87shytwhip

f'n carzy.. you should track it right now and tell me what your 60' is .. w/ a vtec head you should be about 1.6.. 1.7

BlueIntegraBoy

iTrader: (5)

Awesome ****.

RallySol

Thanks for the remarks, you guys are awsome

So its been a month or so and I'm still trying to get rid of understeer issues. I'm thinking most of my understeer is comming from worn out tires since I'm down to the wear bars. Once I get new tires I'm gong to take it autocrossing to find out if the 23mm rear bar is part of the solution or part of the problem. Go a few runs with the 23mm bar then swap it for the 15mm bar and try it.

I've run across enough traffic on my way to and from work to discover the car can keep pace with the local STIs and EVOs in the corners, but they still kill on any open straight between. I can't speak to driver skill, but most the locals with sports cars around here know what they're doing.

I've also discovered that from a stop it takes the rear clutch pack about a second to lock up when I drop the clutch at 3k. I get front wheel spin for all of 2-3 feet before the rear catches up. I'd guess under normal conditions the power split looks something like 90/10 or 85/15, but once the clutch pack is at full lock its an even 50/50.

Theres no noticeable vibration from the drive train, however there is a fair ammount of gear whine since I hard-mounted the diff. That is to be remedied later.

I need to revisit the last third of the exhaust. Under hard cornering the right axle just kisses the exhaust pipe. Theres enough room under there such that if I move the bends around I can gain another half inch above the axle.

Still haven't found a local-ish 4 wheel dyno shop. Still haven't taken time off from work to go hit the quarter mile. Still don't know my corner weights. Monday I'm going to order a scale system and shortly thereafter build a mobil leveling platform to take to local car meets and events and get them to pay for themselves. I don't know if I want to dyno it now or after the GSR head swap.

Hopefully I can have a GSR motor in the car and referee'd before the end of the year. I'm not holding my breath though, this car has blown the many deadlines I've set for it in the past.

JeffBro

Can't imagin roll'in up to a del sol and he drops the clutch and burns em for a sec then just takes off lol. Like damn what happened?! That thing would sooo sick with a turbo gsr or something with big power!

spanish-ek'hatch

nice

Stinkycheezmonky

I'd look into other AWD swaybar/spring rate setups, though my in my limited memory I recall they were fairly similar to FWD setups (big rear bar, rear biased springs). The spring rates with those shocks could be contributing big time, depending on what they are. Some of the lesser-known JDM setups have wonky rates. Your tire pressures will also be a factor, I'd try increasing the rear pressure by 2-3psi and see how that feels. And yes, corded front tires will understeer a bunch.

mattcivic

did u ever experiment with installing the rear CRV hubs into your del sol trailing arms? if memory serves me well the AWD integra that braile made did that. dont get me wrong im not bitching i love homemade stuff just im just wondering.

mattcivic

and did u use the crv front axles as well and if so did they work on yout del sol hubs?

RallySol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffBro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can't imagin roll'in up to a del sol and he drops the clutch and burns em for a sec then just takes off lol. Like damn what happened?! That thing would sooo sick with a turbo gsr or something with big power!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Two words: hell yes.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd look into other AWD swaybar/spring rate setups, though my in my limited memory I recall they were fairly similar to FWD setups (big rear bar, rear biased springs). The spring rates with those shocks could be contributing big time, depending on what they are. Some of the lesser-known JDM setups have wonky rates. Your tire pressures will also be a factor, I'd try increasing the rear pressure by 2-3psi and see how that feels. And yes, corded front tires will understeer a bunch.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I hadn't even thought of looking into spring rates, thanks for pointing that out. I'll have to start doing my homework again and look at how the DSM, STi and Evo are set up and whats popular.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did u ever experiment with installing the rear CRV hubs into your del sol trailing arms? if memory serves me well the AWD integra that braile made did that. dont get me wrong im not bitching i love homemade stuff just im just wondering.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I haven't looked at CRV rear hubs purely due to cost. I walked out of a pick 'n pull yard with the complete driveline out of an 87-89ish wagon for $500-$600. That was transmission, half shaft, two piece drive shaft w/ viscous coupling, rear diff, both rear axles and both rear trailing arms. All my CRV parts came from a salvage/recycling shop. The CRV rear diff alone was $850.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and did u use the crv front axles as well and if so did they work on yout del sol hubs? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm using stock del Sol VTEC axles with a CRV halfshaft. I had an LS halfshaft for a few days, but it was too short and wouldn't seal properly.

mattcivic

hhmm just for ***** and giggles i did some reasearch i found a company that had the tranny, t-case, rear diff, and rear axles my local junk yard has an automatic CRV that still has the driveline in it (which im sure i could make work with the 5-speed parts) and i bet i can find a set of rear swing arms on the honda civic wagon site. i am in the process of selling my integra but i did kept the motor tranny and basicly anything performance. i may just pick up all the crv drivetrain parts and just throw it and all my parts lef over from my teg into the corner of my garage till the day comes i pick up a beater hatch or something to hack up and throw the AWD **** in.

i saw in another thread that u and another guy were asking about putting an LSD from another FWD b-series tranny into the CRV tranny well i have a spare LSD that i will try to intall into the CRV tranny IF I BUY the tranny of course.

88ED8

Finnaly someone with spare parts to experiment with keep us updated

skunked

cool project

mattcivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89ED8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Finnaly someone with spare parts to experiment with keep us updated </TD></TR></TABLE>

plans changed..... i sold my teggy and bought myself an 88rtawd wagon. i can still get that CRV tranny and the rear axles all for $650 plus shipping if anyone would like them PM me and i will give u the email to the guy selling them but hurry up it seems like every time i talk to him he sells another piece of the drivetrain off.

RallySol

EUREKA! I finally discovered why my sol pushes so much through hard corneres. It took the first good rain of the year on nearly expended tires to figgure it out and put two and two together. As I said before, the diff takes a moment to lock up, but when I tested that the first time I was pointed uphill on a pretty good incline. It locks up pretty damn fast in that situation, but on level ground it takes 2-3 seconds to lock up. So by the time the rear diff would lock up, I've already corrected for understeer and exited the corner.

For those of you not in California's San Francisco bay area, today was the first good solid rain of the year. Roads are slicker 'n dog *****. Unsure about how the car would handle in these conditions I found some safe spots where I could find out how bad it would understeer and test the brakes to see what kind of distance I'd need in an emergency, without putting anyone else or my paint in danger.

Long story short, the car would push push push push until the diff locked and would then become rather neutral and corner a hell of a lot better. Did that a few times to make sure I wasn't hitting dry spots or losing speed to the point the front would grip again. The next time I tested it I had the ebrake on, by just a click, to create enough resistance to lock the diff. Huzzah! success! Considerably less understeer. The only way I can think of to explain the difference is AWD handling in the wet is akin to FWD handling in the dry.

I took it to an autocross event on sunday and it did the same thing. I went way hot into a corner and it just plowed, but the corner was long and wide enough that I kept my foot in it and the diff eventually locked up and the car jumped back into the middle of the course.

Now I need to figgure out how to achieve this result without using the ebrake. I might take the diff out and disect it while the transmission is out at a shop being refreshed. Unequal front/rear pressure causes the clutch to lock. I think I might be able to restrict the flow to the rear pump, though doing that would kinda expletive things up when reverse is used.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">plans changed..... i sold my teggy and bought myself an 88rtawd wagon. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Congratulations! Luckily you won't have this same understeer issues that I've been dealing with since the wagons had either a viscous coupling or a torsion bar as one of the driveline segments.

mattcivic

ya the wagovan gets around nicely i took it out onto some gravel today and its quite a feeling when u get sideways in a honda (when u dont have to use the e-break) definetly need a stiffer clutch and the turbo kit is almost ready to be intalled should make for a great daily driver/winter car.

88ED8

.

WrongWD

iTrader: (1)

car is lookin great eric, can't wait to see it again

-jon (from VIVI)

Martin_p

fuukin cool car !!!

RallySol

Been messing with the ebrake in the corners and the more brake I apply the less understeer I experience with increasing corner speed. This makes me wonder what the car would be capable of if the power split was 50/50. I don't think I'm getting any more than 80/20 by dragging the ebrake, if even that.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89ED8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you could weld up the realtime unit (the part with all the disks) and then just take out all the unnessesary pump meckanical paets</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've considered that, but a big part of using the clutch'd setup was to rig it so that it would unlock when the ebrake is pulled. I believe the STi and the EVO have a driveline disconnect linked to the ebrake from the factory.

I think what I'm going to do is keep the clutch pack and remove the pump in favor of some sort of thrust bearing/spring/hydraulic thing that would apply pressure to the clutch pack, locking it completely, unless the ebrake is pulled in which case it would unlock completely. I have a few ideas on how to accomplish this, but all require having a new housing made... I think. I need to chew on this for a while.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WrongWD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> car is lookin great eric, can't wait to see it again

-jon (from VIVI)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks! Hope you can make it out to next year, I should have it painted by then *fingerscrossed*

RallySol

oh yeah, scale system showed up two weeks ago.



Full interior, 12 gallons of gas and no driver: 2560 lbs
60/40-ish front/rear
52/48-ish left/right




Modified by RallySol at 6:43 AM 11/9/2006

88ED8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RallySol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think what I'm going to do is keep the clutch pack and remove the pump in favor of some sort of thrust bearing/spring/hydraulic thing that would apply pressure to the clutch pack, locking it completely, unless the ebrake is pulled in which case it would unlock completely.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Interesting idea! Have you also considered welding the gears in the rear differential?? And what about the front diff? have you tried fitting a b series lsd?

88ED8

b series lsd won't fit, I tried it today

RallySol

Won't fit like how? Guy I spoke with a few years ago said he did it but had to grind on it to get it to fit. I've never seen the car or the diff for myself so I don't know if hes full of it or what.

88ED8

theretically you could make it fit but you would have to do more than "grind".......
On a bseries lsd the bolts that hold the diff to the ring gear first go through the gear then thread into the diff were as on a awd crv 5spd the bolts go first through the diff then through the gear for the transfer case and then finnaly thread into the FD ring gear. also the surface were the gear meets the diff has a different offset. However the bolt pattern is the same and the inside diameter from both gears from the crv diff will clear/fit onto a bseries lsd... so "theretically" you could drill through the bseries lsd to remove the threads and then bolt on the 2 crv differential gears onto the bseries lsd and that would work but the offset is still different and I don't see how the gears could line up in tne tranny but at least the bearing <U>look</U> like they will fit on the lsd.

Dstrcto

Hey, new to forum and is my first post, I joined just cuz I was thinkin about how to do this on my 'teg and I saw the awesome job you've done so far. Seems you're stuck about the awd kickin in a little late for you (or not at all), but I'm sure you could jury-rig somethin. I found this info, it kinda explains about how the system really works, maybe it'll give you an idea on how to do it:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.c...9e9/9
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.c...e9/10

Crazy pump system... Good job though, keep at it