how reliable is h23 vtec?
12-01-2003, 09:51 AM
#26
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Re: (AndyD)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AndyD »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Build the H23VTEC and don't rev it past 6500...you should be fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Mine gets reved to 8000 daily.... and it has an even more radical stroke than the h23. Build it right and you will be fine.
Build the H23VTEC and don't rev it past 6500...you should be fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Mine gets reved to 8000 daily.... and it has an even more radical stroke than the h23. Build it right and you will be fine.
12-01-2003, 01:20 PM
#27
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Re: (2point6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2point6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Mine gets reved to 8000 daily.... and it has an even more radical stroke than the h23. Build it right and you will be fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>
But you also have a forged or welded custom crank, don't ya?
It's not the R/S ratio or anything, although that's not too good on the bearings. It's the stock crank's design. I don't believe it should be revved to 8k PERIOD, no matter what prep. was done. I think it can be revved a bit past 7k if balanced, but that's just my opinion.
To make the extra power this engine is made to produce, you must rev it past 6500
Mine gets reved to 8000 daily.... and it has an even more radical stroke than the h23. Build it right and you will be fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>
But you also have a forged or welded custom crank, don't ya?
It's not the R/S ratio or anything, although that's not too good on the bearings. It's the stock crank's design. I don't believe it should be revved to 8k PERIOD, no matter what prep. was done. I think it can be revved a bit past 7k if balanced, but that's just my opinion.
To make the extra power this engine is made to produce, you must rev it past 6500
12-01-2003, 06:25 PM
#28
Re: (92preludeSIwp)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92preludeSIwp »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you turn down vtec (when it kicks in ) and you redline at lets say 6800 then you only us it from 6200 to 6800 you aren't getting your full power band usage from that you can still make power past 6800 so if you tune the vtec down to kick in a 58 then you will have a better power band. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I still dont get your point..
I still dont get your point..
12-01-2003, 10:40 PM
#30
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Re: how reliable is h23 vtec? (PreLudexSi)
Since you in Cali....send a email or call up Jeff @ ImportBuilders. I know he used to have (dunno if he still does) have a H23 Vtec that he built up and from what i've heard, running strong still.
If you build it right and do it right the first time, it'll be fine.
If you build it right and do it right the first time, it'll be fine.
12-02-2003, 07:21 AM
#31
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Re: (LudeyKrus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But you also have a forged or welded custom crank, don't ya?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
My crank is a rewelded h22 crank. Just the rod journals were altered not the mains. As far as the crank breakage pictured above, there are differences in the material make up in the cranks (h22 vs. h23) as well as the counterweighting design. This may have contributed to the damage, but looking at how discolored the main caps are and the crank (in both cases) as well leads me to believe that there was a possible oiling issue. When I have built these engines, I have noticed that the oil clearance is tighter on the center journal. I usually line bore all of the journals to the same size and run slightly "looser" clearances to promote oil flow. I also shim the oil pump to increase pressure... so maybe that is why I have few problems with this set-up. I guess I am just going to have to break a crank myself to get it through my thick skull, but I feel 8K is reasonable. Now, you must consider as well what cams will be used, because with stroker engines like this, they work better with higher lift and less duration, so that will decrease the rev range itself. If the engine only makes power to 7500 RPM, then why rev it beyond that?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
My crank is a rewelded h22 crank. Just the rod journals were altered not the mains. As far as the crank breakage pictured above, there are differences in the material make up in the cranks (h22 vs. h23) as well as the counterweighting design. This may have contributed to the damage, but looking at how discolored the main caps are and the crank (in both cases) as well leads me to believe that there was a possible oiling issue. When I have built these engines, I have noticed that the oil clearance is tighter on the center journal. I usually line bore all of the journals to the same size and run slightly "looser" clearances to promote oil flow. I also shim the oil pump to increase pressure... so maybe that is why I have few problems with this set-up. I guess I am just going to have to break a crank myself to get it through my thick skull, but I feel 8K is reasonable. Now, you must consider as well what cams will be used, because with stroker engines like this, they work better with higher lift and less duration, so that will decrease the rev range itself. If the engine only makes power to 7500 RPM, then why rev it beyond that?
12-02-2003, 07:49 AM
#32
Member
But the thing is i'm pretty sure the H22 and H23 cranks are made from the same materials and processes.....see my thread about it.
The only big difference is the counterweight design, from the looks of it. If properly balanced, I don't see how things could be much different revvin the H23 crank to 8k as compared to swingin the H22 to 8k.
The only big difference is the counterweight design, from the looks of it. If properly balanced, I don't see how things could be much different revvin the H23 crank to 8k as compared to swingin the H22 to 8k.
12-06-2003, 07:24 PM
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Personally, I think that H23VTEC is a good idea, but kinda sketchy at this point. It's worked for some people, not for others, and no one really can point out why certain people are having their engines fail even though they build them rather well.
I just think that a stock H23 bottom end is not going to take high revs. If you do build up the bottom end though, it's pretty much like an LS/VTEC that's built, it can rev higher more safely. IMO, H22 will always be my engine of choice, but for those that want the torque of the H23, more power to ya.
I just think that a stock H23 bottom end is not going to take high revs. If you do build up the bottom end though, it's pretty much like an LS/VTEC that's built, it can rev higher more safely. IMO, H22 will always be my engine of choice, but for those that want the torque of the H23, more power to ya.
12-06-2003, 11:37 PM
#36
Re: (explosive)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by explosive »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Personally, I think that H23VTEC is a good idea, but kinda sketchy at this point. It's worked for some people, not for others, and no one really can point out why certain people are having their engines fail even though they build them rather well.
I just think that a stock H23 bottom end is not going to take high revs. If you do build up the bottom end though, it's pretty much like an LS/VTEC that's built, it can rev higher more safely. IMO, H22 will always be my engine of choice, but for those that want the torque of the H23, more power to ya.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What do yeah mean torque???? The h22 has more peak torque then then the h23........
What you mean is LOWend torque, which dont win you races.
I just think that a stock H23 bottom end is not going to take high revs. If you do build up the bottom end though, it's pretty much like an LS/VTEC that's built, it can rev higher more safely. IMO, H22 will always be my engine of choice, but for those that want the torque of the H23, more power to ya.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What do yeah mean torque???? The h22 has more peak torque then then the h23........
What you mean is LOWend torque, which dont win you races.
12-07-2003, 08:14 AM
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Re: (Cottonwoodz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cottonwoodz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What do yeah mean torque???? The h22 has more peak torque then then the h23........
What you mean is LOWend torque, which dont win you races. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, don't get after me man, I am clearly a bigger fan of the H22...I mean I put one of those in my del Sol, JDMH22...I mean Cottonwoodz.
Some people like the whole low end torque kinda thing for daily driving I guess? Personally the H22 pulls fine from 2k on IMO, but then again, that's probably because I have the thing in a lighter car.
What do yeah mean torque???? The h22 has more peak torque then then the h23........
What you mean is LOWend torque, which dont win you races.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Well, don't get after me man, I am clearly a bigger fan of the H22...I mean I put one of those in my del Sol, JDMH22...I mean Cottonwoodz.
Some people like the whole low end torque kinda thing for daily driving I guess? Personally the H22 pulls fine from 2k on IMO, but then again, that's probably because I have the thing in a lighter car.
12-07-2003, 08:34 AM
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Re: (explosive)
what kinda numbers are you running with the h22 in a del slow? i have run plenty of h22 with my h23 vtec and pissed on them. o well i like the beast personally.
12-07-2003, 09:49 AM
#40
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Re: (satan_srv)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A fully built H22a can make just as much low end torque as an H23 VTEC.</TD></TR></TABLE>
A fully built H23 VTEC can make more torque AND horsepower than a fully built H22
And peak HP is NOT all that matters in drag racing. If you have a motor w/ good low end torque and good hp and one w/ equal HP but poor low-end torque, then the first motor will almost always win.
A fully built H23 VTEC can make more torque AND horsepower than a fully built H22
And peak HP is NOT all that matters in drag racing. If you have a motor w/ good low end torque and good hp and one w/ equal HP but poor low-end torque, then the first motor will almost always win.
12-07-2003, 10:10 AM
#41
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Re: (LudeyKrus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
A fully built H23 VTEC can make more torque AND horsepower than a fully built H22
And peak HP is NOT all that matters in drag racing. If you have a motor w/ good low end torque and good hp and one w/ equal HP but poor low-end torque, then the first motor will almost always win.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well if you think so, my h22a blows away my old H23 VTEC and uses most of the same parts. Given I'm one of the few here that has had both...I think I might know what I'm talking about. I have the same displacement, and the stroke issue isn't a big deal, the H22a has a broader powerband
A fully built H23 VTEC can make more torque AND horsepower than a fully built H22
And peak HP is NOT all that matters in drag racing. If you have a motor w/ good low end torque and good hp and one w/ equal HP but poor low-end torque, then the first motor will almost always win.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well if you think so, my h22a blows away my old H23 VTEC and uses most of the same parts. Given I'm one of the few here that has had both...I think I might know what I'm talking about. I have the same displacement, and the stroke issue isn't a big deal, the H22a has a broader powerband
12-07-2003, 10:20 AM
#42
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Re: (satan_srv)
I'm just gettin down toe the gritty of it: if built to the same level, the motor w/ the same HP but more torque SHOULD win. Of course, to take advantage of each motor you must take gearing into consideration. I am simply saying that if you build out both motors w/ similar parts and processes, and spin them just as high, the bigger-stroke motor SHOULD produce the same or more power w/ a better torque curve.
I know your old H23 VTEC doesn't compare to your current H22; the motor you have is frankly a beast.
Didn't Papadakis use an H23 VTEC in his old drag-Civic?
I know your old H23 VTEC doesn't compare to your current H22; the motor you have is frankly a beast.
Didn't Papadakis use an H23 VTEC in his old drag-Civic?
12-07-2003, 10:31 AM
#43
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Re: (LudeyKrus)
I agree with joel, the h22 or the h23 can be just as powerful if not better than a h23vtec given the right conditions. For example, my fully built h23 (a pile of parts at the moment, but startin sometime this week) should be able to get an h22 off the line, however i don't doubt that a h22 would catch me later on. But you then figure in wether or not its a FI car or high compression etc. IMO the h23 bottom end wasn't built to run like an h22, which is up high on the powerband. Also I think once you start making 350+ hp on a FI car, you can pretty much equalize the two motors thorugh tuning etc........The h23vtec would be ideal on a stock situation, but in high CR's or FI... if you are made of money you could build a nice h23vtec, but in the end whats the point, you can build a equally strong h23 or h22 for less
12-07-2003, 11:33 AM
#44
Re: (spoolinlude)
yes the h22 will make more power than the h23V because of the higher rpm
here is a dyno chart that proves that the h23v has more torque than h22------------is found at ImportReview.com --Dyno charts. if someone can post it in this thread that would be great.
H23V is not the new bad *** engine that people should be looking at. its something different for people to try.
here is a dyno chart that proves that the h23v has more torque than h22------------is found at ImportReview.com --Dyno charts. if someone can post it in this thread that would be great.
H23V is not the new bad *** engine that people should be looking at. its something different for people to try.
12-07-2003, 03:06 PM
#45
Re: (explosive)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by explosive »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, don't get after me man</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wasnt getting after you.
Well, don't get after me man</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wasnt getting after you.
12-08-2003, 09:29 AM
#46
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Re: (H23vtecEG)
see the h22 does have a higher rev that is why we use the h22 head on the h23 block. so we can still make power at high rpms. so we get the torque formt he block rev from the head and over all hp. it makes sense. i have successfully built 3 beastly h23vtec and not one has had any problems. and 2 run boost. mine at 18psi max and john's at 15psi. idiots who don't know there stuff then shut up. just do it right and stop saying that there h22 is better then the h23vtec or the h23 is just as good as h22 if built right. every one has there own opinion.
12-08-2003, 12:14 PM
#47
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IMO the h23 vtec would be a great build for the street and also less expensive than swapping in a h22 if you do it yourself. it would be even be more reliable than a stock h22. i search around for prices and im looking to spend around $1300. probably cheaper if i look harder. compare that to buying a good engine that runs around $2200 if your lucky(price include everything for complete swap).
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head to head the h23 vtec should be able to take the h22 (w/ same bolt ons or in stock form). this is what i mean:
in Dabois' Dyno thread i found satan's stock h22' dyno graph. it made 161@6600whp and 143 @5300wtq. compare that to my basically stock h23 dyno results: 146@5250whp and 149@4750wtq.
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look at the gap between hp rpm and tq rpm on the h22 graph. it is a difference of 1100 rpms. compare to h23 difference only 500 rpms. also the h22 has to be reved higher to acheive those numbers. now add the vtec head on the h23 and the h23 would make power all the way to 6500(fuel cutoff).
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the vtec h23 has the advantages of the h22 and h23.
1. obviously the tunability the vtec has over the stock h23 head.
2.more aftermarket support.
3.then the h23 characteristics of makin power and torque at lower rpms.
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the hybrid should last as long as any engine:
1.if built right the first time ofcourse.
2.this hybrid should be reliable as long as it is not reved past the h23 block limit. reving the **** out an engine is not neccesarily goin to make you horsepower. there are other ways.
3.also the vtec valvetrain would not be stress as is no longer goin to be reved as high as before.
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in the past few weeks i have made a lot research and looks like the best route in my case. hope this was helpful.
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head to head the h23 vtec should be able to take the h22 (w/ same bolt ons or in stock form). this is what i mean:
in Dabois' Dyno thread i found satan's stock h22' dyno graph. it made 161@6600whp and 143 @5300wtq. compare that to my basically stock h23 dyno results: 146@5250whp and 149@4750wtq.
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look at the gap between hp rpm and tq rpm on the h22 graph. it is a difference of 1100 rpms. compare to h23 difference only 500 rpms. also the h22 has to be reved higher to acheive those numbers. now add the vtec head on the h23 and the h23 would make power all the way to 6500(fuel cutoff).
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the vtec h23 has the advantages of the h22 and h23.
1. obviously the tunability the vtec has over the stock h23 head.
2.more aftermarket support.
3.then the h23 characteristics of makin power and torque at lower rpms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the hybrid should last as long as any engine:
1.if built right the first time ofcourse.
2.this hybrid should be reliable as long as it is not reved past the h23 block limit. reving the **** out an engine is not neccesarily goin to make you horsepower. there are other ways.
3.also the vtec valvetrain would not be stress as is no longer goin to be reved as high as before.
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in the past few weeks i have made a lot research and looks like the best route in my case. hope this was helpful.
12-08-2003, 01:43 PM
#48
Member
Re: (SUB-0 H23)
In my humble opinion if you are attempting an H23 VTEC you are either
A) Cheap and Crazy
B) Have money and still crazy
A as in I have an H23 already and it will be cheap to VTEC it. B as in I want to build stroker race motor.
If you are in A I don't recommend it, more headaches than it's worth, and you're cheap so when it starts costing a lot don't whine.
If you are in B, go nuts. You don't care anyway so defy the laws of physics and have a good time. I know I did
A) Cheap and Crazy
B) Have money and still crazy
A as in I have an H23 already and it will be cheap to VTEC it. B as in I want to build stroker race motor.
If you are in A I don't recommend it, more headaches than it's worth, and you're cheap so when it starts costing a lot don't whine.
If you are in B, go nuts. You don't care anyway so defy the laws of physics and have a good time. I know I did
12-08-2003, 02:05 PM
#50
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Re: (satan_srv)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In my humble opinion if you are attempting an H23 VTEC you are either
A) Cheap and Crazy
B) Have money and still crazy
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hey hey hey! Don't go name-callin!
Personally, I chose this project b/c I had blown up my second H23 and was tired of gettin ripped a new one by the VTEC guys. So I had the H23 crank sitting around, and knew that gettin a high-mileage H22 and refreshing it w/ new parts would be the cheapest way to go, I decided to buy the used H22 and refresh it w/ the H23 internals, since it'd be the same price, and be stronger.
I've done the research, and I've prepared the motor the correct way. From what I've read and what I know about motors, more displacement is almost always better, and it is in this case. There is no substantial proof that this motor is a ticking time bomb like everyone says, it simply needs to be built RIGHT, and right the first time. I haven't had a chance to get mine on the road yet, but I will tell everyone from experience when I do!
A) Cheap and Crazy
B) Have money and still crazy
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hey hey hey! Don't go name-callin!
Personally, I chose this project b/c I had blown up my second H23 and was tired of gettin ripped a new one by the VTEC guys. So I had the H23 crank sitting around, and knew that gettin a high-mileage H22 and refreshing it w/ new parts would be the cheapest way to go, I decided to buy the used H22 and refresh it w/ the H23 internals, since it'd be the same price, and be stronger.
I've done the research, and I've prepared the motor the correct way. From what I've read and what I know about motors, more displacement is almost always better, and it is in this case. There is no substantial proof that this motor is a ticking time bomb like everyone says, it simply needs to be built RIGHT, and right the first time. I haven't had a chance to get mine on the road yet, but I will tell everyone from experience when I do!