Hey guys, was curious if anyone has run Tein Flex on their AND another competitively priced coilover, and which one would you prefer.

I know their are other cheaper, and more expensive coilovers for the s2000, however, i am a fan of Tein, and i do not want to put completely entry level coilovers.

I am also interested in Buddy Club Race's, however for the price I'd rather have Teins. Any reason to get them over the Teins?

The car is a BONE STOCK AP1. Not a track dedicated car, however it will be doing Auto-x and track days in the summer. Car is daily driven.

I can't afford to spend more than 1300 bucks realistically, and i've seen the flex online for around this price.

 

just get these:
http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/e...7-p-34747.html

unless you need shocks, then get some konis and call it a day. the springs are more than capable for doing track day/autoX duty and they are pretty close to the stock ride so they won't ride like complete crap

 

I had the flex's on my 00. They were ok but for the retail price I think they should be more than just ok. I got mines brand new for super cheap that's y I decided to run them. They were comfortable depending where ur dampening is set at. They drop the car pretty low the front goes lower than rear I maxed out the rears. The only complaint I have against them is that they were too soft when pushed hard. I autoxed with them and rcomps and I felt more body roll than I would have liked. Maybe my preloaded should have been set higher. In conclusion they r ok but overpriced for what they deliver. I would go with the buddy clubs race spec. I think these r going to be my next set.

 

no thanks, i do not want springs.

Thanks for the input

 

ah, I think I know what you're after... hahaha

 

which is?

 

I have a set of Top Secret/Aragosta Coilovers for sale on s2ki. They are listed at 2,100 shipped on my thread, they are worth over 4k.. and I need em gone so if u are interested maybe we can work a deal and ill lower my price a bit! PM me if u want more details man.

 

im on s2ki, but man i couldnt even begin to swing that much cash sorry.

 

The KW Variant 2's i have make me happy, granted i have a DB8. I have not yet tracked the car yet though.

 

i run the flex in myy stock AP1 and i auto cross all the time with then and falken azenis street tires and i think they are fine. I bought the car with them so i really dont have anyting else to compare them with

 

have you looked into the bilsteins? i'm running the pss9's and they are by far the most comfortable coils i've have ridden in. they are quite capable of track days too! I got mine for about 13xx

 

Flexes are OK. I had them on my S13. I have KW V3s on my S2000 now. I've seen used sets going on S2KI for as low as $1300. Snag those if you find them.

Someone up there suggested springs. Don't listen to them. Springs suck for track days and auto cross. I'd rather just use the stock suspension or just use a combination of stock springs for roll stiffness. Or use the CR springs/shocks.

The stock parts won't lower the car, but most lowering springs are too damn soft. They're slightly stiffer than stock...but when coupled with the lower ride height, your body roll will actually INCREASE around agressive turns.

My friend's AP2 with Tein S-techs looked like a whale around the track. He said he was getting pwned by stock suspension S2000s at Gingerman.

I know that some springs are better suited to tracking than others. But they're all kind of half measures.

I honestly wouldn't go with either of your choices. Save up some of your cash. Then buy something nice. I love my KW V3s. I got them at the unrealistic price of $1600 brand new. You can probably pick up a set around $1900 or so new right now, I would figure.

Flexes are like $1500? Save up man. Don't rush into something to save $400.

 

has any one here ran Ksports in their S2's? i was going to pick up a set but not sure if they are worth it

 

Thanks man, i was hoping you'd come in here and bust out some knowledge. I have never liked springs, unless they are a set up like race koni's and custom swifts.

Friend has them on his car, but he just likes to roll around slammed so idk how they do on the track. Their other coilovers aren't terribly competitive.

I've been looking into those, thanks for the heads up.

I appreciate the input.

 

I guess my eibachs royally suck for autocross and track days, although it's netted me a handful of podiums.
What's even more odd is, you bash "springs", then mention CR springs/shocks as a fall back remedy.

yes, a full coilover setup is better, but at a price... and the better ones cost more than the OPs budget.


and please provide some data to prove your statement that lowering a car with slightly stiffer springs will increase body roll. Links and/or expert opinions please.

Here's my data:

Over 1G of sustained lateral G's on street tires (Hankook RS3s) and Eibach Pro-Kits on stock shocks, stock sway bars, euro alignment...

I imagine if "just springs" were WORSE than stock, the car wouldn't be able to achieve over 1g of grip, even with the stickier tires. But, what do I know... I just have trophies and data to support my point. What do you have?

 

K lets not all get butt hurt. but with all due respect this thread is about coilovers

 

Agreed, but within the OPs budget of $1300, it's worth mentioning springs/shocks combos that would outperform coilovers within that price range (ie. eibach/koni combo). Afterall, the goal of this forum is to help educate and provide quantifiable feedback... vs. baseless claims such as "stiffer springs increase body roll"

 

i'm with Driven on this one, and it's exactly what i did. If you don't have the budget for 'good' coilovers, it's better to invest in some decent springs (and shocks maybe) to give you that better stance until you have the budget for the coils. Just make sure you get good progressive springs.
Lower centre of gravity and stiffer springs should you give you a decent enough drive for autox etc.
That way, you'll build your experience on springs and know exactly what coilovers to get once you have the experience and budget.

 

It's a bit of a read, but I can justify what I said.


I think you're misconstruing what I said. I didn't say stiffer springs increase body roll. However, roll centers are an important facet in automotive engineering. Lowering a car can create upward angles on LCAs. If G-force is acting directly perpendicular to the face of your wheel (it is), then adding an upward angle on the LCA will make it easier to push the spring upward. The sideways force from Lateral acceleration combined with an upward LCA angle will push the spring/shock combo upwards.

This is demonstrated here in my cave drawings (Imagine you're looking at the LCA directly from the front or rear of the car):


OBVIOUSLY, the angles are exxagerated and made up. But this is a good demonstration of what actually happens to your LCA. Here's the issue with the upward angle:



So basically to put numbers to it...if you had a force of 1200lbs pushing at the wheel (resulting from lateral acceleration) and the LCA was flat...none of that 1200lb force would translate upwards into the spring/shock.

Now if you had the same 1200lbs with a LCA angle of 10 degrees (theta X = 10), and you go through the equation in the diagram, you get an "extra" upward force of 211.6lbs. This means that additional to the body roll that is already occuring you get 211.6lbs of force compressing the spring/shock. The larger the angle the larger the upward force. The smaller the angle, the smaller the upward force.

When theta X is 5 degrees, the extra upward force is 104.98lbs
When theta X is 20 degrees, the extra upward force is 436.76lbs.

The further you get away from horizontal, the more the lateral force will translate into upward force. The LCA acts as a lever to push up the spring.

This is easily demonstrated by putting a 2X4 up against a wall. Put it completely horizontal to the wall. Push as hard as you can to push the 2X4 into the wall. If the wall is sturdy, the 2x4 won't move.

Put an upward angle on the 2x4. Push on it now. It will pivot into the wall much easier.

So...back to the car example...you get more body roll unless the spring can compensate. The way the spring compensates is to be stiff enough to push back that extra upward force. The problem with MOST lowering springs is that they're soft in order to be used with stock shocks. They're either too low to be that soft or too soft to be that low.


Here's a likely scenario: Lateral force builds quickly at first causing the car to roll and causing the LCA to go further and further up. Then the lever arm action created by the LCA being pointed upwards makes the spring artificially "softer". The car body rolls more and more till it stops creating lateral force.

I also said that there are SOME lowering springs more suited for the track. Combining your Eibach sportlines that only have a 1'' drop with a more agressive alignment and better tires would net you better lap times.

You're also a little off by saying that a stock S2000 couldn't hold a 1G corner. With a turn of that radius and sticky tires...it definately could. A stock AP1 does around .92-95G from tests I've seen. The stock CR does around .95-.97G from what I've seen. The AP2 did worse because of it's dismally bad factory tires...IIRC, it was like .89G or so. The AP1/CR have better tires from the factory and are pretty damn close to 1G in absolutely stock form. Add stickier tires and BAM...1G wouldn't really be an issue.

You're also basing your 1G measure from an iPhone app. There's a little room for error there, I would imagine.

As a general sweeping statement, springs/shocks probably wouldn't outperform even cheap coilovers in a track environment. There are, ofcourse, exceptions to this rule...but I'm speaking in general.

Stiff springs and agressive dampers always do well in situations where a car is traveling on a smooth surface and needs to make grip with sticky tires.

However, the sacrifice in ride quality and the inability to soak up track curbing and bumps...or the inability to do quick transitions well makes cheap coilovers un desirable.

Setup is also more important than equipment labels. Someone with D2s could go out and CRUSH some fool on Motons if the setup of the car was better. However, the ride home with the D2s would be appaling...and they'd be more of a handful on a course with lots of bumps.

Refinement is what you usually pay for with an expensive coilover. The ability to be more than 1 dimensional. The ability to not only control the car's roll...but to provide acceptable (relative term) ride quality and damping on bumps. Not all tracks are smooth.

Autobahn Country Club in Joilet, for example, is SUPER bumpy. Without proper damping, you can easily skip across the track into the grass on some of the faster turns...like T1 on the full course.

When I referred to using CR springs or a combination of stock springs...how is that discrediting me at all? I said something along the lines of "I'd almost rather use the stock suspension to gain better performance than a lot of the lowering springs out there". Are CR springs not a factory part? My argument was that lowering springs are too low and too soft. CR springs are stiffer..or as stiff as a lot of lowering springs...and they maintain stock ride height and the stock roll center curve.


Driven...you triflin.

 

First some numbers to substantiate the data:
Stock S2000 spring rates:
00-01 - 218lbs F / 291lbs R
02-03 - 240lbs F / 230lbs R
04-07 - 256lbs F / 207lbs R
08 - 274lbs F / 225lbs R
CR - 375lbs F / 264lbs R

Eibach Pro kit - 263lbs F / 343lbs R (lowers 1" f/r)


Source:
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php...#entry14070110
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=512199
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=545870


Yes, like it SHOULD.
On cornering, the weight transfers to the outside edge, pushing the LCA into the angle you've exaggerated, and pushing the side of the vehicle upwards... to prevent additional body roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfddsOd3jgE

Notice in this video at 1:10, he takes a right turn, where the LCA's are pointed upwards... yep, to help keep the chassis off the tires and keep the tires in contact with the road surface. Which is what it's suppose to do.



And now you see my whole point. I didn't recommend crap springs.

didn't say a stock S2K couldn't... I said if the springs were WORSE than stock, it might be a difficult task, especially if they were stumbling all over themselves, rolling over the tires to insanely crazy body roll, etc, etc.

The GPS lap timer was within 0.1sec of AMB transponders, and the accelerometer in the iPhone has for more engineering, testing, and reliable data than your pretty MS Paint drawings


As a general sweeping statement, most coilover users will never have their suspension properly tuned to see the benefits of having coilovers.

 

I have ground control coilovers sitting on koni yellow shocks. Rides nice not too rough and handles quite well so far.