the p72 (gsr ecu) uses a knock sensor.
so does a p30.

and as far a not throwing codes it all depends on what program it is and what is turned off and on. i ahvetn seen anything that hondata does that a chipped ecu and tuner coudlnt do...except turn that nice profit that is.

and as far as running no knock sensor i dont see how the hell an h22a will blow it self apart without a knock sensor, ive been runnign one for near 2 years on a p28 and it works great, makes good power, teh honda knock sensor and knoc retard is pretty weak compared to newer cars with better systems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by david_rg79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, if you look at what the engine was designed for the h22 and what not came with the knock sensor becasue they have very agressive timming maps, where as your single cam motors that are for economy dont have the agressive timming map have alot more room for error.

I have been building imports for 6 years now and i would never run a import without a knock sensor, unless its an economy car

I'm no honda pro, however i have built many 3sgte's, 7mgte's, 2b18a1's and one h22, and i have made sure the knock sensors are working properly, becasue engines that come with knock sensors need them working properly, the b18 i believe didnt have them and i installed gm knock sensors on them and wired them up so we could monitor the knock voltage though the standalone

Most the people on this board have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to the saftey of your motor and how to actually make power with your motor...Most people do not understand that timming is where the power is at, its not having the perfect air fuel ratio or running more boost...its getting the timming setup correctally, and honda did that with h22 and with the agressiveness of the map i would not cut the knock sensor out of the picture

I bet most these guys who say u dont need a knock sensor have NEVER tuned a car with standalone, or even understand how to tune a car with a safc, they probably put one of those gay blinky autometer air fuel ratio lights in their car and think everything is ok when the lights are green

I may be a litte more conservative, but when it comes to the saftey of your motor and mostly your pocket book i say play it safe bro

i need to do a few tests and monitor the knock voltage on stock honda knock sensor vs the gm knock sensor for a 1988 camero, because that gm sensor is the one that works for most toyotas and its only 28bux

sorry I'm new to the honda board, I own an accord as my daily driver, but my babies are toyotas</TD></TR></TABLE>

have ya ever looked at a stock p13 timing map before? and have you ever tuned a near stock h22 on the dyno before? if you have you'd know that it's pretty hard to get an h22 to knock in stock form. your power will drop off before u start to knock.

The only thing honda uses the knock sensor for is idiots who think regular octane gas is good idea to put in an h22 , otherwise the knock sensor is pretty useless in a stock ecu. The knock sensor board on a stock honda ecu is not very advanced at all, hence why i say its pretty useless.

 

"oh yeah and as fas your buddies "jun" tuned chip, he hsould really learn what is on a chip and how it performs before driving it hard, thats not the chips fault its the drivers fault."

I never said it was the chips fault, however if he had gotten an ecu that was tuned properly for his car then he would have not blown up

All i'm saying is that i tune "non-stock" cars and i would never run without a knock sensor in stock or not car

seriously what happens when he gets a bad tank of gass and goes to rod the SOB, he will be crying as the tow truck hauls his car away...

In short get a knock sensor buddy, fork up the $$$...... if you want to play hard you need to stop pinching pennies and buy what your car needs to be safe, or you will be spending more in the long run

If i remeber correctally the knock sensor gives diffrent resistance readings to the ecu and when a knock sensor goes bad the ground is broke, so if you were to ground the wire it would be telling the ecu NO KNOCK...i dont reccomend this however it will get u by

 

last bad tank of gas i got i poured in 2 gallons of xylene to help it get through.


jsut a poitn as well...from what i know honda knock sensors are ignored by the ecu in open loop and over 5k rpm. least that is what i have always known.

 

I got a used KS and everything is back to normal now. I will wait until I can afford a P28 with the correct chip+hondata + tuned+somehow get a KS wired into the P28.

 

glad to hear you didnt skimp out on that...
I generally only chat with turbo guys, and i was gonna say happy boosting, but i think Happy Vtecing works better

cheers David

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EuRoBrO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got a used KS and everything is back to normal now. I will wait until I can afford a P28 with the correct chip+hondata + tuned+somehow get a KS wired into the P28.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hondata and p28 and knock sensor do not all go together. to make a p28 support knock it would need a knokc board added on to it. at that point its is functionally similar to a p30, but the cost of modding it unless you can do it yourself will probably be higher than buying a p30.

what david_rg79 is saying is all true and good info, but to me it also shows a substantial misconception about how well honda knock boards work on obd1 ecus. all his talk is barking up the wrong tree with how well the honda knock sensor is working. at high rpm valvetrain noise can actually cause it to trip. so at higher rpm it shuts off, same as when you floor it...it shuts off. any time you run in open loop the knock sensor is worthless. when the knock sensor works is under 5k rpm at part throttle. if you had a subaru wrx, or a mitsubishi eclipse, or evo...id say you NEED that knock snesor, but with the way honda implemented it on teh ecus that will work on your prelude you are wasting your time stressing about it. i dont do work on OTHER cars, i only work on Honda's and over all the honda knock system to me is a waste of time. if knock detection is really needed going with an aftermarket ecu, or a J&S Safeguard is what is needed to properly handle knock.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by david_rg79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"I will just buy that instead of wasting money towards another Knock Sensor."

am i the only person who sees something worng with this statment?

You need your knock sensor, Honda put it there for a reason</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you are putting too much faith into your knock sensor helping you @ WOT.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastludeh22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thats different. i meant off the self chips. ill fix my post.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not all of them suck. I got a great one from JDMshit.com. I dropped .5s and gained 2mph after simply swapping it in. I bought a wideband for a more in depth tuning and decided to through it on w/ that ecu. Well the a/f line was very very flat. Perfect for just a slight adjustment on my FPR and it was between 12.8 and 13.1 through my entire rev range.

You can look @ my review of it through this post:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=877578

 

well once you go play with the big boys in the 300-500hp you will understand why i stress about knock sensor...havent used much on chipped ecus on hondas i go stright to AEM for all the cars i work on...i dont have much love for any stock ecu except the WRX i think its pretty neat

and as another dude said "I'm trusting the ks to much at WOT" i believe that when you tune you need to listen for the audible noise, and use the knock sensor....once you have a good knock parameter setup "seeing what is normal engine noise vs real detonation" then you can actually start to rely on the knock sensor a litte more....

 

you are not understanding that the knock sensor is very limited. on a stock honda ecu whether using a stock or modified rom the knock sensor is worthles for what you are saying it should be good for. with something like an aem system or anything that youc an actually program knck sensor parameters it would be great to have one, and i would use them...but isng stock hond hardware it wont work when you need it the most.....