shivic

150 whp and 140ft/lb

this shop has had my car on their dyno for 6 days in a row. they wired up the motor and installed a 3b hondata with the p28 ecu.

the dyno runs go up to 150 whp at 5k rpms and stay jagged at 150 whp untill 8k rpms.

they say the hondata is tuned, 450 cc injectors, jdm header, big exhaust.

IM so UNhappy.

len

Check compression on the car to see if everything is running correctly. Replace old spark plugs and gap it properly.

If the engine checks out ok and all the mods check out okay, it's time to point a finger at the dyno or the tuner.


[Modified by iloveracing, 9:47 PM 5/14/2002]

civicguy

why 450cc? it is all motor or fi,you may be swiming on fuel

aklucsarits

Your torque is good. Your HP is only 10 hp below avg, so you are not that far off. What kind of compression numbers do you have on the 4 cyls?

What's your Air/Fuel ratio looking like? They should tune it to be 12.5:1 to 13.5:1 all the way across the power band (assuming natural aspiration).

Any reason why you are trying to use a P28 instead of a P72 ECU?
The P28 ECU has no control for the butterflies that keep the secondary intake plenum closed. So unless you install some other sort of RPM trigger to close the butterflys at low RPM, you will have really crappy low end power.

The P28 also has no knock sensor either. It's not a good idea to not have a knock sensor on a motor that has aftermarket injectors and modified fuel maps... A knock sensor would help protect the motor from detonation while they tune it...

The P72 ECU from a GS-R would be perfect for Hondata on an H22A because it supports the knock sensor and secondary intake plenum...

Andrew


[Modified by aklucsarits, 5:46 AM 5/15/2002]

shivic

the tuner said my compression was good but wouldn't give me the numbers. the plugs, wires, filters, and all the tune up things are good. the car reads 40 psi fuel pressure, h22a pump.

i have the dsm 450 injectors but with hondata, they've been leaned out. the tuner says my air fuel is good.

im using the p28 cause that's what i have.

the dyno shoots right up to 150 horse power at 5k rpms, and then stays jagged to redline at 150.

it seems like the tuning or wiring is messed up. the motor purs, valves don't even tap. sounds perfect.

so i should only expect 160 whp from a jdm h22a.


thanks for the help

illusion

is VTEC engaging?

aklucsarits

I believe DSM injectors are peak and hold, while the P28 has injector drivers for saturated injectors... Does the Hondata conversion addess this problem? Does Hondata somehow add support for peak and hold injectors?

Post the dyno plot with the A/F ratios plotted too. We will be able to get a much better idea what the problem is if you can provide that info...

Andrew

bgod

if it's shooting upto 5k with no problems the vtec is obviously not engaging. are you getting any codes.

post the dyno, does it definitely go upto 8000rpm or does it cut off at 7000rpm.

a jdm h22a with the usual bolt-ons and hondata should net closer to 180whp. tuned of course.

shivic

vtec totally engages, you can hear it scream.

the valve train sounds perfect, im makes absolutely no knocking noised whatsoever.

the block sounds perfect.

the air fuel mixture is perfect.

the shop thats' tuning it wired it up and has make 59 dyno passes.
the best they make is 141 whp and 139 ft/lbs.

at 5k rpms, it builds 8 whp after vtec then plumbits to 100 whp at 8k rpms.

does this sound like a faulty distributor or bad wiring job.

it throws no check engine lights.

thanks for the help.
dave

bgod

if you are throwing no codes and your air/fuel is perfect there is something internally wrong with the motor.

if the vtec is screaming, then it should constantly be making power upto about 7300rpm and drop off a bit upto the rev-limiter.

do a compression test, leak down test for blow-by. with 56 passes on a dyno with a stand alone there's no reason why you shouldn't be making close to 180whp or more.

the first base run should have easily been above 160whp easy.

another option is to try to take it to another tuner.

either way, something is wrong. the motor can't be as you described if that makes sense.

not enough oil pressure for vtec since you aren't making the power up in the ranges? what is your oil pressure at wot? possible faulty oil pump?

CBR

Maybe it's the DYNO itself. How is the condition of the shop's dyno? I hear that some dynos lose their accuracy over time, and they regularly need a "tune-up" in order to function correctly.

Try another shop.

shivic

ok, i went by the shop today to get a better scoop.

the dyno sheet is a little different then i said before, it doesn't hold power from vtec to redline, the power sluffs off in a real jagged way to 100 whp at 8k rpms.

the check engine light doesn't come on but does it seem like the wiring could be faulty or an important system is not working.

could the distributor be bad.

bgod

if the wiring was bad or hte distributor was bad, you'd definitely throw codes.

100whp at 8000rpm is about 60-70whp from where you should be. that's not good.

usually when a dyno has jagged lines upto redline it usually means the air/fuel is not optimal. however, since you're fully tuned and air/fuel is perfect as you say there most definitely could be something wrong internally.

people have been known to get bad motors, but something just doesn't sound right in your car.

check the oil pressure.

95GS-R

Yeah that doesn't sound right. My friends prelude got dynoed and it dynoed at 160hp. He had CAI, and a Greddy SP exhaust.

Thing is fast too, he takes down turbo MR2's at the street races.

Don't give up hope dude, get a second opinion elsewhere first.

DirtyLude

Usually jagged lines are electical, not air/fuel related. The fact that it's RPM related does more to confirm this. Either trigger problems or ignition problems.

Greyout

your ignition coil is bad?

aklucsarits

I have to disagree with you there. H22A power peak is at 6800rpm. After 7200rpm, the power drops off hard. 100hp at 8000rpm sounds prefectly normal to me. An H22A with stock cams is just not going to make power at 8000rpm. My car bone stock was at 106 whp at 7700rpm (at fuel cutoff).

Andrew


[Modified by aklucsarits, 2:01 PM 5/16/2002]

bgod

well, i basically had assumed he meant 8000rpm on the stock tach. on my dyno run 8000rpm on the stock tach translated to about 7400-7500rpm on the dyno.
i'm not sure about your car, but my car was very near 150-160whp even at the rev-limiter.

now if he's speaking of 8000rpm on the dyno that's a different story. on the dyno my peak power with a totally stock motor was near 7000-7100rpm. the drop off to redline isn't much at all. and 100whp at 8000rpm isn't right either way.

definitely could be the distributor as in the ignitor, rotor, etc.

however, if you guys read the way he describes his vehicle it wouldn't be that. meaning, when the rotor, ignitor, etc. go bad you can instantly hear the motor not running right. and from what he says, the motor is screaming and running perfectly.

now to reiterate, if this is his problem as in the distributor. the guy tuning is car obviously doesn't know crap about hondas.

bgod

can you post up your dyno by any chance so we can get a better idea of what your power band is.

fastludeh22

iTrader: (1)

pulling the vacume line off will make them stuck open, which will help high rpm but hurt low rpms, maybe they are stuck closed, but that shouldnt make that much of a difference.

where is your vtec crossover point? are u 110% sure its turning on, and not just running good on the low cam?! from my experiance, whatever u are making at 5000 rpms, u should get 10-20 more hp @ 6500-7000, depending on your setup.

shivic

im going to try to get the dyno. when i was saying the power drops off, vtec at 5K (142 whp). at 6500 rpms, its already dropped to 110.

the shop that has it is the only one in utah with a dyno. ill have to drive 600 miles to find another hondata tuner shop.

i can't figure out why the car has compression, new everything, air fuel tuned with a lambda meter, good fuel pressure to redline and this problem won't fix itself.

it the car had ignition problems, wouldn't the car studder or pout.

my car purs to redline, (slowly) but purs.

another thought i had, does the jdm h22a's need electical system modifications to be complitant. 94 motor wired obdI in a 96 EK hatch (obd II)

thatpreludeguy

I tend to believe it may be the trigger for the dyno. I had something similar happen on two of my runs. Super low power and if you were watching on the board the tach needle was jumping all over. Max power on one was only like 138hp and the max RPM's was over 8k. The 8k+ redline was a clear tip off something was screwy.

59 runs! Whoa jsut read that part....they couldn't have messed up that much. Do they have any other cars making too little power?

tonydatyga

that's it, who wants to open a shop in utah? i don't think i've even run over 40 runs on any one car... they aren't charging you for like 35 hours of dyno time are they?

H22AMedina

do you have injector resistors? That may help, and you most defiinately need to put up the dynoplot

CleanHatch

i believe its a wiring problem. using a p28 on a lude motor works good! i have it on my 98 prelude. pulls hard! when vtec kicks-in. if you say it hits 150 at 5000rpm and just stops from there to 8k than vtec is not engaging! a guarentee you that. look at the dyno graphs and you can always tell when vtec kicks in. post up the dyno graphs. it will be more helpfull for us to see the graphs. 150hp is like a prelude si. and also you have hondadata? damn with bigger injectors and good tuning you should be around 170-180hp.