full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars
09-10-2005, 10:05 PM
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full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars
A lot of people have asked us to come out with a traction bar/radius arm setup for the 5th gen prelude. For anyone not familiar, this is a pic of a crx traction bar:
After working on one pretty heavily for the past week, I have come to a few conclusions regarding the BB6 front susepsnion. Long story short, we feel that the prelude suspension is designed such that any fabricated suspension components with a heim and adjustable caster would be very much unsafe in this application.
The only design which would be functional and strong is a crossmember (no radius rods) which provides additional clearance and ridgidity over stock. In our opinion, there is no safe way to stabilize the lower control arms OR adjust caster. Considering the fact that a full 3" downpipe can clear the stock crossmember, we feel the price of such a crossmember ($400) is difficult to justify.
What i am asking you guys is if anyone (all motor guys who want to run a 4-1 particularly) thinks they would actually be interested in such a piece, knowing caster will not be adjustable, and there will not be heim-jointed radius rods in the system.
If there is any interest at all, we will prototype the crossmember while this car is here. If there is no interest, we will not pursue this project any further.
any questions or if anyone wants to see pics, ill be happy to post. thanks for reading
After working on one pretty heavily for the past week, I have come to a few conclusions regarding the BB6 front susepsnion. Long story short, we feel that the prelude suspension is designed such that any fabricated suspension components with a heim and adjustable caster would be very much unsafe in this application.
The only design which would be functional and strong is a crossmember (no radius rods) which provides additional clearance and ridgidity over stock. In our opinion, there is no safe way to stabilize the lower control arms OR adjust caster. Considering the fact that a full 3" downpipe can clear the stock crossmember, we feel the price of such a crossmember ($400) is difficult to justify.
What i am asking you guys is if anyone (all motor guys who want to run a 4-1 particularly) thinks they would actually be interested in such a piece, knowing caster will not be adjustable, and there will not be heim-jointed radius rods in the system.
If there is any interest at all, we will prototype the crossmember while this car is here. If there is no interest, we will not pursue this project any further.
any questions or if anyone wants to see pics, ill be happy to post. thanks for reading
09-11-2005, 09:05 AM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (Hawkze_2.3)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hawkze_2.3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why would it be unsafe? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Bump for an answer.
Bump for an answer.
09-11-2005, 11:55 AM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (Full-Race Geoff)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">After working on one pretty heavily for the past week, I have come to a few conclusions regarding the BB6 front susepsnion. Long story short, we feel that the prelude suspension is designed such that any fabricated suspension components with a heim and adjustable caster would be very much unsafe in this application.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't see why.....care to share?
IIRC, Rick was talking about another company starting to build traction bars for our cars; I'd like to see their prices and justification, as the demand must be there.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't see why.....care to share?
IIRC, Rick was talking about another company starting to build traction bars for our cars; I'd like to see their prices and justification, as the demand must be there.
09-11-2005, 11:58 AM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (LudeyKrus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Considering the fact that a full 3" downpipe can clear the stock crossmember, </TD></TR></TABLE>
i had to cut a good chunk off of my crossmember to be able to fit my 3" dp. check out my sig.
but yeah, please come out with this
09-11-2005, 02:55 PM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (john d)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by john d »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i had to cut a good chunk off of my crossmember to be able to fit my 3" dp. check out my sig.
but yeah, please come out with this </TD></TR></TABLE>
X2
i had to cut a good chunk off of my crossmember to be able to fit my 3" dp. check out my sig.
but yeah, please come out with this
</TD></TR></TABLE>X2
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09-11-2005, 07:34 PM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (Hawkze_2.3)
ill take some pics tomorrow/throughout the week of the prelude here. more info tomorrow i gotta finish some work up
09-11-2005, 07:35 PM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (john d)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by john d »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had to cut a good chunk off of my crossmember to be able to fit my 3" dp. check out my sig.</TD></TR></TABLE>
do you have a pic? Our H series 3" downpipe fits with plenty of clearance
do you have a pic? Our H series 3" downpipe fits with plenty of clearance
09-11-2005, 09:00 PM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (Full-Race Geoff)
I know someone with a 5th gen that fit a 3" downpipe without cutting the crossmember.
09-12-2005, 06:44 AM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (Full-Race Geoff)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
do you have a pic? Our H series 3" downpipe fits with plenty of clearance</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah ill get a pic up. im running a lovefab sst EL manifold and a precision pt61.
do you have a pic? Our H series 3" downpipe fits with plenty of clearance</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah ill get a pic up. im running a lovefab sst EL manifold and a precision pt61.
09-12-2005, 06:57 AM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (Tomakit)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tomakit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Doesn't the 5th gen have radius arms, stock?</TD></TR></TABLE>
4th and 5th do, but they use large rubber bushings which flex. The SH also has ball joints where the radius rod mounts to the LCA, whereas the others just have a couple bolts.
4th and 5th do, but they use large rubber bushings which flex. The SH also has ball joints where the radius rod mounts to the LCA, whereas the others just have a couple bolts.
09-12-2005, 07:24 AM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (Hawkze_2.3)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hawkze_2.3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
4th and 5th do, but they use large rubber bushings which flex. The SH also has ball joints where the radius rod mounts to the LCA, whereas the others just have a couple bolts.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There are a few places that sell spherical bearing kits to replace the stock rubber bushings of the radius rods. This is all you need. No point in making an entirely new radius rod system for a car that comes with one. The stock one works great with the spherical bushings installed. This is what I did on my race car.
I used a custom kit that replaces the stock bubber bushings. I am considering haveing a batch of 10 or 20 made to sell. should be around the $100 range. I will make a new post in a few months when they are ready
4th and 5th do, but they use large rubber bushings which flex. The SH also has ball joints where the radius rod mounts to the LCA, whereas the others just have a couple bolts.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There are a few places that sell spherical bearing kits to replace the stock rubber bushings of the radius rods. This is all you need. No point in making an entirely new radius rod system for a car that comes with one. The stock one works great with the spherical bushings installed. This is what I did on my race car.
I used a custom kit that replaces the stock bubber bushings. I am considering haveing a batch of 10 or 20 made to sell. should be around the $100 range. I will make a new post in a few months when they are ready
09-12-2005, 01:59 PM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (577HondaPrelude)
I know, I have OPM radius rod bushings in my Prelude -- someone should make a replacement for the front crossmember only. Save lots of weight and make room for the guys who want huge turbos.
09-12-2005, 04:34 PM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (Hawkze_2.3)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hawkze_2.3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
4th and 5th do, but they use large rubber bushings which flex. The SH also has ball joints where the radius rod mounts to the LCA, whereas the others just have a couple bolts.</TD></TR></TABLE>
do you have a picture of a basemodel steering knuckle/upright/radius rod attachment? I would be interested in seeing an under car picture of it like this:
4th and 5th do, but they use large rubber bushings which flex. The SH also has ball joints where the radius rod mounts to the LCA, whereas the others just have a couple bolts.</TD></TR></TABLE>
do you have a picture of a basemodel steering knuckle/upright/radius rod attachment? I would be interested in seeing an under car picture of it like this:
09-12-2005, 04:37 PM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (bdb)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bdb »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">make room for the guys who want huge turbos.</TD></TR></TABLE>
We can fit a GT40R, good to 850 whp in our new prelude/accord turbo kit, with stock crossmember. I think that counts as a huge turbo
We can fit a GT40R, good to 850 whp in our new prelude/accord turbo kit, with stock crossmember. I think that counts as a huge turbo
09-12-2005, 04:39 PM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (577HondaPrelude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 577HondaPrelude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There are a few places that sell spherical bearing kits to replace the stock rubber bushings of the radius rods. This is all you need. No point in making an entirely new radius rod system for a car that comes with one. The stock one works great with the spherical bushings installed. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree, this is an EXCELLENT option.
However, its difficult to know what someone needs. If its clearance/extra space they need, your proposed solution will not provide that.
There are a few places that sell spherical bearing kits to replace the stock rubber bushings of the radius rods. This is all you need. No point in making an entirely new radius rod system for a car that comes with one. The stock one works great with the spherical bushings installed. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree, this is an EXCELLENT option.
However, its difficult to know what someone needs. If its clearance/extra space they need, your proposed solution will not provide that.
09-12-2005, 05:05 PM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (Full-Race Geoff)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
do you have a picture of a basemodel steering knuckle/upright/radius rod attachment? I would be interested in seeing an under car picture of it like this:
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's an SH..no wonder you're having problems...the base radius rods are straight (relatively) and mount on the back of the front knuckle..no ball joint. same for 4th gen
Biggest question I would have is what do you do about the front engine mount...
do you have a picture of a basemodel steering knuckle/upright/radius rod attachment? I would be interested in seeing an under car picture of it like this:
</TD></TR></TABLE>That's an SH..no wonder you're having problems...the base radius rods are straight (relatively) and mount on the back of the front knuckle..no ball joint. same for 4th gen
Biggest question I would have is what do you do about the front engine mount...
09-12-2005, 06:28 PM
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Re: full race questions development on 5th gen prelude traction bars (satan_srv)
front mount is taken care of. we will be releasing one shortly. can you get me a picture of the base suspension?
09-12-2005, 10:07 PM
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Geoff, just to make sure, your assesment was based only on the Type-SH suspension?
The base model and SH front suspensions are drastically different.
On a SH to change caster, Honda has 3 or 4 "colors" of radius rod that you switch out to acheive the desired caster. The different ones are shaped differently in additon to having different lengths.
The radius rods are attached with bolts, not balljoints, and are much straighter on a base model.
I don't have a pic, but the exploded parts diagrams on the slhondaparts.com site are pretty good to see the difference.
The base model and SH front suspensions are drastically different.
On a SH to change caster, Honda has 3 or 4 "colors" of radius rod that you switch out to acheive the desired caster. The different ones are shaped differently in additon to having different lengths.
The radius rods are attached with bolts, not balljoints, and are much straighter on a base model.
I don't have a pic, but the exploded parts diagrams on the slhondaparts.com site are pretty good to see the difference.
