Engine Trouble
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Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 112
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From: Oakland, CA, USA
Engine Trouble
Hey I’m having some engine problems with my prelude, and I was wondering if anyone had experienced similar symptoms. Or had any ideas.
So about a week and a half ago I noticed that the tachometers were bouncing around, bit it did not feel like the actual RPM was changing. At first the problem was slight and only intermittent, every 5-10 min I would notice both needles fluctuating by ~200-1000 RPM. But no other trouble to speak of.
Talked to the previous owner and he figured that there might be a grounding issue with the Autometer tach. So I figured no big deal, as I said the actual RPM was not fluctuating, just the tach, so I would look at it over the weekend. The range that the tach was fluctuating started to get worse however, intermittently it would start bouncing around back and forth over a 3-4K range -- almost the whole rev range (This is how I’m sure that the actual RPM is not fluctuating, I know I can tell the difference in the sound of the engine at 1K and 5K).
Still thinking that it’s just a ground issue with the Autometer tach I kept on driving for another day or two. Then while accelerating on the freeway, going maybe 80MPH, I felt the engine choke a bit, like a misfire. So I started taking it easy, got to work fine, and decided I would just take it easy until the weekend when I could get in and take a look.
So I took the car out for lunch and the tach is bouncing a lot, it’s almost constantly fluctuating whenever I’m accelerating or decelerating, but not when the car is idle. One the way back from lunch I feel more hesitation, about two blocks from work it starts getting much worse... To the point where the car is getting hard to drive. Power is down and it’s just not happy.
Take off the distributor cap and check for carbon buildup or any chunks of junk that might have come loose, nothing, looks good and clean. The boss spots me with my head under the hood, out in the parking lot at 3 in the afternoon and gives me a dirty look… Decision time: My mechanic is about 3 miles away, home is about 150… I limp over to the mechanic – the longer I drive the worse the engine gets. But I make it to the mechanic.
He takes a look, scolds me for the alternator under-drive pulley. Shows me it’s only putting out 10-11.5v at idle, and 12.5 at around 3K… So he swaps in a stock pulley, at my request replaces the plugs with NGK platinum’s, and the wires with NGK as well. Puts in the new distributor cap and rotor which I had picked up the stealership earlier. The only code present in the system at this point was for the electrical load detector, which didn’t come back after the alternator pulley was put back to stock.
So when I picked the car up a few days later he said he had taken it for a test drive, hit VTEC… Said there was still some minor fluctuation in the tachs, that it might be the igniter, and I should watch it for a few days and see what happened, but that it was running solidly.
I got in warmed it up, drove off, after about a mile the tach fluctuation got bad again, then minor intermittent hesitation started. I’m about 3 miles away now, so I head towards a safe area, and park it overnight. After checking the part numbers via majestichonda.com, I decide to pull the whole distributor off my SI and swap it in the morning.
After getting it swapped in I try to crank the car once, and it doesn’t want to go. I give it another try and it fires up, but I can tell that something is still wrong, the tach is bouncing badly and it just sounds slightly off, even at idle. I get out and double check all my connections and plug wires, but when I go to restart it it’s just completely dead, nothing in any key position. So as the car is still 150 miles away from my garage I’ll probably have it towed back to the mechanic on Monday. I definitely can’t drive it home, and I’m hoping that the fix will be cheaper then flatbeding it 150 miles.
So a quick summery:
· Tach fluctuates when accelerating but not at idle.
· A few min/miles after I start driving it feels like the car is hesitating/misfiring but there is no misfire code stored in the ECU.
· 3 or less min after the hesitation starts it gets dramatically worse, feels like a multi cylinder misfire, and the car is nearly undividable.
The guy I got the car from feels that this has got to be an issue with one of the engine ground points being loose, and causing the ECU to freak out. Unfortunately being so far from home I’m limited to what I can do (i.e. no putting the car up on jacks and looking around on a public street.) But I was hoping that someone might have experienced some similar have some ideas.
Best Regards,
Peter M.
So about a week and a half ago I noticed that the tachometers were bouncing around, bit it did not feel like the actual RPM was changing. At first the problem was slight and only intermittent, every 5-10 min I would notice both needles fluctuating by ~200-1000 RPM. But no other trouble to speak of.
Talked to the previous owner and he figured that there might be a grounding issue with the Autometer tach. So I figured no big deal, as I said the actual RPM was not fluctuating, just the tach, so I would look at it over the weekend. The range that the tach was fluctuating started to get worse however, intermittently it would start bouncing around back and forth over a 3-4K range -- almost the whole rev range (This is how I’m sure that the actual RPM is not fluctuating, I know I can tell the difference in the sound of the engine at 1K and 5K).
Still thinking that it’s just a ground issue with the Autometer tach I kept on driving for another day or two. Then while accelerating on the freeway, going maybe 80MPH, I felt the engine choke a bit, like a misfire. So I started taking it easy, got to work fine, and decided I would just take it easy until the weekend when I could get in and take a look.
So I took the car out for lunch and the tach is bouncing a lot, it’s almost constantly fluctuating whenever I’m accelerating or decelerating, but not when the car is idle. One the way back from lunch I feel more hesitation, about two blocks from work it starts getting much worse... To the point where the car is getting hard to drive. Power is down and it’s just not happy.
Take off the distributor cap and check for carbon buildup or any chunks of junk that might have come loose, nothing, looks good and clean. The boss spots me with my head under the hood, out in the parking lot at 3 in the afternoon and gives me a dirty look… Decision time: My mechanic is about 3 miles away, home is about 150… I limp over to the mechanic – the longer I drive the worse the engine gets. But I make it to the mechanic.
He takes a look, scolds me for the alternator under-drive pulley. Shows me it’s only putting out 10-11.5v at idle, and 12.5 at around 3K… So he swaps in a stock pulley, at my request replaces the plugs with NGK platinum’s, and the wires with NGK as well. Puts in the new distributor cap and rotor which I had picked up the stealership earlier. The only code present in the system at this point was for the electrical load detector, which didn’t come back after the alternator pulley was put back to stock.
So when I picked the car up a few days later he said he had taken it for a test drive, hit VTEC… Said there was still some minor fluctuation in the tachs, that it might be the igniter, and I should watch it for a few days and see what happened, but that it was running solidly.
I got in warmed it up, drove off, after about a mile the tach fluctuation got bad again, then minor intermittent hesitation started. I’m about 3 miles away now, so I head towards a safe area, and park it overnight. After checking the part numbers via majestichonda.com, I decide to pull the whole distributor off my SI and swap it in the morning.
After getting it swapped in I try to crank the car once, and it doesn’t want to go. I give it another try and it fires up, but I can tell that something is still wrong, the tach is bouncing badly and it just sounds slightly off, even at idle. I get out and double check all my connections and plug wires, but when I go to restart it it’s just completely dead, nothing in any key position. So as the car is still 150 miles away from my garage I’ll probably have it towed back to the mechanic on Monday. I definitely can’t drive it home, and I’m hoping that the fix will be cheaper then flatbeding it 150 miles.
So a quick summery:
· Tach fluctuates when accelerating but not at idle.
· A few min/miles after I start driving it feels like the car is hesitating/misfiring but there is no misfire code stored in the ECU.
· 3 or less min after the hesitation starts it gets dramatically worse, feels like a multi cylinder misfire, and the car is nearly undividable.
The guy I got the car from feels that this has got to be an issue with one of the engine ground points being loose, and causing the ECU to freak out. Unfortunately being so far from home I’m limited to what I can do (i.e. no putting the car up on jacks and looking around on a public street.) But I was hoping that someone might have experienced some similar have some ideas.
Best Regards,
Peter M.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 14,296
Likes: 1
From: Charleston, SC
Re: Engine Trouble (datac99)
Check the ecu ground on the wire harness that's connected to the thermostat housing. Make sure the 10mm bolt is tight.
I ran into a similar problem on another guys car and the coil ended up going bad as well as the distributor.
I ran into a similar problem on another guys car and the coil ended up going bad as well as the distributor.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 112
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From: Oakland, CA, USA
Re: Engine Trouble (PrecisionH23a)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Check the ecu ground on the wire harness that's connected to the thermostat housing. Make sure the 10mm bolt is tight.
I ran into a similar problem on another guys car and the coil ended up going bad as well as the distributor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks Precision,
I'll take a look.
I ran into a similar problem on another guys car and the coil ended up going bad as well as the distributor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks Precision,
I'll take a look.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 112
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From: Oakland, CA, USA
Re: (PrettyLude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrettyLude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it could also be your ignitor</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's what my mechanic thought. It's in the distributor though, so I figure one of the two that I tryed would have worked... Though I am a bit worryed now that I've fryed two of them based on what Precision mentioned...
I'm going to check things out a bit more today... I'm going up armed with a few more tools then yesterday... A voltmeter, some wrenches and drivers, and fuses... I'm going to check as many of the grounds and I can, and try to swap back to the old disstributor, and figure out what I did that killed the electrical yesterday (Hopefully I just blew a fuse)...
I'll keep everyone posted... But if anyone has more ideas they are always appreciate...
Best,
PM
That's what my mechanic thought. It's in the distributor though, so I figure one of the two that I tryed would have worked... Though I am a bit worryed now that I've fryed two of them based on what Precision mentioned...
I'm going to check things out a bit more today... I'm going up armed with a few more tools then yesterday... A voltmeter, some wrenches and drivers, and fuses... I'm going to check as many of the grounds and I can, and try to swap back to the old disstributor, and figure out what I did that killed the electrical yesterday (Hopefully I just blew a fuse)...
I'll keep everyone posted... But if anyone has more ideas they are always appreciate...
Best,
PM
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 112
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From: Oakland, CA, USA
Re: Engine Trouble (PrecisionH23a)
Damn Precision,
When your right, your right... Took me 15 min to find the ground, but it was very loose... Tightened it back up and no more jumpy tach, no more funky driving... Well almost... Seems like it will die now when it goes open loop -- after warm-up... But I'm going to try swapping the original distributor back on, the one with the replaced cap and rotors, and also pop on the new coil pack I got... And I know I've seen other info, about cars dieing at idle too... So I'll search... But thank you so much for jumping right in with the correct advice. At the least you've saved me a tow, and a possible mechanic bill. If I ever move anywhere near SC, I know where I'm taking my car
When your right, your right... Took me 15 min to find the ground, but it was very loose... Tightened it back up and no more jumpy tach, no more funky driving... Well almost... Seems like it will die now when it goes open loop -- after warm-up... But I'm going to try swapping the original distributor back on, the one with the replaced cap and rotors, and also pop on the new coil pack I got... And I know I've seen other info, about cars dieing at idle too... So I'll search... But thank you so much for jumping right in with the correct advice. At the least you've saved me a tow, and a possible mechanic bill. If I ever move anywhere near SC, I know where I'm taking my car
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Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Oakland, CA, USA
Re: Engine Trouble (PrecisionH23a)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm glad that was your problem... most likely your coil needs to be replaced now. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Cool, got a brand new one sitting on the front seat, I'll pop it in before I try and drive home. I was able to keep it from dieing with some fancy foot-work earlier though, so I'm not to worried... I know now at least I can get it home and work on it where I have a proper set of tools.
Thanks again for all the info!
-PM
Cool, got a brand new one sitting on the front seat, I'll pop it in before I try and drive home. I was able to keep it from dieing with some fancy foot-work earlier though, so I'm not to worried... I know now at least I can get it home and work on it where I have a proper set of tools.
Thanks again for all the info!
-PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Oakland, CA, USA
Re: Engine Trouble (datac99) - Now the 5K rev limit is back...
Damn... Well, the coil does seem to have been the problem with the idle... However it seems to back back in limp mode with the 5K rev limit that I was experiencing with the disconnected oil pressure sender (See last weeks problem ;-). However, the oil pressure sender is connected this time...
So no CEL again, and it's not the oil pressure sender...
I'll likely take it to the mechanic and let him hook his fancy scan tool up to it and see if there are any DTC's stored or something... I really need to dig my scan tool out of storage... Maybe mount it in the dash, leave it hooked up at all times ;-)
So no CEL again, and it's not the oil pressure sender...
I'll likely take it to the mechanic and let him hook his fancy scan tool up to it and see if there are any DTC's stored or something... I really need to dig my scan tool out of storage... Maybe mount it in the dash, leave it hooked up at all times ;-)
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 112
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From: Oakland, CA, USA
Re: Engine Trouble (datac99) - Now the 5K rev limit is back... (datac99)
So... Hum... Apparently the limiter does not kick in when the car is not in gear. It will go over 5200 no problem. Had a factory scan tool hooked up the whole time and there are no DTC's, and my mechanic said everything looks well within the normal ranges. So I'm kind of stumped...
So I took her out on the freeway again, figuring that maybe it had been so long since I had some VTEC action that I was mistaking the engagement for for the limiter... But sadly no... When I hit 5000-5200 I get a wicked rev limit, bounces off 5200 and will not let me rev higher.
I'm stumped again. This is the exact same limp mode/rev limit I was getting 2 weeks ago when the oil pressure sender's cable had come loose. That also caused no CEL or stored DTC's, but was apparent because the oil pressure warning light would not come on when I started the car.
So if anyone has an idea about this one... Both myself and the mechanic are kind of stumped. And the mechanic won't have a chance to do any kind of in depth diagnostic for a few days.
Best Regards,
Peter M.
So I took her out on the freeway again, figuring that maybe it had been so long since I had some VTEC action that I was mistaking the engagement for for the limiter... But sadly no... When I hit 5000-5200 I get a wicked rev limit, bounces off 5200 and will not let me rev higher.
I'm stumped again. This is the exact same limp mode/rev limit I was getting 2 weeks ago when the oil pressure sender's cable had come loose. That also caused no CEL or stored DTC's, but was apparent because the oil pressure warning light would not come on when I started the car.
So if anyone has an idea about this one... Both myself and the mechanic are kind of stumped. And the mechanic won't have a chance to do any kind of in depth diagnostic for a few days.
Best Regards,
Peter M.
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