2LudeToBeRude

Hi everyone my name is marcel im kinda new here so i hope this post is in the right spot..

anyways i recently got a honda prelude off a friend of my friend and its making some weird noises.

it is a 1996 honda prelude si with 267k miles on it but when i got it i was told i had got a new motor put in it which i kinda doubt..

on start up i get a slight ticking noise from what believe to be my cylinder head. i had recently adjusted the valve lash so i know that shouldn't be the problem.

also when i have the car idling and all warmed up i rev it around 2-3k in neutral i get this odd growling/rumbling gurgle kinda sound could that maybe be my lower end of my motor going out (such as a rod knock or rod bearings ?). i had drove it around a few times like this and once i herd the car making a loud snap snap sound for a few mins and then it stopped.

i know my transmission needs a throw out bearing due to me pushing the clutch in and i hear the grinding rumble sound and when i shift the car it kinda sticks and gives a whine but i just need to know what this sound is, i dont really wanna have to take it to the dealer to have them charge me a arm and a leg if i can do the work at my home.

if someone could help i would really be appreciative

2LudeToBeRude

here is a link to a video of the sound i am talking about

JRCivic1

It sounds like rod knock... but I suggest a second opinion from a local garage.

2LudeToBeRude

but wouldn't rod knock be constant even if i am not giving it any gas ? ive noticed it only is making that sound when i give it some revs but if it is at idle it goes away. is it just in the beginning of rod failure then since it isnt going off 24/7

2LudeToBeRude

Gonna be posting more videos today with the odd sounds and what not if someone has anything to say or an idea please let me know I wanna get this baby fixed

JRCivic1

Yes, when the crankshaft is destroyed and the offending bearing is completely mashed out of the rod... it will knock ALL of the time. Are you going to wait until THAT point to seek help ??? There is a chance the crank is still OK if you fix it now. I know this solution sucks... and it certainly isn't what you wanted to hear... however, if you are waiting for someone to offer up a simple solution for you to try instead of the deadly news you have gotten... they would be incorrect and you are prolonging the inevitable. Accept it and get to work.

2LudeToBeRude

So to check and see if the crank and what not is good I need to drop my oil pan right? Then see if I have any leeway between the crank and the piston that rests on top of it correct ?. And here is a weird sound when I was under my car and I was rotating my wheel in neutral http://youtu.be/jv2lC6eJJRk

2LudeToBeRude

so i decided to look at everything today since i had a early start. i didn't see nothing wrong at my crank an pistons looked great with no play down there so this is what i found out.

i found that my cam timing may be off, i lined my head up to tdc and looked at my sight hole on my trans for the white mark, it was off so i turned it over till the white line lined up with the little notch/pointer then I looked at my cams, it was turned 180 degrees from the up arrow position on my cams.

is this most likely what could be causing the issue ? im glad it wasn't the bearings or pistons but i really wanna know whats going on. the car dose feel bogged down too

cityjack

Evening,

I am not an expert on Hondas, yet! But that does not sound like metal slamming on metal to me. It actually sounds like something behind your timing cover. Almost like rubber on plastic or something. I know for a fact if your timing is a little out with the cams, it'll hardly run if at all. My 3rd gen was like that when I had it apart and put it back together slightly wrong. It almost sounds louder on the timing side too.

My 2 cents man.

Good luck.

Sid

2LudeToBeRude

yeah i did notice when i was driving it was bogging quite a bit and when starting her up she cranks for like 1-1 1/2 seconds then turns over for me.

i am getting paid on the 11th so i am gonna take her in to go get looked at to see what is really going on. i really feel its the timing though.

i just want my baby to run right lol

cityjack

Sir,

My opinion and if you have another daily driver to use while this one is down and a place to do the work, download the Helms and try yourself man. Its how you learn. Plus I don't trust anybody messing with my vehicle. You will pay a ton of money for something you probably could have done yourself, and you have absolutely no guarantee that they did what they say they did or more, did what they say they did correctly. Personally, I don't have the cash to have someone throw parts at my car in trial and error. Unless you have a really REALLY trustworthy mechanic and maybe even someones experience with them, I'd opt for learning myself.

Good luck either way you go man.

Sid

2LudeToBeRude

yeah i really wanna do it myself i have a book on my car i just dont have tools to do the job all the way all i got is some sockets and a few socket wrenches . i lost all my tools in storage before i moved to utah. but maybe i can get a friend to come over and help me.

would it be bad if i babied my ride a few miles ? if so i can get it in my works shop an get it on a lift and crack her open with the tools there. i just dont wanna damage anything more that then what may be done already

JRCivic1

Your camshafts turn at half of the speed of the crankshaft... so your TDC timing mark on the flywheel will meet the pointer on the block TWICE for each full revolution of the cam gear. This means that it will be properly aligned when the cam gears are facing UP, and it will also be aligned when the cam gears are 180' out... or the "up" spoke is pointed down. Re inspect your timing marks when the gears are pointed UP, aligning the cam gear marks in an imaginary line that is parallel to the surface of the head casting... then look over at the inspection hole and see if the TDC mark on the flywheel is at or very close to the pointer.

2LudeToBeRude

so i got time to work on her today after work and i aligned everything up to the t and made sure eveything was nice a tight according to spec and she still is making the sound. i noticed as well when i was letting the car warm up she makes huge white clouds of smoke out the exhaust till she is all warm. can this maybe be my piston rings then ? idk im just getting angry and wanna just sell this car and my civic for a crx lol..

i am really thinking of the mechanics shop down the road from me. :/

2LudeToBeRude

just an update for today i was out driving about until i noticed i my check engine light turned on yay..

so i went to my buddies and used his scan tool and checked what was up
i got these codes as follows

p0301- cylinder 1 misfire detected
p0325- knock sensor (rear) circuit malfunction
p0303- cylinder 3 misfire detected
p0304- cylinder 4 misfire detected
p0302- cylinder 2 misfire detected
and p1300 - multiple cylinder misfire detected

he said that it can maybe be my ignition system going out on me or my air fuel ratio is going cray, he also said i should check my egr valve and ports and clean them well.

I guess i can start with cleaning that but if anyone else got an idea just feel free to let me know ill be using the rest of my day to work on this thing

backinblue92

iTrader: (1)

Well, u can throw out alot of stuff cuz it's a multiple miss. Vs a concentrated cylinder. Ur injectors are prolly fine at least. Are there any DTCs?

When u checked timing, the cam gears are not supposed to point "up up". They'll be at the angle of the head top casting, the hash marks should line up at the 3 and 9 positions. Just a thought.

I've been down the road of misfires, and I can tell u absolutely that u don't get multiple misses as a standalone. The ecu isn't picking up something or ur missing a dtc.

I would do some simple stuff, like test the voltage of ur map sensor (5.0v constant, 12v constant, 2.9v decreasing with vacuum) and attach a hose to your brake booster and check intake manifold vacuum (in inches of mercury, aka inHG). Your tps as well, that could cause a rich condition (.5 plate closed, 4.5 WOT iirc). Um. There's a bunch more ways u can take this. Ignition is a safe bet too, test coil pack. That can cause multiple misses. Compression and/or leakdown may not give u any info, but u could find it is important to know the numbers later. Like in the case of your egr. If that was somehow creating multiple misses, then you'd be getting the clean ports CEL. But you're not. Your egr valve connects all 4 ports directly, but again, if the valve diaphragm wasn't working, you'd see a CEL or at the least a DTC. That's a 5 start CEL, as in, it takes 5 starts for it to throw a code. At least for my obd2.

Anyways. Do what I suggested, or not. It's just my experience talking here. It's your car. However... operating and mechanical conditions change. I can promise u that if u don't start writing it down and ruling things out, you're gonna chase this forever.

2LudeToBeRude

thank you so much i am gonna get a voltmeter on payday and check all the stuff out.
i didn't have any diagnostic trouble codes at all, just the codes that i posted earlier is all but, what is weird is that when i did the timing the little - mark on both sides of the cams lined up to the head but the + mark on the flywheel seemed off a bit, maybe i am off on my cams by a few teeth at most is this something that could cause a issues such as the growl noise i am hearing ?

backinblue92

iTrader: (1)

Voltmeter is the best 20 bucks I've spent since wire strippers. These preludes get quite some use out of em.

I didn't quite understand everything up there but if ur tdc mark on the flywheel- which is a cross or hash mark- doesn't line up with the cams it's not right but if it's literally off by more than a tooth, you would feel it when driving. It won't be smooth. That said, idk if u got confused or didn't know cams turn at double the rate of the flywheel and therefore up is also down, and good.

What you want, is to align the cam gears 3 o'clock hash on intake to 9 o'clock hash on exhaust gears. And then check the outer hashes align with the head too. UP only really means the general direction. If both ur cams are exactly the same number of teeth off, that'd be weird to boot. That only really happens when a car gets in an accident.

Flywheel hash lines up when cam gear hashes are aligned straight with the head, and u know it's running true. Ps- the flywheel hash can look different depending on angle. Try to keep ur head right above the radiator fans when ur checking it.

2LudeToBeRude

alright ill have to double check that timing again im just annoyed because i got the little hash or dash marks on my cams to go even across from each other and the cams saying up and everything lined up. it just seems its off so Thursday when i get paid im gonna go get me a voltmeter and just go ham i wanna get this thing running and sell my civic lol if i can i will take some photos too so you can see what im looking at and maybe a few videos will help

backinblue92

iTrader: (1)

Sure.

I was gonna add something last night about the timing, it's that not to get convinced it's something it's not. If u already checked it, then move on to the next thing. I see people convincing themselves there is an issue when there isnt, if only because they want to believe it's a time efficient, cheap, or free fix.

Rather than more time and money. If ya don't want the headache..take it to a shop. Good smog guys can track this kinda stuff down very well.

2LudeToBeRude

well jrcivic was right.. i went and got my car inspected yesterday. it indeed was rod knock they dropped my pan and nothing was in it and they said they didnt even see anything wrong till they removed my piston from the crank and the bearings just disintegrated in their hand. well now im stuck with a nice looking car and a crap engine.

my buddy also offered his d16z6 from his last civic to put in my car because he felt bad for me but would it be easy to put it in my prelude?. i have also thought of maybe a junkyard motor but i don't really have the money to blow on one if it was crap. right now im just thinking of either my buddies d16z6, selling the car or junkyard motor.

v4lu3s

d16z6 is a waste of time, too small, too weak, too much work.
i would look for an h23a vtec longblock, i have seen them as low as $800 from importers...

2LudeToBeRude

the long block includes the trans,axles and wiring harness right ? if i were to go that route how much would you think it would be ( just a random number) to put that new engine in with a shop doing it. i dont have the right tools to do much work other than unscrew a few things here and there

backinblue92

iTrader: (1)

Yeah forget about the d series. That's like 1.6, 1.8 liters and won't swap direct.

Long block is with trans, and harness usually. It's sometimes cut. Ur gonna have to ask hmotors about that. I didn't need one for my h22a swap. Just rewired my existing h23.

Direct swaps:
F22a
H23a
H22a
(F22b)
(H23a vtec) *slightly involved
These swaps are in the sub $1000 range. Cheapest is f22a, at 500. If u do it yourself. It may be cheaper to buy the tools than pay a shop. Pretty sure u can do the entire swap with nothing but a 32, 19,17,14,12,10mm sockets and some extensions and such. Wouldn't even absolutely need a torque wrench, tho autozone will rent u one free of charge. Prolly $100 in tools to be generous. Rent engine hoist. $50.

Shops charge at least 8 hours labor. U can do it yourself in 3 days as a first timer. I believe that. I can link u to the shop manual I used to learn everything when I swapped as well as anything else. Step by step.

Northernlightz

Hahaha d series wouldn't move a prelude. Replace engine and keep it rolling. There aren't many of these cars left. Gotta preserve them.