PirateMcFred

^^^ 1. you do not have to plug an oil drains just a judicious application of honda bond in one area will work well.
2. F23 HG works fine for me as well as others.
3. stock timing belt as in the H23 timing belt.
4. No need for a knock sensor unless you are running an ECU that has one.

Good luck and post dyno numbers with a link to this thread.
Pirate

bleewdragon

ill definatley get sum numbers up once i get everything running! I just got my forged pistons in 86mm from Arias. they say that with the stock accord head the compression ratio is 8.2:1.

im sure thats going to change with the h-series head any idea of what my CR would be with a h23a1 head?
also i am looking into getting sum forged rods even though my stock rods are handle boost very well. if i change rods will i have to change my crank as well? there is an earlier post on this thread by rick solis that says the f22 and h23 are the same lenth and thickness wise. should i go for the h22 rods with the slightly longer stroke?


Modified by bleewdragon at 5:56 PM 11/7/2004

PirateMcFred

My F23/H23 dyno results.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1052811

165 whp 169 wtq.

Pirate

ACC0RD22

this is a really really tempting idea since i have a f22b1 sitting in my 94 accord ex that im not driving right now. oh god if i could only get my hands on the h22 VTEC head

EDIT: does anyone know the code for the h22 transmission from the 1st gen prelude? any help would be appreciated
EDIT#2, search works again found it thanks

Modified by ACC0RD22 at 5:32 PM 11/14/2004


Modified by ACC0RD22 at 5:44 PM 11/14/2004

drumking15

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My F23/H23 dyno results.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

gotta lova the torque...keep up the good work pirate!

TurboEH2

ok i have a quick question, not sure if it was asked. but this was an idea me and my friend had awhile back but never acted on it.

lets say u get a f23 block and h22 head, would they bolt together to accomplish basically a f23/h22 frank? kinda like the h23/h33 frank.

im just curious cause my friend had both items laying around and now i can kick him about it when i see him. like i said sorry if this was already covered. ur post just reminded me of my childhood days of what if at the junkyard.

fastludeh22

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSturboEH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok i have a quick question, not sure if it was asked. but this was an idea me and my friend had awhile back but never acted on it.

lets say u get a f23 block and h22 head, would they bolt together to accomplish basically a f23/h22 frank? kinda like the h23/h33 frank.

im just curious cause my friend had both items laying around and now i can kick him about it when i see him. like i said sorry if this was already covered. ur post just reminded me of my childhood days of what if at the junkyard.</TD></TR></TABLE>

it wont just bolt on but it will work. i dont think that exact combo has been done yet...tom did f22/h22, and Pirate did f23/h23...i have a extra f23 and h22 so one day ill get to it, im too busy with work and my built h23 vtec right now.

Root79

I was found this link in different topic. Found this swap wery interesting.

I was started to read it from begining and read allmoust all pages.

First impresion was..........WOW.........NO SH#T............AMAIZING.
I'm from Europe and here we have in every junk jard Accords and all F engines from 1.6; 1.8; 2.0; 2.2 non VTEC; 2.2 VTEC and 2.3. Thats great opertunity for everbody to build F/H engine. H22 heads and ECU are problem, but it is only problem of time. I have one H22A2 head in shop. So, that could be chance for somebody.

I know that Accords have different plugs in ECU, anyway can it be used for F22 and H22 swap engine?

Nice job Guy's

accord-type-R

hey i did a f22 block with h23 head and i got everything in but then mine wount start...? everything works everything cranks but it wount start.. any one have a clue y..........? let meeh know asap

jweller

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accord-type-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey i did a f22 block with h23 head and i got everything in but then mine wount start...? everything works everything cranks but it wount start.. any one have a clue y..........? let meeh know asap</TD></TR></TABLE>\

theres at least 100 reasons why a engine won't start, why don't you tell us what you have already tried.

Tugood4you

does the f22 and h23 use the same style t-belt, besides one being longer for dohc? it looks like you guys have been swapping the lower cam gear and wp gear to the prelude ones on both h23 h22 head swaps. I was just wondering if anybody had attempted putting 2 f cam gears on an h head, i would think the diameter of the f and h gears would be the same if the lower gear was the same size. The teeth count many not be correct because i was under the impression the h22 belt was slightly different style. If for some reason the f upper cam gears fit the h22 cams you could use an h23 belt and not have to swap the lower or wp gear, just an idea....

drumking15

the idea between switch the wp and lower gear is so the wp spins equally as fast...make it a lower f22 teeth count will theoritcally slow it down even more

also tom just took the lude out for a ride... to quote him

"it rips tearin'm loose"
"**** i hit 60 and was like dam time to slow down"

all considering this car will be in hibernation considering its now snowing!!!

ahhh dam NE

Tugood4you

i understand that the camshafts have to line up correctly with the crank and must spin exactly one rotation for every half of a crank rotation. If you used mixed parts of both an f22 and h22, the ratio would not be correct, the belt wouldn't fit right, but either use all h parts, or my idea was to use f or h23 cam gears so the lower gears would not have to be changed. The h22 uper cam gears have 42 teeth, while the h23 are the same size but use 40 teeth, if the f22 uses the same style belt as the h23 (with regards to how many teeth on the gear) Then i think you could place h23 cam gears on an h22 head and leave the lower gears alone with an h23 belt. I think it might even be possible to use 2 f22 gears on an h head also, but either way, i see it as a good opportunity to use some adjustable cam gears!

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tugood4you &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i understand that the camshafts have to line up correctly with the crank and must spin exactly one rotation for every half of a crank rotation. If you used mixed parts of both an f22 and h22, the ratio would not be correct, the belt wouldn't fit right, but either use all h parts, or my idea was to use f or h23 cam gears so the lower gears would not have to be changed. The h22 uper cam gears have 42 teeth, while the h23 are the same size but use 40 teeth, if the f22 uses the same style belt as the h23 (with regards to how many teeth on the gear) Then i think you could place h23 cam gears on an h22 head and leave the lower gears alone with an h23 belt. I think it might even be possible to use 2 f22 gears on an h head also, but either way, i see it as a good opportunity to use some adjustable cam gears!</TD></TR></TABLE>

i took this into consideration, but didn't feel like doing the math out to find out if the 2 teeth difference was going to cause my motor to self destruct,

i chose the just use a pully puller and switch the water pump gear ,

if you want to try and use all F parts and h23 gears then go fore it, but i just found it easier the other way around, but there is no garentee that if you use the F water pump and the h23 gears if the tentioner could take up all the extra slack,

that is one other reason that i used the h22 waterpump gear because the f block has a slightly shorter deck height, and the h22 gear takes up alot of slack in the timing belt, the tentioner can only go so far..

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">, no drilled rivets, Honda bonded the dead oil passage and have no problems with it.
Pirate</TD></TR></TABLE>

you may have not needed to drill or dremel the copper riviets but it is very important to atleast check..
also it is up to the person on wether to port match the collant holes by using a stock h22 or h23 head gasket as a templete depending on your swap, but i did, i noted many others have not,

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSturboEH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok i have a quick question, not sure if it was asked. but this was an idea me and my friend had awhile back but never acted on it.

lets say u get a f23 block and h22 head, would they bolt together to accomplish basically a f23/h22 frank? kinda like the h23/h33 frank..</TD></TR></TABLE>

sam is working on the f23 h22 hybrid and boosting it, so i am anxiously awaiting his project to be finished.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Root79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was found this link in different topic. Found this swap wery interesting.

I was started to read it from begining and read allmoust all pages.

First impresion was..........WOW.........NO SH#T............AMAIZING.
I'm from Europe and here we have in every junk jard Accords and all F engines from 1.6; 1.8; 2.0; 2.2 non VTEC; 2.2 VTEC and 2.3. Thats great opertunity for everbody to build F/H engine. H22 heads and ECU are problem, but it is only problem of time. I have one H22A2 head in shop. So, that could be chance for somebody.

I know that Accords have different plugs in ECU, anyway can it be used for F22 and H22 swap engine?

Nice job Guy's </TD></TR></TABLE>

oh man would i kill for one of those 88mm crank and rods out of a f 1.8 or 2.0 mmmmmmmmm drewl... i wish i lived there..

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accord-type-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey i did a f22 block with h23 head and i got everything in but then mine wount start...? everything works everything cranks but it wount start.. any one have a clue y..........? let meeh know asap</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah your going to have to be more specific..


i would also like to thank everyone for keeping this thread alive while i was away, and giving knowledgable and direct answers and for keeping the thread on track.. you guys that helped along the way know who you are,,

and as for my boosted h22/f22 i drove it today for the first time, I LOVED IT.. i was going easy on it , but i hit full boost in 2nd gear and both tires broke loose. i hopefully will get it fine tuned, i was watching the a/f and seems to be in the safe region, but not exactlt where i want it at the moment,

sam and fred, keep up the good work, also i would like to thank greyout for posting his project up, i would love to know the difference in teeth between the b18c5 timing belt and the h23

tylerdurden1981

Hmmm Now i have a interesting thought here. I have read probyl 95% of this thread over the past half a year or so. And i have built a f22 h23 motor before. But what about using a h23 or h22 block and puting a single over head vtec head from a accord on it Now before you laugh It would raise teh compression up. You get a bigger bore, you swap in some pistons from a h22 you can really crank up the compression. The sohc has alot less rotating mass and the f22 vtec comes with roller rockers Seems that you would have to replace the water pump sprocket and the crank sprocket adn use a f22 timing chain. No you cant finely tune your intake adn exhaust cams in a sohc motor but you can have them reground for what ever specs you need I dunno i was thinking about trying it for the heck of it. really the only advatage i can see is that you start out with a bigger bore. and you cant bore out a f22 to 87 mm with out sleeves anyways. It wouldnt be cost effective but i am going to try it anyways

tylerdurden1981

Also anyone wanna trade a f22b1 block for any f23 block it has 89,000 mileson it .. its really in perfect shape

tylerdurden1981

Also a other advantage that i could think of would be that the h23 h22 blocks can withstand more rom the nthe f22. and also i do belive that the f22 has a much small combustion chanber then the h23, So i bet with a h23 block and h22 piston and the f22 head it would really bump the compression up

Bird333

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


and as for my boosted h22/f22 i drove it today for the first time, I LOVED IT.. i was going easy on it , but i hit full boost in 2nd gear and both tires broke loose. i hopefully will get it fine tuned, i was watching the a/f and seems to be in the safe region, but not exactlt where i want it at the moment,

sam and fred, keep up the good work, also i would like to thank greyout for posting his project up, i would love to know the difference in teeth between the b18c5 timing belt and the h23 </TD></TR></TABLE>

So you have finally got it boosted. Do you have any plans to take things apart and see if this hybrid is causing any damage? And we want pics of the boosted engine.

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tylerdurden1981 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also anyone wanna trade a f22b1 block for any f23 block it has 89,000 mileson it .. its really in perfect shape</TD></TR></TABLE>

i can get you a f22b1 block, what kind of mileage are you lookinf gor it to be..


the f22 from what i know has a 50.3 cc combution chamber.. but due to the increased bore of the h22/h23 your CR would go up, HOWEVER it would be extrememly important that the piston you chose did not go above the deck height, as if you used a f22 head its combution chamber is 85mm and there for you would have a 2mm of flat overlap around a 87mm bore, kind of an added quench area..

seems like a neat idea, give it a try if you want..

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bird333 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So you have finally got it boosted. Do you have any plans to take things apart and see if this hybrid is causing any damage? And we want pics of the boosted engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

im not going to take it appart until something breaks , or until i will the lotery and can build the motor.

i hesitent to post pictures of my setup , just because im really afraid of getting my stuff stolen, it really a shame, i would love to share my pictures with you all, but people know where i live, and im not saying anyone on the prelude forum ould do anything, but there are theives that browse around these forums, and they don't even have user names.. i guess im just paranoid

i have no job and pretty much all i ahve that represents what i worked for 5 years is my car and the boosted project, maybe ill share some pics thru pm if people want

PirateMcFred

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You may have not needed to drill or dremel the copper riviets but it is very important to atleast check..
Also it is up to the person on wether to port match the collant holes by using a stock h22 or h23 head gasket as a templete depending on your swap, but i did, i noted many others have not.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I did check to see if the rivets would interfere and they were all hanging off the block where they could not get in the way. I did think about portmatching the waterjacket coolant passages but they were not that much different than the H23 HG I compared it to. I would DEFINATELY port the HG if I were doing the H22 headswap since the ports do't line up all that well.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> and as for my boosted h22/f22 i drove it today for the first time, I LOVED IT.. I was going easy on it , but i hit full boost in 2nd gear and both tires broke loose. i hopefully will get it fine tuned, i was watching the a/f and seems to be in the safe region, but not exactly where i want it at the moment,
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds sweet. I hope you can find the time and money to dynotune. Whenever you do intend to dyno I got $5 for ya. Once you get numbers you should post a new thread and lik it here. Pictures always seem to grab people's attention more than a comment. You could take pics of the engine bay since it would be pretty nondescript and won't make it much more likely to be targeted by thieves.

Pirate

PirateMcFred

Tyler, I have seen an F23A1 VTEC Head on an H23 shortblock that was in an Accord that was for sale on EBay. I guess he blew the other botton end. You would get the same displacement and a slightly higher compression but then you have the problem of F23A cama nd header aftermarket support. You could get VTEC and a custom cam that might be able to compete but The F23A head is not exactly a good choice for performance. The ports are pretty small even though the F23A valves are the same diameter as the H23. But it has been done.

You could get a better RS ratio and compression with an H22 bottom end. If you want to go that way I think it would be interesting but there will aways people will all be negitive about the general concept. DOHC=&gt;SOHC It might be good for boost. *shrug*

Pirate

Sam1am26

I guess I could understand using it if you had say an f22 and than you bought an h23 block for the extra displacement and the raised compression... But still, if you were going to go through the trouble of doing that wouldn't you just get an entire h23... I think the dohc would make more power than the sohc despite the slight raise in compression...

Bird333

Just a suggestion. In your first post put how many miles you have been running on boost so people can see how long it has been going with 9-10 psi of boost.