dc5tegk20

There has been a huge debate for the past years as to which year/engine S2000 is the best. Some say the high revving F20C 2.0 is the way to go, while others say the torque monster that is the F22 is the only S2000 to buy. Others even say it should have came with a 6 cylinder, but that's another story. I personally prefer the 04+ AP2 chassis and its 2.2 liter, thus is the reason why I purchased my Rio Yellow MY06. My friend John on the other hand had something else in mind. He dreamed of high 9k revs all day which influenced him into purchasing his MY00 Silverstone Metallic.

After a year of friendly bashing around our shop, we finally decided to settle the argument. There is a cystic fibrosis benefit on Oct. 16th at Beaver Springs Dragway a local track in PA that our local forum ( Patuned.com) is sponsoring. We decided to settle it that day. Not just a 1/4 mile race though, we were going to do several different tests such as dyno, weight, and driver. Lets take a look at the cars and the tests.

Both cars are very identical, both have aftermarket exhaust that is less than 3" diameter and both have snorkel style intakes and both are lowered. Both were dynoed on the same chilly September day within an hour of eachother. They were both dynoed at our shop Innovative Motorworks on a DynaPack Evolution 3000 model dyno.

John's 2000 AP1 S2000:







John's AP1 has around 100,000 miles on it and he didn't feel comfortable beating on it until the meddlesome AP1 intake retainers (which are sometimes known to crack) were fixed. So I hounded him for a month or so until he finally decided to do it and he replaced the intake side with K series retainers. He bought it with a couple modifications not a lot is known about the brands of the mods but it has a snorkel intake to the stock airbox that runs down into the front grill,a bored stock throttlebody, an aftermarket clutch and an Apexi World Sport exhaust. The wheels used to be the AP'2 V2 17's that I sold him but the rear tires ended up going so the stock AP1 16's were put back on the rear with 225/50/16 Dunlop direza tires. It is moderately lowered on a set of swift springs

John's dyno was an interesting one. It was putting down mid 190's for whp with a K&N air filter that looked like it had been used since the S500 was around. John called me to bring him my OEM 06 filter from my stock airbox. We slapped it on and to our amazement the car lost 40 whp. We thought there was something up so we did one more pull with the 06 air filter, again lost 40whp. With the K&N back on it jumped back up to the 190whp area. The final numbers were 197 whp and 136 ft lb tq


Brandon's 2006 Ap2 S2000:







The 2006+ S2k's seem to be plagued with the drive-by-wire throttle system. While the throttle feels a lot different driving the AP1, I've gotten used to the DBW. The car has around 50,000 miles on it. I have an HKS Hi-Power exhaust and a Mugen replica snorkel intake that stops behind the front bumper and lowered onthe Eibach prokit The wheels are 17x7.5 F and 17x9 R Enkei RPF-1's with General exclaim UHP tires in 215/45ZR-17 front and 245/40ZR-17 rear. I've ran the car at another track and went 13.97 @ 99mph in about 96* heat. The car dynoed at 212 whp and 147 ft lbs tq.

Here is a dyno graph showing the two cars compared



The other tests:

The track features a scale which we will weight the cars on.

We also plan on switching cars for a pass also.

I will update this with more information when it happens.

For more information on our shop, dyno tuning, engine building check out www.innovative-motorworks.com

For more information about the Race on the 16th check out www.patuned.com for the details and maybe we'll see you there.

Lstarz14

interesting

bigmacnfries

nice work fellas..

riceball777

its pretty common knowlege that the 2.2 makes more power throughout the whole RPM band comparred to the ap1. The huge price differance of the 2 cars does not justtify the 10-20 whp differance. Thats why i bought my ap1 and i'll just go turbo for real power.

T3KNiQe

Im interested in an explenation for the 40whp drop by using your 06 breather box with his 00.

Driven

This.

plus, a BETTER comparo would be STOCK vs. STOCK. not slightly modded vs. slightly modded. The exhaust systems could easily change the power output from 5-10whp.
I like the idea, but from a scientific standpoint, you want to eliminate variables, which you've tried to do, but would be better if you bolted on the stock parts (including clutch), cleared ECU, and dynoed.

then, with one set of wheels swapping between the two vehicles, ran skidpad, lateral Gs, etc.

quarter mile is cute and all, but... drag racing got boring after high school.

it is interesting to see the contest between friends though, and I applaud your efforts!

ITRBOY1433

good comparison, i still love my ap1 though

singlCamRrJAMER

f20c all day!!!!

dc5tegk20

Thanks doode

Well I'm pretty sure his plans are to turbo it soon, he allready has AEM for it waitin to be installed.

Everyone at the shop was really baffled by the air filter thing, the k&n really does look like it spent a couple nights with a hooker. We're really not sure.

We would love to do stock vs stock but we both don't have some of our OEM parts.

It would be alot of fun to do other tests like that, but it was just something simple for now. I know alot of people don't really take S to the drag strip but it was an event and we figured it would be a fun grudge match. We both really do wanna take them to a roadcourse and have some fun. I just figured it would be a good read for you guys

speedooo

interesting...i remember reading about making an intake for an f20c miata in super street and the fab guy lost gobs of power with his own intake, but with an intake similar to the stock piece and the stock airbox he gained back a good amount of the lost power.

murders2k

AP2 for the win!!

ExVtec

I've seen a stock AP1 on the dyno make a pull, then they pulled the stock airbox off w/an open filter and it lost power as well.

-=Zeqs=-

iTrader: (1)

Very cool comparison you guys have done. Over at Raceline, they have noticed that the majority of the AP2's dyno'ed tend to be in the 210+ whp range whereas the AP1's tend to be in the 190 - 197 whp range. The torque is a big deal too, especially since both chassis are nearly identical in weight. All that said though, I still <3 my AP1, while I do wish I had a F22C in there, I'll just have to work on my driving to compensate for the lack of on-demand power.

ap1padawan

A G R E E D .

SlammedDC2teg

Best Motoring did this comparison when the Ap2 came out and it won. But the AP1 was slightly faster on the track because of its gearing and 9k redline which kept the driver from shifting to much

Little_Nolan

iTrader: (3)

cool read. thanks for posting...

pretty sure I saw that yellow S when I was up for the PA ITR meet.

dc5tegk20

Yup! Innovative is my second home lol.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I really do love my 00 AP1, but my friends 06 AP2 is a lot of fun as well. I think I like the "better ness" of the F22 engine/trans/diff/axles. His car makes a better power band and even with my K&N filter, 70mm TP and T1R 70EM exhaust, the cars are pretty even in a race. I pull away from him just a tiny bit on the very very top end. But his is 100% absolutely stock.

What I don't really like about the AP2 is the more numb chassis feel. Not a fan of the slower steering ratio or softer sway bars. The suspensions on both cars are modded and mine is on KW V3s and his is on Tein springs...so there's no fair comparison there.

I like the looks of the AP2 better also. Which is why mine has AP2 headlights, tail lights, bumpers, and a CR lip.

I think I'd stick an AP2 drivetrain in my AP1 for a perfect combo.

dc5tegk20

Unfortunately Johns car is having oil pump issues right now Of all weeks

bigmacnfries

i've said it before and i'll say it again. AP2 with AP1 motor - i.e. the rest of the world outside of the US (until recently) is best. (cos i have one).

forcefedferio

i've never personally driven an AP2, and i didn't know there was not only a difference in the tranny, the diff or the axles. Are they alot stronger or anything? as in would it be worth putting the AP2 stuff in an AP1?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

The trans has shorter gears 1-4 to compensate for the lower redline. Shift at 8k in a AP1 and you'd fall out of VTEC. Shift at 8k in a AP2 and you stay at 6kRPM.

The trans also has carbon coated synchros for smoother shifting...and they don't have the 2nd gear grind syndrome.

The diff is marginally stronger. The axles are redesigned so that you don't get that vibration after lowering the car.

The engine has stronger retainers. The AP1 retainers fail before valve float (around 10,500RPM). The AP2's retainers don't. AP2 retainers are a good upgrayyedd for AP1s that are tracked and/or will possibly be mechanically over revved. F22s also didn't have the oil squirter banjo bolt issue.

So yeah...the driveline is nicer, I'd say.

forcefedferio

Wow definetly, i had no idea of the differences. I just recently started looking at s2k's to buy and i've been reading alot of the comparison threads deciding which to go with, either ap1 or ap2. I originally fell in love with the ap1 aesthetically, so i think im still going to go the ap1 route despite the differences and just upgrade to ap2 stuff as it becomes necessary. thanks for the info though!

B serious

iTrader: (1)

No problems. I would just upgrade the retainers and leave the rest alone. None of it really NEEDS to be uprgreyydded

-=Zeqs=-

iTrader: (1)

"upgreyydded"? O_o

I agree though, I will be switching the stock AP1 retainers over to AP2 retainers before I take my car out to the track next season. Just need some money back from Uncle Sam so I can get a few things done at once, so it's right. Might as well switch the TCT at the same time as well.

AP2v1 rims as well would be nice :D