). Hasport did my wiring harness for $300 or so bucks...everything plugged right in except I had to use a 91 distributor and alternator...Hasport info tech is very helpfull more so than the usual Hybrid website.