pentaq

I'll be giving the chance for those bolts from F22parts.com.

PirateMcFred

The F23 rods have a bronze bushing in the end. I don't remember how thick it is but you should be able to hone the LE of the rod out to 23mm without affecting the strength of the OE rod.

Depending on price I might be interested but I'd want a test from ARP as a guarantee that they are stronger than the OE fasteners. I'd be willing to buy the OE fasteners for their test.

PM FLATBUSH PROJECTS as he asked me about ARP rod bolts for the F23 also.

-P

NABeastRR

yeah like pirate said i would like some but i want proof there stonger also. goodluck, keep me up to date.

0Mike95lude

Any update on your project?

gstrudler

Perfect timing, I actually just picked up the block from the post office today. The cylinders look like they're in pretty nice shape, which is good.

I should be ordering the rod bushings this week if Summit can get ahold of them (Manley). In the meantime I'll probably do some basic measurements and then get the block, crank, and rods to the machine shop to be Magnafluxed. Once the rods are worked with new bushings, I'll put it all together to make sure everything is fitting like it should before I go any further. I just finished reading "Engine Blueprinting" by Voegelin (CarTech publishing), which had a ton of great info.

Waiting on ARP to get a detailed quote together and estimate on manufacturing time. I'm also looking into SPS bolts if they have something available.

At this point I think I'm going to pursue getting the pistons lightened (depending on price) since there is some chance the valve reliefs might need to be machined anyway. I'm going to cryo the rods, and I think I might cryo the crank as well, since I have heard a few stories of these cranks breaking.

I also need to get a cc'ing kit soon to get final numbers on the chamber volume and the piston dome; I've seen several figures on both specs, so I need to get them finalized for myself. Knowing how much of a "wedge" the h22 head is, I might look at a little welding work on the chambers to up the compression if I need (although the extra stroke might give me enough).

The next thing is going to be ordering some tools, which should include a dial bore gauge, cc'ing kit, outside and inside micrometers, and an engine stand.

I've got a few things I need to do as well so that I can sell off some parts and get a little more cash for the rest of the stuff I need. I have a Greddy electronic oil pressure gauge that needs to be fixed and sold; I'm attempting an RSX gauge cluster mod which will free up my indiglo one; I need to install my eManage Ultimate (and wideband AFR) so I can replace the injectors and sell the stockers; after I get the motor mocked up and chambers/pistons cc'd, I can determine which set of pistons I will use and get rid of the other set; etc. I also have an MSD Digital 6+ with a grounding issue I'm trying to fix, and a Clifford Intelliguard 850 that needs to be installed.

I also just got four 2-1 merge collectors that go from double 2" to a 2.5" collector. I'll have 3 of them in the for sale thread soon since I only need one. The welding on them is very nice.

Long update, but I'm excited that things are getting closer. Been doing a fair bit of research in the meantime and trying to build this thing the best I can. Wish I had the money to build the head right now too, but it will have to wait. I'm curious to see what it'll put out on stock cams.

gstrudler

So just had another thought about my wrist pin sizing difference. Would it be too risky to try and bush the pistons? I'm wondering what would happen if I bought some 22mm bushings and had them interference fit into the pistons (heat & press fit). Then I could get some lighter wrist pins and wouldn't be taking away from the integrity of the rods. Is this just a totally stupid idea or is it feasible?

JDM H2B EK

nice build man im in for numbers

PirateMcFred

I think you're over thinking it. Either there's enough bushing material to be honed out to 23mm (floating pin application) or there isn't and you can press the 23mm pin into a properly sized F23 rod without the bushing (press fit style with retaining circlips just in case).

gstrudler

I'm sure I can put new bushings in the rods for a 23mm floating pin, but just got to thinking that since I'm trying to keep the weight down and keep rod integrity to a max, I could look at running a 22mm pin instead. It's more of a fleeting thought since I can't imagine too many people have tried jamming a bushing into a piston, and I don't really want to be the first to try that one out (although in theory it should hold ok). With a 22mm pin, I could potentially be saving 20g or so per piston/rod set, which would be a big plus, and I don't really need the extra strength of the 23mm pin. I might throw the idea out to a couple shops and see if they laugh or not.

PirateMcFred

Bore/hone the rod to 23mm press fit and use the 23mm pin. The rod bore is 24mm. There's enough material to retain the bushing. If it's not a true solid bronze bushing make it a 23mm interference fit on the rod LE and use the piston c-clips as extra insurance to help retain the pin.

http://i49.tinypic.com/11iekwz.jpg

gstrudler

Ordered new bushings last week to keep it floating; I think there's enough material to bore out the rod a little to fit the new bushing, but I'll find out next week when the bushings show up.

Just picked up an engine stand and ordered a set of micrometers. Next is a dial bore gauge (still trying to figure out what sizes I need, I'm looking probably at a 1.4"-2.5" and a 2"-6", although I just found one that does 1.4"-6" which looks promising), a cc'ing kit and a degree wheel.

I doubt I'll have it up, running, and broken-in in time, but there's a dyno day close to me on Feb 20th that I'm shooting for...

tqhunter

Glad to see this is coming along.

If you remember, let me know when ARP gets some more info on the bolts.

My sleeved block is at the machine shop getting some repairs. A few bolts got bent in shipping.

pentaq

F22parts.com doesn't know what they sell. They sent regular bolts and nuts like in H22 rods. Obviously they don't fit at all.

BTW can any mod extract these rod bolts posts off to the new topic, please? It's very informative.

gstrudler

Sorry to hear that. I tried contacting ARP a couple weeks ago to get a status update and haven't heard back. I'll try them again at the end of the week.

Rods are still at the machine shop getting the bushings cut to size and pressed in. Progress has been slow; unexpected expenses have stalled the project a bit, but I'm waiting on a few checks to come in from jobs I've worked. Crazy to think it's been almost a year already.

gstrudler

Small update, nothing super exciting... finally got a hold of the shop a few weeks ago after I hadn't heard anything (apparently they called but never left a message). They couldn't do the work b/c they don't have the right tools, so I took it to a shop they recommended. The machinist there wanted the pins I would be using to be able to test fit them after install. I decided to give one more shot at finding pins, and got lucky! CP makes a whole ton of wrist pins; I ordered ones that should be about 86g a piece, which is way better than the 110g of the stockers. They are on order, so once they come in I can finally get the rods done.

Also making headway finally on the ARP rod bolts. For those that haven't seen it yet:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-prelude-4/group-buy-arp-rod-bolts-f23-k20a3-k24-j35-2760101/

I've got ACL bearings ready to go once the rod bolts come in. I also think I found a shop to lighten the pistons as well, so I'm feeling pretty good about how the bottom end is coming together.

In the mean time I picked up a welder yesterday and will be getting the rest of the accessories so I can start mig welding, and then I can fab up my exhaust. I have a set of primaries I will be using, but then I'll be building everything from the secondaries all the way back to the muffler. 2.5" collector on the header, transitioned to 3" for the cat and I'm thinking 3" mandrel bent all the way back. I'm not positive on this yet as most of the comparisons I've seen have been with crush bent. I will also be building a cold air box to adapt to my SRI to get some cooler air into the engine. Part of the reason for the exhaust fab is so I can install my wideband and then I can start tuning and making sure everything works on that end.

Got a few electronic projects as well that I'll be working on as I get time. Still need to install the eManage Ultimate and gauges (AFR, EGT, and oil pressure), plus I'm still working on an RSX gauge conversion (trying to pick up the multiplex unit, dash wire harness and ECU out of an RSX parts car), and eventually my old alarm system.

Trying to figure out which ATI damper to go with as well, and I may end up having to get rid of my p/s if I use one of the race series dampers. If I go that direction, I will be looking into some kind of hydro-electric p/s system since I don't want to get rid of mine altogether.

jlude90

I thought ATI only offered one damper for the H motors. Why do you want/need the ATI? I used an S2K pulley on mine and haven't had an issue, and they're smaller, lighter and cheaper, I got mine for $75.

The S2Ks came with electronic power steering pumps, and can be made to work. Also the...trooper or some random vehicle had an electric pump but was heavier and didn't work as well as the S2 unit.

Also check out www.mandrelbends.com they're also a dealer on here.

gstrudler

They've actually got three different versions, one "street" version and two "race" versions, all three are different weights. The main reason is I'm pulling the b/s and want to lessen the vibrations and harmonics as much as possible, as I know that's what will kill oil pumps. Also, because I'm using different bottom end parts with a longer stroke and different weights from stock, the bottom end assembly is no longer what the stock damper was designed for and I'm not sure how effective it will be. Going with an aftermarket damper like ATI or Fluidampr should help dampen over a broader rpm range.

I forgot that the s2k had electric p/s too; I believe the RSX also did. I'll look for write-ups on how hard those might be to adapt. Otherwise I was thinking about using a DC voltage controller and a generic pump to get it working. I haven't looked at the whole system yet to figure out what all is involved.

Thanks for the tip on mandrelbends, I'll definitely check them out.

Forgot to mention too, I just ordered a cc'ing kit so I can measure the head chamber volume and then the piston profiles so I can calculate out my compression ratio for sure as soon as the rods are done.

jlude90

GST, I think you're over thinking the crank pulley, I'm on a 95mm crank and have no issues whatsoever with the stock damper, maybe if you're spinning it to 10K and it isn't very well balanced then I would worry, but honestly I think the money would be better spent elsewhere in the car, just IMO.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-prelude-4/f20-s2000-crank-pulley-2555171/

The only problem I encountered was the offset on the pulley. But I just left it stock and moved the alternator in, like I said. The bolt and woodruff key lined up perfectly.

I don't have timing covers on ATM, so I can take a picture if you'd like.

/OT PM or post in my thread for anything else please. Unless the OP would like to bring this discussion here.

gstrudler

I don't mind, whichever will be easier for people to find the information.

I'm not as concerned about the weight issue, I'm mainly thinking about harmonic problems since this is a DD. Truth be told, I doubt it will be an issue with the stock damper, especially since a lot of people have been running the b/s eliminator kit so far without any problems, but it's just a security thing. Fortunately it can be one of the last things I buy since you're not supposed to get the crank balanced with dampers like those anyway (Fluidampr and ATI both tell you not to have the damper installed during balancing). So, if funds allow, I will get it, but if I'm in a pinch I can run the stock damper and pick one up later.

jlude90

Interesting you mention oil, I just had a phone conversation with the guy at PurePower filtration, and he said that of all the big name oils and whatnot, the best oil for most cars on the road, no matter performance level is Shell Rotella-T.

FWIW he's a chemical engineer specializing in engine oil. I thought that was nice to mix it up. I've been using that oil for a long time too, FWIW.

kingofbattle909

iTrader: (6)

what happend to this build???

gstrudler

Was actually going to update in a couple weeks when I got a little further, but I can take a minute now... exhaust parts all arrived this week (except the muffler which is coming next week b/c it was on back-order). Have to get a flange made to go from the primaries section of the header I have to the secondaries I'm making. Then just need to get a tank of trimix and a couple miscellaneous items and I'll start fabbing up the exhaust. Once that's done I can install my wideband and EGT's and the eManage Ultimate and start playing around with tuning on the current engine to make sure everything is playing nice and responding how it's supposed to (as well as getting the other injectors installed).

Yesterday I was able to finally pick up the rods from the machine shop; they now have 23mm bushings at the PE to work with the 23mm wrist pins used in the f20c/f22c pistons (picked up a set of lightweight CP pins since I needed new pins anyway). This means I can finally install the pistons on the rods and throw them in the block to do some cc'ing with them and the head and figure out which set I'm going to go with for compression. Then I can test p2v to see if the reliefs need to be cut, and then they are going out to get lightened and fly-cut if needed. Enough for now, I'll hopefully post some pix once I actually get some work done on it in a couple weeks.

#1rudebwoy

im not hating but how can you use an f23 crank when it's a big difference in the mains ?

gstrudler

The '98+ h22's have 55mm mains just like the f23, so it drops right in.

#1rudebwoy

oh ok then no wonder..lol i'll bet that would be a hell of a stroker motor