NA or Supercharger?
07-04-2004, 01:41 PM
#26
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my perspective is carried the same way as the amuse people and what they have done w/ there s2k's. hands down i believe this is the route to go.
-mugen intake
-amuse r1000 exh
-amuse header
-aem ems
-bigger injectors
-mugen cooling mods
-hondata intake gasket
-and an alaniz ported head
all this w/ extensive tuning through church automotive will not net minor gains imo.
also no one has done this route yet....
but im on my way...muahahahaha
-mugen intake
-amuse r1000 exh
-amuse header
-aem ems
-bigger injectors
-mugen cooling mods
-hondata intake gasket
-and an alaniz ported head
all this w/ extensive tuning through church automotive will not net minor gains imo.
also no one has done this route yet....
but im on my way...muahahahaha
07-08-2004, 05:25 AM
#27
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Re: (CynCrvrAP#1)
i believe in NA also....what power outputs will i see with that set up?
-mugen intake
-amuse r1000 exh
-amuse header
-aem ems
-bigger injectors
-mugen cooling mods
-hondata intake gasket
-and an alaniz ported head
thanks for all your help guys. im a s2k n00b!
-mugen intake
-amuse r1000 exh
-amuse header
-aem ems
-bigger injectors
-mugen cooling mods
-hondata intake gasket
-and an alaniz ported head
thanks for all your help guys. im a s2k n00b!
07-08-2004, 09:39 AM
#28
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Re: (JDM_Sol)
Its so difficult to pick. I really would want to go NA, Ported/polished head, ITB's, equal length 4-1 manifold, cams, ECU, gutted cat/replacement pipe, lightened flywheel and uprated clutch. Having just typed that, you'd buy them for an FI setup (bar the ITB's). 240whp possibly, for perhaps $5000 outlay. You'd feel good about it though. All motor is something to be proud of!
07-08-2004, 02:38 PM
#29
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Re: NA or Supercharger? (natedoggs2k)
oddly i talked with an older car guy last nite, and this topic came up. he said for reliblity and constant power sc is the way to go. if you do add it get it tuned you can still do bolt-ons later. 
07-08-2004, 03:42 PM
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Re: (Hypersonik)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hypersonik »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its so difficult to pick. I really would want to go NA, Ported/polished head, ITB's, equal length 4-1 manifold, cams, ECU, gutted cat/replacement pipe, lightened flywheel and uprated clutch. Having just typed that, you'd buy them for an FI setup (bar the ITB's). 240whp possibly, for perhaps $5000 outlay. You'd feel good about it though. All motor is something to be proud of!</TD></TR></TABLE>
minus the ITBs and porting the head, yes, it's very do-able (240whp on a dynapack). To push 300 bhp would require higher compression, increased bore, and head work.
minus the ITBs and porting the head, yes, it's very do-able (240whp on a dynapack). To push 300 bhp would require higher compression, increased bore, and head work.
07-08-2004, 04:20 PM
#31
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Re: (CynCrvrAP#1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CynCrvrAP#1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my perspective is carried the same way as the amuse people and what they have done w/ there s2k's. hands down i believe this is the route to go.
-mugen intake
-amuse r1000 exh
-amuse header
-aem ems
-bigger injectors
-mugen cooling mods
-hondata intake gasket
-and an alaniz ported head
all this w/ extensive tuning through church automotive will not net minor gains imo.
also no one has done this route yet....
but im on my way...muahahahaha
</TD></TR></TABLE>
why run higher flow injectors?
-mugen intake
-amuse r1000 exh
-amuse header
-aem ems
-bigger injectors
-mugen cooling mods
-hondata intake gasket
-and an alaniz ported head
all this w/ extensive tuning through church automotive will not net minor gains imo.
also no one has done this route yet....
but im on my way...muahahahaha
</TD></TR></TABLE>
why run higher flow injectors?
07-08-2004, 04:31 PM
#32
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Re: (CynCrvrAP#1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CynCrvrAP#1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i say n/a...and thats the rout im going w/ my s2...imo u can't go wrong and word has it that you can take it to 10200 w/ the aem ems...
and thats my next move w/ the mugen intake and ems.
of cousre you gotts replace the rod bolts for extra strength--</TD></TR></TABLE>
even if you replace the rod bolts, I'd like to see you take it to 10.2 krpm and hear the engine deteriorate.
and thats my next move w/ the mugen intake and ems.
of cousre you gotts replace the rod bolts for extra strength--</TD></TR></TABLE>
even if you replace the rod bolts, I'd like to see you take it to 10.2 krpm and hear the engine deteriorate.
07-08-2004, 04:37 PM
#33
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Re: (vapor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
minus the ITBs and porting the head, yes, it's very do-able (240whp on a dynapack). To push 300 bhp would require higher compression, increased bore, and head work. </TD></TR></TABLE>
300whp!!! That'd be a serious NA setup. 375@crank!!! Almost 200bhp/litre. Bike engine territory now. CBR600RR has 199bhp/litre. So it'd have to have a 11-12krpm limit and I suppose VTEC killer cams to reduce rotating masses. Be a pig to drive everyday!
minus the ITBs and porting the head, yes, it's very do-able (240whp on a dynapack). To push 300 bhp would require higher compression, increased bore, and head work. </TD></TR></TABLE>
300whp!!! That'd be a serious NA setup. 375@crank!!! Almost 200bhp/litre. Bike engine territory now. CBR600RR has 199bhp/litre. So it'd have to have a 11-12krpm limit and I suppose VTEC killer cams to reduce rotating masses. Be a pig to drive everyday!
07-08-2004, 06:56 PM
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Re: (Hypersonik)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hypersonik »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
300whp!!! That'd be a serious NA setup. 375@crank!!! Almost 200bhp/litre. Bike engine territory now. CBR600RR has 199bhp/litre. So it'd have to have a 11-12krpm limit and I suppose VTEC killer cams to reduce rotating masses. Be a pig to drive everyday!</TD></TR></TABLE>
no no, I meant 300 crank hp, written as 300bhp. That's not uncommon, as BTCC 2.0L 4 cylinder engines were producing much more than 300bhp. There's no need to rev to 11-12krpms.
300whp!!! That'd be a serious NA setup. 375@crank!!! Almost 200bhp/litre. Bike engine territory now. CBR600RR has 199bhp/litre. So it'd have to have a 11-12krpm limit and I suppose VTEC killer cams to reduce rotating masses. Be a pig to drive everyday!</TD></TR></TABLE>
no no, I meant 300 crank hp, written as 300bhp. That's not uncommon, as BTCC 2.0L 4 cylinder engines were producing much more than 300bhp. There's no need to rev to 11-12krpms.
07-08-2004, 07:41 PM
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Re: (vapor)
Wouldn't you have to worry about your pistons slapping the valves if you pushed the limit up to 10200 or beyond? Seems like you would eventually bend a valve...
07-08-2004, 07:46 PM
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Re: (TXS2K)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TXS2K »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wouldn't you have to worry about your pistons slapping the valves if you pushed the limit up to 10200 or beyond? Seems like you would eventually bend a valve...</TD></TR></TABLE>
on a stock motor, yes, but if you built a motor with an upgraded valvetrain, ported the head and even got hot enough cams in there, the operating power range of the engine would be from 6-10krpms, under that would not be practical for daily driving.
on a stock motor, yes, but if you built a motor with an upgraded valvetrain, ported the head and even got hot enough cams in there, the operating power range of the engine would be from 6-10krpms, under that would not be practical for daily driving.
07-09-2004, 10:31 AM
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Re: (vapor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
no no, I meant 300 crank hp, written as 300bhp. That's not uncommon, as BTCC 2.0L 4 cylinder engines were producing much more than 300bhp. There's no need to rev to 11-12krpms. </TD></TR></TABLE>
BTCC cars are limited to 285bhp. Have no idea what they produce without the restrictor.
no no, I meant 300 crank hp, written as 300bhp. That's not uncommon, as BTCC 2.0L 4 cylinder engines were producing much more than 300bhp. There's no need to rev to 11-12krpms. </TD></TR></TABLE>
BTCC cars are limited to 285bhp. Have no idea what they produce without the restrictor.
07-09-2004, 11:45 AM
#38
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N/A and supercharger....
Can you do both? Get a super charger and go N/A? Also if you just get lets say the comptech SC can you do more to the engine to make it faster? like adding aftermarket parts, boring it out etc. If the N/A has more reliability, what are the most gains you can get from going this route IE can you do more to the engine, replacing parts etc to make a beast basically.
If you can do more to the engine what can you do specifically?
Which way can get the most gains in acceleration and power and yet remain reliable and an every day driver.
I am thinking more in terms of getting a new part for my car every couple months or so, so what can be done to just keep making it better and better and better...
Ultimate S2000 Noob
If you can do more to the engine what can you do specifically?
Which way can get the most gains in acceleration and power and yet remain reliable and an every day driver.
I am thinking more in terms of getting a new part for my car every couple months or so, so what can be done to just keep making it better and better and better...
Ultimate S2000 Noob
07-09-2004, 01:30 PM
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Re: N/A and supercharger.... (Blair-Racing)
You can bore and stroke the engine. Put in stronger components (not that they aren't already) and build then head. Then you could put a 13 to 18 psi pully on the supercharger and that would pretty much be a beast. But then you have to upgrade the rearend extensively...it just depends on how much money one has to spend
07-12-2004, 09:49 PM
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Re: N/A and supercharger.... (Blair-Racing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blair-Racing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can you do both? Get a super charger and go N/A? Also if you just get lets say the comptech SC can you do more to the engine to make it faster? like adding aftermarket parts, boring it out etc. If the N/A has more reliability, what are the most gains you can get from going this route IE can you do more to the engine, replacing parts etc to make a beast basically.
If you can do more to the engine what can you do specifically?
Which way can get the most gains in acceleration and power and yet remain reliable and an every day driver.
I am thinking more in terms of getting a new part for my car every couple months or so, so what can be done to just keep making it better and better and better...
Ultimate S2000 Noob</TD></TR></TABLE>
read man, just read. most of your questions are answered in this thread
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hypersonik »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTCC cars are limited to 285bhp. Have no idea what they produce without the restrictor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
when I was following the series a few years ago, such was not the case. I'm not sure what rules are in place now but I'll tell you now they make more than 285 crank hp.
If you can do more to the engine what can you do specifically?
Which way can get the most gains in acceleration and power and yet remain reliable and an every day driver.
I am thinking more in terms of getting a new part for my car every couple months or so, so what can be done to just keep making it better and better and better...
Ultimate S2000 Noob</TD></TR></TABLE>
read man, just read. most of your questions are answered in this thread
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hypersonik »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTCC cars are limited to 285bhp. Have no idea what they produce without the restrictor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
when I was following the series a few years ago, such was not the case. I'm not sure what rules are in place now but I'll tell you now they make more than 285 crank hp.
07-13-2004, 05:56 PM
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Re: (vapor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
even if you replace the rod bolts, I'd like to see you take it to 10.2 krpm and hear the engine deteriorate. </TD></TR></TABLE>
well i belive UL is running his s2k to this # of102rpms. (tuning is the key) its not jus some make believe story! check out s2ki he says it himself, unless theres in imposter ...lol
as for bigger injectors its not necessarly needed when compared to lets say an STI. personally i would have no problem doing so.
even if you replace the rod bolts, I'd like to see you take it to 10.2 krpm and hear the engine deteriorate. </TD></TR></TABLE>
well i belive UL is running his s2k to this # of102rpms. (tuning is the key) its not jus some make believe story! check out s2ki he says it himself, unless theres in imposter ...lol
as for bigger injectors its not necessarly needed when compared to lets say an STI. personally i would have no problem doing so.
07-13-2004, 06:33 PM
#42
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hey vapors...hit me up w/ the condition and pics if possible for your rims-do they need the spacers you've postd? etc (whats the offsets)
mugeneg7@yahoo.com
thanks
mugeneg7@yahoo.com
thanks
07-20-2004, 08:36 AM
#43
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Re: (CynCrvrAP#1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CynCrvrAP#1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
well i belive UL is running his s2k to this # of102rpms. (tuning is the key) its not jus some make believe story! check out s2ki he says it himself, unless theres in imposter ...lol
as for bigger injectors its not necessarly needed when compared to lets say an STI. personally i would have no problem doing so.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you can do a dyno pull or two up that high to see where the power is dropping off or going up but to rev that high consistently will wear away an engine at a very accelerated rate. It wont be like a factory F20C engine that can rev to 9k rpms consistently. For a naturally aspirated setup, larger injectors are necessary when the engine is heavily modified and built.
well i belive UL is running his s2k to this # of102rpms. (tuning is the key) its not jus some make believe story! check out s2ki he says it himself, unless theres in imposter ...lol
as for bigger injectors its not necessarly needed when compared to lets say an STI. personally i would have no problem doing so.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you can do a dyno pull or two up that high to see where the power is dropping off or going up but to rev that high consistently will wear away an engine at a very accelerated rate. It wont be like a factory F20C engine that can rev to 9k rpms consistently. For a naturally aspirated setup, larger injectors are necessary when the engine is heavily modified and built.
07-21-2004, 04:13 AM
#44
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Let me start by saying I've driven MANY S2000s with many different setups and I'm currently running a Vortech SC in my '01.
Now that that's out of the way I'd like to put the claims to rest that supercharged cars don't make any power down low. Thay stumble a bit at throttle tip-in (before the SC is making boost it is just parasitic drag) but after that it will pull harder than an NA car throughout the rev range. It might feel like an NA car due to the stock-like linear power delivery, but it is without a doubt pulling harder. To prove it, just find an NA S and an SC S and race them, but limit the max RPM to, say, 4500. See who wins.
With that said, I'd stay NA if I could do it over again. My car has plenty of power as it sits (297whp) but I've had so many problems with it (not tuning issues, but hardware issues) that I just don't think it's worth it. I don't want to go to a track day and not be able to give it my best because I'm worried I'm gonna throw another $130 worth of belts or blow another ring and pinion. I don't want to go back to the dragon and be forced to short-shift to keep from hitting the guy in front of me. I want to be screaming to 9,000 right with him!
Granted, the whistle and the BOV are pretty addictive, but so is the NA scream of the F20.
I don't see why you couldn't get ~215whp from a good intake (Mugen, J's, etc), header, exhaust, ECU and a Hondata gasket. That's plenty for just about anyone who isn't trying to hit the drag strip. And it's plug-and-play, worry free hp
Hope this helps a little.
-Dave
Now that that's out of the way I'd like to put the claims to rest that supercharged cars don't make any power down low. Thay stumble a bit at throttle tip-in (before the SC is making boost it is just parasitic drag) but after that it will pull harder than an NA car throughout the rev range. It might feel like an NA car due to the stock-like linear power delivery, but it is without a doubt pulling harder. To prove it, just find an NA S and an SC S and race them, but limit the max RPM to, say, 4500. See who wins.
With that said, I'd stay NA if I could do it over again. My car has plenty of power as it sits (297whp) but I've had so many problems with it (not tuning issues, but hardware issues) that I just don't think it's worth it. I don't want to go to a track day and not be able to give it my best because I'm worried I'm gonna throw another $130 worth of belts or blow another ring and pinion. I don't want to go back to the dragon and be forced to short-shift to keep from hitting the guy in front of me. I want to be screaming to 9,000 right with him!
Granted, the whistle and the BOV are pretty addictive, but so is the NA scream of the F20.
I don't see why you couldn't get ~215whp from a good intake (Mugen, J's, etc), header, exhaust, ECU and a Hondata gasket. That's plenty for just about anyone who isn't trying to hit the drag strip. And it's plug-and-play, worry free hp
Hope this helps a little.
-Dave
07-21-2004, 09:25 AM
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Re: (CynCrvrAP#1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CynCrvrAP#1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
well i belive UL is running his s2k to this # of102rpms. (tuning is the key) its not jus some make believe story! check out s2ki he says it himself, unless theres in imposter ...lol
as for bigger injectors its not necessarly needed when compared to lets say an STI. personally i would have no problem doing so.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No amount of tuning can overcome the laws of physics...
well i belive UL is running his s2k to this # of102rpms. (tuning is the key) its not jus some make believe story! check out s2ki he says it himself, unless theres in imposter ...lol
as for bigger injectors its not necessarly needed when compared to lets say an STI. personally i would have no problem doing so.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No amount of tuning can overcome the laws of physics...
07-21-2004, 09:37 AM
#46
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Comptech SC w/ aftercooler all the way to the bank and back.
Makes the car sound very nice and adds a crap load of reliable power.
"I drive a supercharged S2000."
Whoa.
Makes the car sound very nice and adds a crap load of reliable power.
"I drive a supercharged S2000."
Whoa.
07-21-2004, 06:46 PM
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Re: NA or Supercharger? (natedoggs2k)
the spoon intake aint all that bad!!! it actually works... and does look good if you're planning to keep it clean and simple. the only problem is... i dont recommend spending $200 on the air filter, its better to go with something much more cheaper like comptech. if you plan to drive it day by day. i only had the comptech air filter for like 3 months and the thing is so... dirty, its like you have to change it constantly! particles of sand, dirt, pollens, even bugs spend throughout the stock air box!
im planning to sell my spoon intake and front strut bar very soon... only used for like 3 months. cost over $500, will not be a dissappointing price to sell.
im planning to sell my spoon intake and front strut bar very soon... only used for like 3 months. cost over $500, will not be a dissappointing price to sell.
07-22-2004, 12:06 AM
#48
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When I was running the Spoon intake I had a Sprint filter. I think it was like $35 and it never needs oil. Just wash and reinstall. Very convenient.
07-22-2004, 08:35 AM
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I have the Sprint filter as well. You don't even need to wash it. Just vacuum it.
A friend of mine did an oil test to see if the Sprint filter was actually filtering out stuff since it's so damn convenient unlike all the others that requiring cleaning and oiling.
His results came back normal.
A friend of mine did an oil test to see if the Sprint filter was actually filtering out stuff since it's so damn convenient unlike all the others that requiring cleaning and oiling.
His results came back normal.
07-25-2004, 09:06 PM
#50
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Re: (dave22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dave22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Thay stumble a bit at throttle tip-in (before the SC is making boost it is just parasitic drag) but after that it will pull harder than an NA car throughout the rev range.
-Dave</TD></TR></TABLE>
that stumbling is due to engine management and ridding the stock ecu to see boost through a voltage clamp or other electronic device altering the map sensor signal. It's also due to the fuel management as the stock Vortech and Comptech kits have FMU's that increase fuel pressure directly proportional to lbs of boost being run. Not the ideal way for fuel management but it works. There wont be any hesitation with an aftermarket tuned ecu from idle to partial to full throttle.
-Dave</TD></TR></TABLE>
that stumbling is due to engine management and ridding the stock ecu to see boost through a voltage clamp or other electronic device altering the map sensor signal. It's also due to the fuel management as the stock Vortech and Comptech kits have FMU's that increase fuel pressure directly proportional to lbs of boost being run. Not the ideal way for fuel management but it works. There wont be any hesitation with an aftermarket tuned ecu from idle to partial to full throttle.