Crxh22ajdm

first of all sorry for misspealling, my firsy language is not English


ok I have a bone stock H22A on a Cd5 what headers should I get for best pw/tq, and what headers should I avoid? Tanks

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

Avoid the Dc Sports they suck and are a waste of time and money...get some headers like Vibrant or these check this thread out...Please I hope any moderator here on HT wont kill me for putting this URL to another forum on here...just trying to help this guy out.....http://www.preludepower.com/forums/s...d.php?t=313773

98vtec

Id go vibrant before i put those knockoffs on. The knockoffs often have terrible clearance issues between the crossmember as well as the ground.

Vibrant is a great option for the h22. Hit up Rosko @ Rosko Racing for one.

Also, avoid bisimoto like its the plague

Don Jefe

to Rosko for sure. Do you have any experience with ESP's header? I know that their traction and strut bars are second to none, but I've heard very little about their manifolds.

This_thread_sucks_now

Time to make some friends:

Qualitative statements. Worthless observations.
Worthless opinion and criticism of DC product with NO TUNING

Didn't cite example for DC header known to crack. No personal experience, worthless comment.

A pinhole is a $10 fix at muffler shop or anyone with a MIG welder. Not a legitimate excuse to discount a mass-produced aftermarket header.

Juvenile, opinionated comment.

Partly true. Stock exhaust is a big restriction. So is the stock header, Euro-R or not.

Stock header/DP is crappier than DC when comparing collectors.

In 2004 I built an 11:1CR h22A1, ported head, portmatched IM/TB/Type-S cams, with adj. cam gears, street/dyno tuned on CROME/P28 with a straight through header-back exhaust and a STOCK HEADER. It made 170whp. Changing to a DC header and retune make 200whp changing only one physical component.

Compare collectors:
DC sports
Stock H22

Nice(er) collectors make a big difference.

Unqualified statements. No back to back dynos. No same-day, consistent average drag times before or after. No basis for comparison. Mere opinion and poorly formed opinion at that. Non-stock setups on stock ECU are not apples-to-apples comparisons.

Better how? Better in what way? How is it worse? Less power? More power? peakier power curve? Less torque? Hard to tune? Hard to install? Hard to describe? Generalised statements are worthless conjecture.

Don't be naïve. Make your own decisions based off real data not a bunch of teenagers on the internet that have no idea how to test an automotive product.

Sad but true until he sorts out his suppliers/QC.


So have I got some friends now? What a waste of bandwidth and time. Can we lock this thread now?

98vtec

Change your location.

Your 30whp pickup with a stock replacement header holds zero water with me. There are other issues there.

The stock header isnt all that bad. It has its flaws certainly, but what factory part doesnt when your talking about power

This_thread_sucks_now

Want me to go fetch the .drfs and put up a graph? I can actually back my statements up, unlike most of the people in this thread.

You're a Mod señor 98vtec, can't you change my location for me? You'd mod me and my profile, but not frivolous threads like this? Where's the old moderator with an Iron Fist of days gone by? Why's the thread not locked yet?

Just being honest.

*edit*

Haha, I just noticed this is a thread similar to the one I actually got all the quotes out of. oops. Can I double-post it in the other thread or should I delete these ones and move to the other thread I'm bitching about:

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-prelude-4/98-prelude-dc-sports-4-2-1-header-feels-slower-then-stock-headers-3128581/

^^That's the worthless one.

98vtec

I dont care if you have a graph. I know enough about these engines and what they want to know there is more to that story to pick up 15% power from a header that has dimensions so close to stock on an engine that is not far from stock.

And just because im a mod doesnt mean i can change your profile. Im not a baby sitter. If i ask you to do something then do it. Im not a teenager anymore, i have no need or drive to be an ******* for no reason. If you push me there, sure. Its not locked because i make those decisions, not you.

Now, change your location or remove it.

Bouckaroo

^I think the bisi header gets more gainS than the dc and the vibrant, it may not put out as much as the Logic or other higher expense ones but it putS out far far above the stock and the dc ****. I think the only issue with the Bisi is getting one that fits correctly.

I think it is weird how people rag on the bisi header as it does make more power than stock by a large number. Over stock, it would be great addition, although for the price you could get somthing like a try Y from kteller or something and have a few hundred to spare.

98vtec

It doesnt do anything bisi marketed it as and it does terrible in the midrange. A peaky power increase with a bad midrange will make a street car run like dog ***.

I dont support liars like him.

Bouckaroo

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...=167708&page=3

There isnt allot of dyno info out there for the bisi headers, but this thread has some good comparisons, and this guy made 9 hp more over the stock jdm header with a 2.5 pipe. Sounds like a good gain to me and there is also dyno pre and post install to show the difference. Now thats not sayign its the greatest header in the world but it does make more power than stock and other setup so it cant be discoutned altogether. Ok fine, it doesnt put out the nunebrs that everyone says it does, but that jsut cuz bad marketing an dinnacurate representation doenst make it a non performing part. hell, anytime you open up the exhaust and allow more flow you will make more power(within reason).

Now the other thign, is so many people rag bisis, but most of them dont know how he use to whoop *** street racing and how he would beat many many people. Im not riding his tail or nothign either as i knwo there are faar better products out there but the guy does deserve some respect, he is an engineer after all right?


With that said, im still waitign for my bisi to be sent back to me with the correct fitment and proper flanging. All in all the delay is mainly my fault as i cannot label a package if my life depended on it, but with that said im stille excite to see what kind of difference it makes over my k teller tri y. Although odds are by teh time it gets back to me it will be going into the h swapped civic i have and may need "customization" anyway.

98vtec

The peak power is not my concern. On every header test done with his by third parties, he has come in last. Yes, back in the day when he was concerned with racing and truly being innovative instead of a political businessman, many people respected him. Nowadays? Not so much. Hes been pulling the engineer card for far too long

Bouckaroo

^ yes i agree there, but i try keep the positive in people as his fab skills are pretty good and he does hold some records for fasted fwd cars out there. I mean, anytime you can hit below tens in a fwd car with small fourbanger you gott be doign somehting right. I dislike all the dynoshow cars he makes, but they still are fast so.

I

ESP.net

Vibrant... has good runner size and true 2.5" collector

2nd would be Tri Way H22 Logic Motor Sports Header... it will make more power then the Vibrant however it's downside is fitment, cross member, stock frount mount and bracket, Lastly is the quality the welds are going to break it is made in china expect to be patching it up...

After saying that... Vibrant piece is probably the best quality piece with no issues on fitment nor welds... I don't believe it is made in China either...

NirVTEC

7yo account with 9 posts??? I wonder who he REALLY is........



Double Time on that Vibrant. With their Version 1, I saw a 9whp/6tq gain over the Greddy. And that was just a pretty Street Header. I have said since 2005, without coughing up $1k+, the Vibrant is as good as it gets......

DC 30whp gain LOLZZZZZZZ You forgot the (.) after the 3 bro, cool story though. B)

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

This guy needs to be locked not the thread..... thanks for copying and pasting some of the things I said in my other thread. Also I just wanted to say we are suppose to be helping the OP with what header he should be getting not arguing about nonsense and in my own opinion DC Sports aren't made to make power on a euro-r h22 only the USDM h22's.

integra_101

to all the people who are talking crap about DC headers, clearly never owned a set.

They're amazing for the price

98vtec

Explain amazing

AznBlueBoy

for the price, they are actually garbage.
It's basically a shiny stock header with almost no gains. How much is it anyways? I didn't know they still sell them. You must own a set and think they're amazing because you never owned a GOOD header.

Bouckaroo

for the price the dc sports is a waste of both moeny and time. You can get a tri y repllica from kteller for just a little more than than the dc sports and see way better gains from it. I know the kteller tri y i have was like a 1/4 of the cost of the logic and cheaper than the tri y's kronn sold(nothign wrong with those either). Bang for buck, IMO the kteller and the vibrant are about equal. With headers though, you cant expect cheap and good to be in the same sentance when looking for a good header.

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

Hell yeah the DC Sports are pure crap, such a waste of time and money integra101, I have owned three sets and for the most part they do well on b-series but the h-series they are a stock replacement and anyone would be better off without them. As far as the cost goes they are $360 for cermaic and $413 for stainless steel, tell me that's not a waste of $$...

This_thread_sucks_now

Yes, refuse to accept blunt criticism of your invalid arguments. Beautiful refutation! Way to rise to the occasion and tell me precisely why I am 100% wrong on all counts of my criticism.

You just don't like that I'm openly criticising your soft evaluation of an entry level product. I'm unwilling to coddle you and your ilk, I'm not going to knuckle under and agree with you now that you're a self-proclaimed authority on the matter.

NirVTEC, where is your usual acidic treatment of the ignorant and n00bs? Where's the NirVTEC that was once Banned for not taking **** lying down?

Tune Blake's 280whp motor on a stock header, then retune it on a Crap DC sports and I will put money that the DC is head and shoulders better. On a stock motor though the difference doesn't mean much.

Sure, if you get a DC for $50 off Craigslist. They've been produced for so long there's absolutely no reason to pay retail for one.

Crxh22ajdm, follow the positive input form the people that have eperience and TUNE IT to reap the greatest benefits of the swap. Don't be like thrisk66; realize the folly of his ways.

-TTSN

98vtec

I have already told you why you are out of line. There was SOMETHING else that helped you gain those 30whp. Whether it be a different dyno, a wacked out tune prior and a better tune after, a crushed stock header..etc. There is no way in hell you gained 30whp and im not going to sit here idly and let you try and prove that because you cant. Yes, I just said you can't. If Randy Owens can make 220whp on a STOCK bottom end/built head with a stock header then WOW he would have made 250whp with a DC....no that doesnt happen. Why? because the dimensions of the DC are not suited to pick up 30whp. Hell even a full out custom header couldnt pick up that much power on a type S build. The stock header is not choking that setup enough to see the slight difference in the DC make that much more power. If you honestly believe the non sense you are speaking of, you are fooling yourself.

And you dont like that i have called you out. So what, prove me wrong. Years upon years of product knowledge and testing and understanding exhaust design in particular to our engine will not allow me to give into your information.


He grew up.

I dont care what a stock/DC would do for a race motor. You'd be dumb for running either. This header should only be used as a stock replacement. thats it. The performance aspect of it is null. If it gained 30whp on your wimpy motor, it would gain 60 on a built motor with cams. yea...that is seriously what you are saying. And its dumb.

Crxh22ajdm

lots of talking with no Dyno Graphics, I know 98vtec knows alot of this engines, I enjoy learning, reading on the faq section, ill go for the vibrant headers, tanks alot for the replying Guys

This_thread_sucks_now

So no deal then?

That's alright. At least I didn't resort to personal attacks and my arguments aren't those of a child's.

Cheers.