prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Firedrake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Agreed as well, as I said up there about Aj's post about adding IAB control to P28's, that subject is beyond the scope of this thread.</TD></TR></TABLE>

some good information on both of these subjects is found in the library section of pgmfi.org,

i am still trying to find out if you say get fuel and spark maps that work for you turbo of n/a application and then burn it to a chip and replace the stock p13 chip if it will work..

abolish415

just a dumb question ... can u use a p13 ecu with a p28 chip ... cuz my ecu fits right in .. but i dunno will it work for my car ... for a h22a

mgags7

^^no the computer cant read it....

im really the sucker out of this whole thing, listen to this.....

i bought a p72 off ebay for $150, socketed and ready to go....thinking i needed it to keep IAB, guess not now.....F....that sucks....

popped in my basemap from lightning motorsports and tried to start, solid cel and led from s200 box.....

called lightning, they said they burned a p28 map by default, i shoulda told them i had p72....

so, i drove and hour and a half to turbo tune in greensboro, nc.....mark there is a great guy btw.....

burned a p72 program, still same solid cel and led....

mark and i spent a whole afternoon looking over the ecu and all the soldiers, redid the 73 chip and a few of the socket soldiers....

still no work

reconnected all the **** to stock like and burned a stock p72 program to it....started up and ran fine....so now i know the ecu is good and i cant **** on the ebay guy.....

mark cant figure out the problem so he sends it to an electrician friend to look at, thinks maybe he can find some problems

i got it back 2 months later, went down there ready to tune it, and again, it doesnt work....

i have no damn idea what the problem is, hondata told me to send her in, so i decided to wait until i get cams to tune it/fix the ecu....and now i dont even want it, so i am left with a worthless peice of crap that works for nobody.....

cant sell it as a virgin p72 if i reconnect everything

dont want to spend any more money to fix it if i have to deal with a 5800 rpm IAB opening....

one question: can you change the IAB opening with the s200? (please say yes so i can keep the ecu and be happy)

Firedrake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
one question: can you change the IAB opening with the s200? (please say yes so i can keep the ecu and be happy)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes. Sounds like you went through a hassle, so either your tuner is incompetent or your hondata box is bad. As soon as you ruled out the ECU, you should have sent in the Hondata and found a new tuner. Hondata is very good about fixing problems with their boxes.....

iakona

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Firedrake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes. Sounds like you went through a hassle, so either your tuner is incompetent or your hondata box is bad. As soon as you ruled out the ECU, you should have sent in the Hondata and found a new tuner. Hondata is very good about fixing problems with their boxes.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

unless you have an issue with one of their Stage systems. then they don't. they suck. me and my little bro can vouch for that one.

and as far as the P28 operating the IABs, there are two ways:
1- operate them solely based on the vacuum in the manifold
2- when they socket your ECU, they can do it so that the IAB function is retained...P28 or P72 or P73

mgags7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iakona &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

unless you have an issue with one of their Stage systems. then they don't. they suck. me and my little bro can vouch for that one.

and as far as the P28 operating the IABs, there are two ways:
1- operate them solely based on the vacuum in the manifold
2- when they socket your ECU, they can do it so that the IAB function is retained...P28 or P72 or P73</TD></TR></TABLE>

the IABs can be controlled with the msd rpm activated switch as satan said, which i think is the best option, unless of course you can change the ecu setting in the s200 if you have p72....

iakona

i must have missed that one. so an MSD standalone RPM activated switch. hhmm. cool.

abolish415

anyone have the p13 ecu wit the spoon chip ??? whats there gas miledge for a full tank just wandering ..

djnikko

Im going turbo on my h22 and am nearly about ready to send the block of for sleeving. I have a question about engine management thou, I live in the UK so we dont have local hondata tuners and the like, and not many people understand the kind of project im trying to achieve. I am just after a good piece of kit that I can work out myself and maybe pass on the knowledge to my tuner. What I have been getting is people trying to push me down the MOTEC ECU route which has little support other than that of my tuner. My budget would be about $1000, but if theres something available for $500 that does the same then im there. Would the AEM EMS be suitable?
I have a SAFC hack at the moment but once im over 5-8PSI or thereabout I get the feeling this is going to be useless or maybe it is already. Please post your comments, thanks

mgags7

you will need the EMS, hondata would work perfect, but local tuners are necessary.....

the motec is very very expensive.....

go with the AEM EMS, if you have an EMS tuner local, but know it is gonna cost about $1000 for the unit....

MindEracer

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by djnikko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im going turbo on my h22 and am nearly about ready to send the block of for sleeving. I have a question about engine management thou, I live in the UK so we dont have local hondata tuners and the like, and not many people understand the kind of project im trying to achieve. I am just after a good piece of kit that I can work out myself and maybe pass on the knowledge to my tuner. What I have been getting is people trying to push me down the MOTEC ECU route which has little support other than that of my tuner. My budget would be about $1000, but if theres something available for $500 that does the same then im there. Would the AEM EMS be suitable?
I have a SAFC hack at the moment but once im over 5-8PSI or thereabout I get the feeling this is going to be useless or maybe it is already. Please post your comments, thanks </TD></TR></TABLE>

Another option would be to use Crome, on pgmfi.org. for around $500-$600. You could have a full standalone.
$100-200 for a chiped P28,P30 or p72 ecu doesn't matter
$150 for crome license(if you own your own laptop)
$180 for romultor or Ostrich unit for RTP
$50-80 for a chip burner

Crome is extremly easy to tune and use, if your tuner has any idea how to tune he will fugure it out in a matter of minutes..
If you can find a local tuner with a tuning license it can be even cheaper, were talking the cost of the chipped ecu and tuning....

If you would like to use higher resolution map or some more advanced features in crome contact me..


Modified by MindEracer at 8:41 AM 5/26/2005

93h22a1vtec

allmotor 18, how much you want for that ecu, and is there anything done to it?

93h22a1vtec

ALLMOTOR, how much you want for the p72, get back to me by email, bbsock17@yahoo.com

WiteSiprelude

OK, so i read the post, and you say that the P74, P75 are the best for the H23 motor. I got my hands on a P72. But i want to know which will work the best of a turbo appalication. knowing that i would spead the money for Hondata..

98vtec

Aight there are a few things i want to go over with this topic. Your options of ecu's are the following:
p13 (92-95 prelude)
p28 (92-95 civic ex and one of the del sol models)
p72 (92-95 gsr integra)

http://www.car-parts.com is a good site to find these ecu's in the junk yards.

Conversion Harness:
There are quite a few people who offer the harness to convert to an OBDI ecu:
http://www.jkobd.com
http://www.boomslang.us
http://www.kingmotorsports.com (boomslang)
http://www.phearable.net (Honda-tech sponsor, I can vouch for his awesome customer service and quality)
....i know there are prolly more people that make harnesses but these are just the ones off the top of my head.
NOTE:
Remember that when you are ordering the harness, be sure that you are getting OBD2A - OBD1.

Chipping and Socketing
Chipping involves soldering a socket onto the ecu board that will accept an eprom chip that can be used to overwrite the stock/modified fuel/ignition tables. These chips are rewriteable meaning you dont have to use a new chip everytime you change something. The parts to chip/socket an ecu can be found here: http://www.moates.net/product_...id=42.

Extra INFO on the ways of tuning:
aight i wanted to add how the actual process of burning the chips, etc is done.
When the tuner (or you) is making adjustments on the motor he is using an Ostrich.
http://www.moates.net/product_...id=57
The Ostrich is used to complete the tune; it is connected from computer to the ecu during tuning. Once the tune is done via laptop, you plug a programmer into the USB of the computer. http://www.moates.net/product_...id=48
The programmer burns the info from the computer onto the eprom chip that is to be placed onto the socket in your ecu after tuning is complete.

P13
The p13 ecu again is from the 4th gen Prelude (92-95) H22. When it comes to tuning this ecu, its very limited compared to the p28 and p72. http://www.hondata.com has support for the p13 but like i said, it has very limited tuning adjustments compared to the other two.
Here is how to convert a p13 from auto to manual:
http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin...anual

P28
This comes from the 92-95 civic ex. This ecu does not read for EGR and knock sensor and does not (from the factory) have the ability to control the secondary intake valves (IAB's). You can however manipulate the ecu to control them by doing a couple simple steps. If you do not remove the iab valve and plug in this ecu, you will lose a good amount of power after 5500 due to the valves not opening. I removed the valves by taking off the plenum of the intake manifold and simply unscrewing the valves from the shaft and leaving the shaft in place.
If for some reason you cannot find a manual transmission p28, dont worry...its ok. The auto ecu can be manipulated very simply to become a 5 speed ecu.
go here to see how to go from auto to manual with a P28:
http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin...anual
The conversion to make the p28 control the IAB's can be found here:
http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin...ToP28

The p28 is the cheapest and most abundant when compared to the p72.

P72
This comes out of the 92-95 Gsr integra. It retains all functions of the p13 which means you dont have to remove the iab's or modify the ecu to be able to control them. This ecu, in most cases, is much more expensive than the p28. Generally, its 50-100 dollars more expensive. Technically, this is the best ecu use sense it retains all the sensors, but for the extra price you pay for it, you could have the p28 modified to do a certain task and not hurt your wallet as much.


For more extra info if you want to explore yourself view these related and have a look around:
http://www.pgmfi.org
http://www.phearable.net
http://www.hondata.com
http://www.hrtuning.com
http://www.moates.net

Hope this helps

NAmodified

question on the p28, how do i get those 5-10 horses the short runners take away under 5500rpm?

bpalmer00

hey, i'm looking for some advice. i have a 96 prelude s (f22) and i have an h22 out of a 93 that i rebuilt and raised the compression to 11.5:1. i've been doing some research on how to run this engine in my car and this is what i've come up with.

it looks like my best bet is going to be changing to OBD1. i know i'm going to need a conversion harness and an OBD1 ecu. i'm leaning toward the p28 with some sort of chip. what else will i need to make it work?

my other concern is passing inspection, is it possible to switch my stock ecu back in for the inspection or would that throw codes? i live in upstate ny and they're getting kind of strick with inspections, so i don't think i would pass with the OBD1 ecu.

any help would be greatly appreciated.

bpalmer00

TTT

The Weather Man

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bpalmer00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
my other concern is passing inspection, is it possible to switch my stock ecu back in for the inspection or would that throw codes? i live in upstate ny and they're getting kind of strick with inspections, so i don't think i would pass with the OBD1 ecu.

any help would be greatly appreciated.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well i think that it was kinda stupid to raise the compression on an H series motor - with the hope of passing inspection; however, I would still suggest you getting the p72 ecu - and not go with the p28. You'll have to try to adjust timing and fuel as much as possible to pass inspection. Thats the only way you're going to pass it. 11.5:1 won't be easy.

A Blue Lude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The Weather Man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You'll have to try to adjust timing and fuel as much as possible to pass inspection. Thats the only way you're going to pass it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

He isn't passing with a p28 or p72 or anything else unless it's OBD2 though. The problem is not one of emissions/tuning, it's that you need an OBD2 ECU or you fail.

iLude

I'm glad this threads been bumped from the dead, because I have a question on the matter.

I autocross, and the class I'm in (STS) allows piggy-back tuners. I'm looking to make myself a little more competitive, and tuning should help. However, the mods are limited in STS. Header, Exhaust (no high flow cat allowed), pulleys, and intake are pretty much it. Would eManage be beneficial to me, since it supports ignition tuning, or is a VAFC sufficient for my mild bolt ons? I'm new to tuning and trying to learn as much as I can (even bought a rather thick book on it )

. M i c h a e l

bump for the hell of it.

AnthonyG2003

So, If I think I am having knock sensor problems in my 94 jdm h22a...Could I swap in the p28 and that correct the problem? Would the p72 fix the problem?

98vtec

p28 doesnt read for knock so yes, it would eliminate the problem. The p72 has a knock board.

AnthonyG2003

so i could buy a p28, plug it in and go...but i thought i read that it would make me lose about 5hp or something.