MugenPoweredLude

Im in a bind here i dont know whether to get Mugen or DC Sports headers. Do Mugen headers really put out the hp??? or is it just hype...or do DC headers put out the hp???? which do you guys suggest????if anyone has had experience or dynoed or whatever please share the info...thanks

Sticky Tires

Mugen Mugen Mugen

hondaZvic

from ur screen name.. i believe u would be much happier if u just shelled out for the mugen....

bb6h22a

..a DC sports header on my '99 base, and the only reason I have it? B/C it was free. Why is it still on? B/C it's equal, in performance, to stock, but more importantly, it weight marketedly less; which, to me is the biggest gain. The Mugen does make more power, up top, the DC is equal to stock pretty much all the way through the powerband, sorry to say.

Go for the mugen, or just stay stock.

Ritteri

The Mugen is pretty equal to stock too. Not worth the money at all. Unless you just want to pay for the name. I had a chance for either one. I went for the DC sports header. Its collector is about 20% larger than each primary which is exactly what you want in a header on an inline 4 engine. If you want to spend money on mugen products that are worth their weight in gold, grab the Showa suspension. But Mugen's exhaust products are nothing to get excited over.


[Modified by Ritteri, 10:13 PM 12/7/2002]

0Mike95lude

If you got the money, Mugen is definately a better choice.

TimeRacer

Why do you say this again? Do I need to restate all the things about the DC header here too? Overall the DC header is almost the same as stock, the collector is 2mm (if I remembe correctly) larger than stock. Overall it's a piece that if you install it's to say "I have a DC header in here." If you want to spend the same amount of money, it would be cheaper to port your stock headers. Mugen is a much better piece with longer primaries, better merges, and a larger collector. It combines the gas pulses a lot better (going by dynos) than DC headers.

Final Flash

You're insane. If you've never owned any Mugen exhaust products, how can you rate/critique/down them if <U>you really don't know?</U> The build quality on anything made by Mugen is second to none. period, end of story. Hell I would have bought my Mugen exhaust for it's distinct sound alone. Have you ever even heard a Mugen exhaust b4?

And if that's not enough, here's the post with the dyno that aklucsarits had done with the Mugen header/exhaust combo: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=278094. You name another 5th Gen exhaust/header combo that gains 12+ whp. Thank you. Next.

thatpreludeguy

For all the time I've been on all the boards reading and watching dyno plots etc the Mugen Header is one of the only Mugen product I would buy. IMHO it's the only piece that really seems to be worth the extra $$$. It's a masterpiece and although on the top end it's only making 5-7 more hp I've seen some plots gain as much as 10-13hp in certain RPM ranges. I have a Neuspeed N2 header (rebadged DC) and the only reason I went that route was I hit a pot hole and crimped the factory downpipe.

If you can afford the $$ for the Mugen go for it.

Final Flash

Whoops, almost forgot!

Oh yeah, that looks just like the DC header.


See if you can tell which one is the shitty stock header.


[Modified by heihachi, 9:19 PM 12/7/2002]

blacklude

How would you guys rate a dc header with the 2.5" collector mod?

I've heard a lot about this mod but have yet to see any dyno charts comparing it to a regular dc header.

Ritteri

Well that picture does show alot. Just how similiar the aftermarket one is to the stock unit(albeit much prettier). There are many ideas about header pipe sizing. Usually the primary pipe sizing is related to exhaust valve and port size. Header pipe length is dependent on wave tuning (or lack of it). Typically, longer pipes tune for lower r.p.m. power and the shorter pipes favor high r.p.m. power. The collector package is dependent on the number of cylinders, the engine configuration (V-8, inline 6, etc.), firing order and the basic design objectives (interference or independence). The collector outlet size is determined by primary pipe size and exhaust cam timing.

The Mugen header(not even made by mugen) once again is very similiar to the stock unit. Adding a "larger collector" to the DC unit would be a waste for 2 reasons.

1. If you are going to weld on a larger collector, then better lengthen the primaries.
2. Better be getting rid of the stock cat in place of a high flo cat(which I have yet to see a DC header or any other for that matter dynoed with either a straight pipe or a high flo cat)otherwise no header is going to make any real hp. Wonder why the DC header makes negligible hp in all those dynos using the stock cat??? Thats like dynoing your engine while having a few bananas stuffed into your muffler. A big waste.

Final Flash

Excuse me, but what info do you have that Mugen products are not actually made Mugen? Because I have never heard anything even resembling that.

Ritteri

From what I understand the Mugen header is made by another Japanese company and then Mugen slaps their badge on em. I ran across a header for less than half the price of the Mugen that looked exactly the same, right down to the welds. Ill try and post the link up before the night is up.

bb6h22a

There are MANY taiwanese companies that knock off, replicate, and market EXACT copies, or shades of seperation within, of authentic japanese merchandise; this may well be what you saw. The only instance, that I'm aware of, where 'mugen' goods aren't actually made by mugen are the wheels, which are actually manufactured by Rays Engineering/Volk, et al., also Mugen valve springs are actually Honda OEM goods; then again, the realtionship is close to blurring the difference, regarding motorsport and development.

rjr162

not true. Well atleast not engineering. Mugen makes their own stuff. Also, Honda is not mugen (for those of you who run around with "Powered by Mugen" on your cars without any of their parts. Mugen is run by Honda's son (or was it grand son i forget now)... it's a really close partnership, and i've read mugen is going to start making their own cars soon.. true or not, not a clue, but i could see it happening.

Final Flash

Blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda; all I'm saying dude is that dynos don't lie. It may look similar, but obviously it's not.

Whatever. The aforementioned Mugen header dyno was done with the stock cat on the car as well, so that still doesn't explain why the DC header generates no real hp.

Please, don't throw hearsay and rumors and opinions around as if they're facts.

rjr162

BTW something to look for, the length of the primary runners will increase the HP. The longer and straighter it is as it exits the head, the more HP increase you'll have. I have a book with a list of dyno's from various headers from DC and i think it was Neuspeed (made by holley from everything I've heard) to the Jackson Racing. The JR produced the biggest HP increase and also had the longest straightest runners

GSR

visual

SMSP headers? hehe dont Flame me please!! but yeah

MuGeN

H22pwrd

get 2 hotshot headers for the price you're gonna pay for the Mugen

TimeRacer

For anyone who's actually compared the Mugen and stock to DC you'll find that DC and stock share a lot (far too many in my personal opinion) similarities. The runners are the same length, the ID is virutally the same and the collector is a meager 1.8" from what I've heard. For most of us, an aftermarket exhaust will be in order or eventual order for us as well, and most exhausts that are found have an ID ~60mm which matches the Mugen exhaust ID perfectly. Yes, for us in California (I'm included) the cat will be the restriction in the system since we have the lovely CARB and strict smog.

Mugen is an expensive piece but if you consider the amount of work that goes into a header design and the amount of R&D that actually goes into a header the price is right. Which is why you still find SMP and HyTech headers around $1300. Either way, figure out which is best for your needs and your budget and go with that one. Mugen you will only yeild around 3-5 whp total but make sure the rest of the system breathes just as well.

BoostedH23a1

mugen if u can afford that ****..

piotrush

Yes, but those 12 whp cost him ~$2000. Think of how much you can do to a car for 2 grand.

Personally, instead of getting a DC and modding the collector to 2 1/2 in., I'm going to mod my stock collector to 2 1/4 in + High flow cat because I can use that combo with a standard 60mm exhaust.

MugenPoweredLude

what i wanted to see is actaul proof whether it was dc or mugen and i was hoping for some mugen numbers...and you all delievered...im gonna get the mugen. thankd for all the help and info.
aklucsarits, thanks for the dyno charts....that really swung my decision from DC to Mugen...thanks again.