WhiteRiceR 4

Yo, Im currently riding around with a b16a1 in my 89 4 door civic. Its got some other stuff like type r cams, and cam gears, headers, and no cat. Not too slow (14.5 with seats out) but still kinda weak. Whats really bugging me is the absolute lack of torque. riding it out till 8k is fun but i always find my self having to catch up with people i race cause they take of better. So i got plans for a Ls-vtec conversion using my tranny and head and just swaping blocks. (duh) This shop will do it for 2200 with new pistons, blue-printed and balanced. All parts provided. (good deal). Im just curious how much that will increase my acceleration. Whats the 1/4 mile time expected from an ls-vtec 4 door? with...say....215 tires. oh, and the power steering and AC are out. hehe. Thanx

Mentat Ghola

ttt and BEYOND!!!

GapxGuy

You have a sedan, of course you'll need a 1.8L, a 1.6L isn't gonna cut it. And about your LSvtec swap for $2200 is not a good deal IMO. I recommend you find a bare LS block and use your stock B16 pistons. You have all of the parts already, you just need the accessories and labor. This LSvtec upgrade can be done under a grand. That sedan needs a 1.8+, goodluck.

NirSpec1

Hey Man

Yes I did an Ls-vtec setup in a 93 lx 4 door. And like "GapxGuy" said use your stock b16 pistons that you have right now. The set up we used was ls bottom end, with pr3 (fist gen b16 pistons) stock b16a head with type r cams, ITR intake manifold, cam gears, FR,FPR, DC 4-1 and Aem intake. We had IB tune the car with hondata and came up with 176 WHP, which isn't a huge number but not bad at all for a budget build up. The car is pretty quick concidering that it is a four door, we don't have any times yet. As far as $2200, thats not a great price but not quite as bad as i've seen.

I mean:
ls bottom end: $400-700
machine work: $150-200
balance: $150-300
new rings(honda) $100
head gasket $65
ls vtec parts $100 at the most
head studs (suggested) $130
assembly ???
swap $500

if you have any other questions let me know.

peace

sleeper4dr

ok thats complete BS. we're talking about ED/EFs. even the 4dr ED/EFs weigh in around 2200-2300 depending on if you have a DX/LX and whether or not you're using full trim or not. we're not talking about 2600lb Si's.

but yes i have an EF with Ls/vtec. basically its an LS block, 81.5mm RW 11.5:1 pistons, with Eagle rods, fully balanced with a Z10 girdle (pinned), with a complete 00 ITR head. coupled with my 93 GSR trans my engine DOES NOT BOG. i havent made it to a dyno or racetrack yet but it is definitely quick sometimes i think it would be faster to take off from idle instead of dropping from ~3k just to keep the spinning down.

anyway i wish i could give you some idea of what kind of improvements you would expect but i think you will definitely be happy.

if you stick with stock LS rods then definitely upgrade the rod bolts to ARP (or have the shop do it).

GapxGuy

Are the EF sedans really that weight? Even if it is, why settle for a 1.6L? I know hatches and CRXs with B16 swaps that aren't satisfied. And he even said his B16 feels torqueless. Why take out your 1.6L motor and replace it with another 1.6? Just a recommendation.

WhiteRiceR 4

Hey guys, thanx for the feedback. I still think 2200 is a fair deal, this guy said i can have my choice of brand new b16, CTR or ITR pistons, plus i get all new seals, belts and pumps, ITR water pump and ITR oil pump. Its a shop in whittier called Upgrade Engineering, they do b16a1's for 1800 installed and h22 in an EF for 4200. Whats the redline of an Ls-vtec? i heard its pretty low, like 6800 rpm's. I should probably get a v-tec controler to get vtec earlier. Well i havent got any Et's but im gonna hope for 13.8, 13.9 somewhere around there.

SIXTYdashONE

hahaha, good luck man, i live in NJ, and ive heard MAD **** about that place.. IMO, u can do it cheaper

Mentat Ghola

Define "MAD ****". hehe.

sleeper4dr

6800rpm?? who the hell told you that? with a proper build you can take your engine to 9500rpm if you want to. i know of a guy on CSI that has a b20/vtec setup with JUN 3s and 9500 is his redline (as per dyno tuning). just dont think you can do this WITHOUT building your engine.

i myself am just using an ITR head (but have a well built bottom-end) so i dont rev any higher than 8400-8500 just to be on the safeside with the valvetrain, and because most likely my R cams arent making power that high anyway.
if you want to rev higher than that, then i suggest you have the necessary valvetrain AND the rotating assy balancing. and think about getting a GSR or Z10 girdle (MUST be pinned).

if you plan on shifting at 6800rpm then be prepared to have your *** handed to you on a regular basis otherwise you should just stick with you B16.

sleeper4dr

yes but dont forget to add abour 75-85lbs to that number because of the b-series swap. if i remember right, my 89 dx sedan is supposed to weigh 2147lbs stock (according to http://autos.msn.com/vip/specificati...d=1298&src=vip. i dont think i could even guess the weight now with all of the crap i've swapped/replaced on it.
but you'll never know absolutely until you get you car weighed of course.


[Modified by sleeper4dr, 5:54 AM 12/26/2002]

Mentat Ghola

Whats usually the redline of a balanced, blue-printed ls-vtec?

sleeper4dr

(assuming LS rods) if you have ARP rod bolts, then it really depends on the cams and valvetrain. if you have a balanced, blue-printed ls-vtec with just a stock B16 head on there, then you dont need to rev any higher than 8200rpm because your cams are not doing anything past ~7800rpm anyway.


[Modified by sleeper4dr, 5:26 PM 12/26/2002]

Mentat Ghola

sleeper4dr

yes. i was just mentioning the B16 head (as in stock with B16 cams). i forgot to look at your original post again. but with ITR cams and valvetrain, then 8400 will do just fine. if you have stock B16 valve springs, then i honestly wouldnt rev past 8100-8200rpm.

Triple T

I have gsr cams in my b16 head and I dont take it past 8000 most of the time. I have arp rod bolts in my ls bottom so its fine to take it that high. Hopefully Ill be getting itr cams soon.

95IntegraGSRAZ

NO Catalytic Converter!

Do us and the envirornment a favor and go get one.....

meept

Been thinking about a LS/VTEC for my '89 LX myself...currently it has a B16/LS trans in it. Did you have to do anything with the hood to accomodate the taller LS block? My B16 is very close fitting, using HASport mounts.

sleeper4dr

i have seen some people post about their ls/vtec or GSR engines fitting fine under the hood, but my hood's frame rails were actually sitting on the valve cover (and scratching the paint off). so i dremelled out the rails over the engine. looks like butt but i could care. just think of the weight savings!!

i have the 1st gen HASport mounts myself

sleeper4dr

personally i think cats are over-rated. they are a must on old worn out engines and i guess in highly populated areas, but i dont see a need for them otherwise.

i say this because my younger bro had a 77 TA with a rebuilt 455 in it and WITHOUT cats he ran cleaner than average on the sniffer. and hell Florida dumped their emissions restrictions completely just a year or two ago.

icelarry27

DO NOT GO WITH UPGRADE ENGINEERING!!! my brother got some stuff from there and whenever we called...oh yeah its on the way, or, we're almost done, we're gonna send it soon, it took easily, 6 months to get his stuff...and thats cuz he had a lawyer call and use big words and fraud an ****...i think...but dont go with them...terrible service...an we didnt even get all of the parts...

blackZC (W)

yeah we need to put cats on these pesky volcanos spewing deadly gases into the air..CAPTAIN PLANET LIES!!!


[Modified by blackZC, 7:34 PM 12/31/2002]