New product - For those building their engine.
10-21-2003, 05:09 AM
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New product - For those building their engine.
Hey Everyone,
I work for Federal-Mogul, who if you don't know makes many engine products like pistons, cams, bearings, lifters... I spacifically work in Seals and Gaskets.
I'm trying to get a feel if there is interest out their to manufacture low torque, teflon crankshaft seals for honda's, similar to the ones using in racing applications like F1, Champ cars, and even the low tech Nascar series. The idea is that by lowering the friction between the crank seals and the crank more power will go to the wheels where we want it. I'm an import junkie (That's why I belong to H-T and PreludeOnline) so I'm pushing to get Federal Mogul into more high performance aftermarket import applications. These teflon seals are primarily used on Heavy Duty, light truck and GM applications because of their increased life (3X) and reduced torque/Drag on the crank. All other OE's arn't willing to pay the increased cost yet. We actully already have all the tooling to make all the front and rear honda seals so cost wouldn't be very low. The cost would be around $15 for a front and $25 for a rear seal. Not much more than an OEM seal. As you know teflon is very expensive, and thus the price increase over a elastomeric seal.
It's a small upgrade, but it would be worth it if your building your engine. I can't supply dyno data, but i can get tourque test data if you guys would like and that will directly translate to the extra (saved) torque going to the wheels. You might be surprised how much drag an elastomeric seal has!
Anyone interested???
I work for Federal-Mogul, who if you don't know makes many engine products like pistons, cams, bearings, lifters... I spacifically work in Seals and Gaskets.
I'm trying to get a feel if there is interest out their to manufacture low torque, teflon crankshaft seals for honda's, similar to the ones using in racing applications like F1, Champ cars, and even the low tech Nascar series. The idea is that by lowering the friction between the crank seals and the crank more power will go to the wheels where we want it. I'm an import junkie (That's why I belong to H-T and PreludeOnline) so I'm pushing to get Federal Mogul into more high performance aftermarket import applications. These teflon seals are primarily used on Heavy Duty, light truck and GM applications because of their increased life (3X) and reduced torque/Drag on the crank. All other OE's arn't willing to pay the increased cost yet. We actully already have all the tooling to make all the front and rear honda seals so cost wouldn't be very low. The cost would be around $15 for a front and $25 for a rear seal. Not much more than an OEM seal. As you know teflon is very expensive, and thus the price increase over a elastomeric seal.
It's a small upgrade, but it would be worth it if your building your engine. I can't supply dyno data, but i can get tourque test data if you guys would like and that will directly translate to the extra (saved) torque going to the wheels. You might be surprised how much drag an elastomeric seal has!
Anyone interested???
10-21-2003, 05:49 AM
#3
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I'd be interested if it came out in the next few weeks, or if i ever build another H-motor again. My motor will be complete relatively soon, so I wish it was out sooner.
10-21-2003, 07:22 AM
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Re: (RacingLude)
i would probably be interested.
Since u say they make other parts pistons/rods etc.. How bout We get some nice strong turbo connecting rods for the h23 that don't cost 700???
Since u say they make other parts pistons/rods etc.. How bout We get some nice strong turbo connecting rods for the h23 that don't cost 700???
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10-21-2003, 07:45 AM
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Re: (flip1199)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flip1199 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would probably be interested.
Since u say they make other parts pistons/rods etc.. How bout We get some nice strong turbo connecting rods for the h23 that don't cost 700???</TD></TR></TABLE>
I hear ya....I'd be interested also..and flip, contact dlb1994 cause he can get cheap rods for us h23's. I just can't remember if they are manley or probe.
Since u say they make other parts pistons/rods etc.. How bout We get some nice strong turbo connecting rods for the h23 that don't cost 700???</TD></TR></TABLE>
I hear ya....I'd be interested also..and flip, contact dlb1994 cause he can get cheap rods for us h23's. I just can't remember if they are manley or probe.
10-21-2003, 08:19 AM
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Re: (Paluce)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paluce »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can have seals in 3-4weeks!</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll take a set if you can do it that soon.... I'll be putting the motor back together in the next 1.5-2 months waiting on some other stuff still.....
-Jeff-
I'll take a set if you can do it that soon.... I'll be putting the motor back together in the next 1.5-2 months waiting on some other stuff still.....
-Jeff-
10-21-2003, 04:43 PM
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Re: New product - For those building their engine. (Paluce)
Well I expect they'd last 3x, but to be able to provide dyno charts of a gain... surely you jest. If you can see a difference on a dyno, that would be what... a couple hp? You're claiming a ordinary seal dissapates 2hp? That's roughly 1500watts of heat. I don't think so.
Just stick to saying it's a little better, as anything else is misleading.
Just stick to saying it's a little better, as anything else is misleading.
10-21-2003, 06:38 PM
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Re: New product - For those building their engine. (kb58)
kb58, ??? What ???
Who ever said anything about a spacific hp gain? Please don't put words in my mouth.
I said I couldn't get dyno data, please re-read my post.
I said I was working on getting torque test data which you could translate to saved torque to the wheels. This test is just a seal on a shaft measuring the torque required to rotate the shaft at a certain speed and temp. Maby I should have been more spacific, but my post was running long. I will post this when the testing is complete.
Who ever said anything about a spacific hp gain? Please don't put words in my mouth.
I said I couldn't get dyno data, please re-read my post.
I said I was working on getting torque test data which you could translate to saved torque to the wheels. This test is just a seal on a shaft measuring the torque required to rotate the shaft at a certain speed and temp. Maby I should have been more spacific, but my post was running long. I will post this when the testing is complete.
10-21-2003, 06:41 PM
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Re: New product - For those building their engine. (Paluce)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paluce »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I said I was working on getting torque test data which you could translate to saved torque to the wheels. This test is just a seal on a shaft measuring the torque required to rotate the shaft at a certain speed and temp. Maby I should have been more spacific, but my post was running long. I will post this when the testing is complete. </TD></TR></TABLE>
That was my understanding as well. Just test data, not like anyone is really going to dyno test them.
That was my understanding as well. Just test data, not like anyone is really going to dyno test them.
10-21-2003, 08:22 PM
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Re: New product - For those building their engine. (racerx)
I'll have seals in 3-4 weeks.
An estimate on price right now is $15 for the front, and $25. The rear is much larger... We already have the tooling to make these seals, so that does not have to be built into the per unit cost, which means cheap!
An estimate on price right now is $15 for the front, and $25. The rear is much larger... We already have the tooling to make these seals, so that does not have to be built into the per unit cost, which means cheap!
10-21-2003, 08:53 PM
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Re: New product - For those building their engine. (Paluce)
im interested .............let us know as soon as possible if it going to happened for sure..thanx
10-22-2003, 06:42 AM
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Re: New product - For those building their engine. (Paluce)
Okay, my bad. But when I see "will directly translate to the extra (saved) torque going to the wheels," it's logical to extend that saved torque to meaning "increased power, no? Will it make a power difference? Yes, but is it measurable in in terms of any sort of practical performance gain, I doubt it. So while it is indeed a good idea from an engineering/reliability standpoint, it shouldn't be expected to give you a better 1/4mile time.
10-22-2003, 06:56 AM
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This is going to happen for sure. I'll let everyone know when I have seals in my hand.
No H23a1 rods, sorry. We need a guy pushing aftermarket import parts in the powertrain devision I guess.
No H23a1 rods, sorry. We need a guy pushing aftermarket import parts in the powertrain devision I guess.
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