well, this is more of a rant then any thing. After saving my money up back in jan, I pick up one of those so called low mileage engines. after a little over 6 months and maybe 4000 miles, i start hearing a small knocking noise.

So i decide to check it out because i just bought a turbo and was planing on going the FI route. I figured that i would check for any obvious signs of wear just in case. When i removed the oil pan i saw a few small metal flakes, so i decided to check the piston bearings. when i did they all appeared to be ok. For some reason i decided to pull the main caps and check the main bearings and this is what i found



Every single bearing except for one looked like this. WHAT THE F*&k could do this. I only have I/H/E nothing major, not pushing tons of HP. Im so pissed. This makes me want to give the damn car up. I not sure how badly the crank is messed up or if its still ok, there aren't any groves in it but it cant be in that great of shape with how the bearings look.

I would like some opinions, what is the most cost effective way to take care of this? should i sell the car? should i check all the clearances and see if i can get away with just new bearings? Should i buy a new engine? Should i just by a new bottom end? I have no idea what to do, how much can a 92 with a crappy motor sell for?

Well thats enough for right now, im still pissed but this is getting long. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

*edit* fixed pics



Modified by CHK4TIX at 7:41 AM 8/13/2003

 

sorry to see this happening...were you always driving the motor hard? well maintained? was there enough fuel to compensate for I/E/H?? I'd get a new motor...
Good luck

 

Well, the bearings actually are bad? They from what I can tell, just look like worn bearings. To check if the crank is grooved, run your fingernail across the journals. It shouldn't jump or ripple at all. Past what I said for getting the crank done, check out a set of ACL bearings. $100, and usually fit pretty good.

Mike

 

If if looks like all you need are new bearings... I'd say stick with the of OEM Honda. They're good for 700+HP. Call KG Precision Engineering and ask for Kurt Gordon. (714) 841-8990. He can probably help you diagnose the situation.

Also, if you're looking for a new bottom end. Try to get a '96 or newer one. The crank journals are much thicker and will handle more stress.

Looks as though the bearings are scorned. Think you might have had detonation, maybe burned the tip off your spark plug, or fractured piston rings. Either way, seems like metallic abrasion was the culprit.

I'd seriously check out the crank and piston rings.

 

First thing I would do is replace the OIL PUMP !
Then if your crank is ok get new bearings and put it back together. Make sure you get all the metal shavings out of the motor first!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FaS4wS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">were you always driving the motor hard? well maintained? was there enough fuel to compensate for I/E/H?? I'd get a new motor...
Good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

well, since i put the motor in, i havent really driven it to hard. It has had 4 oil changes in about 4000 miles, so i maintained it well. As far as who had the motor originaly i have no idea. There should have been enough fuel.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22apwrd95 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, the bearings actually are bad? They from what I can tell, just look like worn bearings. To check if the crank is grooved, run your fingernail across the journals. It shouldn't jump or ripple at all. Past what I said for getting the crank done, check out a set of ACL bearings. $100, and usually fit pretty good.

Mike</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have other pics of the bearings but im at work right now so i cant post them. The bearings look as if they broke up. instead of being a smooth texture they seem to have holes and chunks missing. I will get some pics up of the crank its self later as well. thanks Mike

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ScareyH22A &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If if looks like all you need are new bearings...Looks as though the bearings are scorned. Think you might have had detonation, maybe burned the tip off your spark plug, or fractured piston rings. Either way, seems like metallic abrasion was the culprit.

I'd seriously check out the crank and piston rings.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, the tips of the plugs seemed ok but they where a little white, i think i post a pic of them also. I guess i will be pulling this engine out this weekend to check the rings as well. Thanks for the info Scarey

 

Those don't look like the worn honda bearings I've seen. If someone has already been in there, they may have put it back together with improper clearances. Take the crank out and get it checked, and maybe micropolished, then put it back together with new honda bearings. Should be maybe $200 if you do a lot of the work yourself. Check clearances on the new bearings! Good luck, and thanks for sharing your experiences with us all...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flyrod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Those don't look like the worn honda bearings I've seen. If someone has already been in there, they may have put it back together with improper clearances. Take the crank out and get it checked, and maybe micropolished, then put it back together with new honda bearings. Should be maybe $200 if you do a lot of the work yourself. Check clearances on the new bearings! Good luck, and thanks for sharing your experiences with us all...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was wondering about the bearings because, as i said there is one of the bearings that almost looks new. its a little worn but nothing like the others. It almost looks like it made out a different metal. Im still trying to decide if i should take the time to try and fix this or just get a bottom end with lower miles with a good crank and use that for about $500 or buy bearings, maybe new crank, maybe pistons, and who knows what else, which could end up costing a lot more than $500

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ScareyH22A &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, if you're looking for a new bottom end. Try to get a '96 or newer one. The crank journals are much thicker and will handle more stress.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The larger journals started showing up in '98 . . . .

 

not a very technical post, but Keep Hope Alive! no need to give up on your motor if you have the means to fix it. these guys are all giving good advice, and since everything else seems to be fine, see what you can do with what you have. i don't know enough about bottom ends to give you any technical advise, but moral support i can give. i'm sure there are more guys than me who would like to see you back on the road again soon. good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

 

everyone is right, you should NOT sell the car, just get the crank checked out and it looks like if the mains arn't all bured you can probably just replace all the bearings and put it back together. if the crank is damamged then you can alwasy get a low mileage bottom end , or even go h23 vtec, good luck keep us up to date with pics and wha you decide to do. You also go my support here, u know you don't want to sell that car, just alittle mad, just go sit in the drivers seat fora miniute, youll remember why you like the lude! good luck

 

ya dont sell, take it apart to see the real prob. or maybe even by my bottom end, if you want to spend that kind of money.


and for the guy above me:
H22A1
Humanity geography

H22A2
Traffic transport

H22A3
Area government

H22A4
‹x? Playing Œe

H22A402
‹x? Playing Œe behavior

H22A5
Construction äo urban design

H22A6
City and ™½ limits

H22A7
Scene æV ›{

H22A8
Environmental äo resource management

H22A9
‘´ other things

 

Hey CHK4TIX..maybe you would be better off buying a complete JDM longblock and just parting out the remainder of parts you have from your current H22 longblock. Just a thought.

Good luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by caz245 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First thing I would do is replace the OIL PUMP !
Then if your crank is ok get new bearings and put it back together. Make sure you get all the metal shavings out of the motor first!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree, oil starvation could have been the downfall. It happened to me once, looked the same too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Daemione &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The larger journals started showing up in '98 . . . .</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is NOT correct! They started in 96!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastludeh22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya dont sell, take it apart to see the real prob. or maybe even by my bottom end, if you want to spend that kind of money.


and for the guy above me:
H22A1
Humanity geography

H22A2
Traffic transport

H22A3
Area government

H22A4
‹x? Playing Œe

H22A402
‹x? Playing Œe behavior

H22A5
Construction äo urban design

H22A6
City and ™½ limits

H22A7
Scene æV ›{

H22A8
Environmental äo resource management

H22A9
‘´ other things

</TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont get it...i clicked the link, and found the jibberish...whats the deal?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tha Big EZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

this is NOT correct! They started in 96!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm 100% that the larger crank journals started with the '96. My buddy sells motors and Kurt at KG told me the same thing. If you boost, get the '96 or newer. Viet Lam and Stephan Papadakis used a '96 just for that reason alone when they used to work together at Honda Pro.

 

CHK4TIX, how are the rod bearings, do they look the same, check your oil pick up it might be clogged up, I would also check the camshaft journals to make sure they are not scored. btw if you need a crankshaft and rods I've got these parts.

 

You realize that if you had installed the UR crank pulley, Everyone would be blaming that. Only half kidding...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ScareyH22A &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm 100% that the larger crank journals started with the '96. My buddy sells motors and Kurt at KG told me the same thing. If you boost, get the '96 or newer. Viet Lam and Stephan Papadakis used a '96 just for that reason alone when they used to work together at Honda Pro.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I always thought it was in '97 when they switched to the H22A4, but I just looked up the crankshafts and there are actually 3 different part #'s. One covers '93, one covers '94-'97, and one covers '98+. Unfortunately the parts catalog doesnt have any specs for them.

 

Ok...So here's MY sob story...(skim if its too long, sorry)

I have been going through approx. 1qt of Mobil 1 syn. and then most recently AMSOIL syn every 500miles for months now. I was hoping the 'better' oil would help - it DIDNT.

So for the last few weeks I have been trying to figure out if the culprit is Valve Seals...Piston rings...or other leaking valves & seals. Sunday I checked the PCV valve and it seemed fine although the Breather thing that recirculates gasses into my intake has been disconnected from my AEM CAI and in its place a little "Breather" thing was installed by previous owner. I noticed the breather DID have some oil on it but not a significant amount.

So finally this week I make an appointment @ the local Honda dealership for next THURS (that was the soonest they could do). On MONDAY I notice My Idle is a little bit harsher than normal and TUES/WED I begin reading CHK4TIX posts closely...

Then TUES night my Idle is more than just harsh there is a LOUD rapping noise *oh $hit!!*

So I'm like ok its coming from the right side of Engine its prob just a lose Belt and Hopefully not the timing belt. So I didn't drive it all all yesterday - then last night my buddy and I start it up and take a look and listen. NOW we notice not only a loud rapping but a periodic squealing-type noise - so again I'm like ok its a loose belt.

But then I notice the CRANK PULLEY IS NOTICIABLY WOBBLY!!! AAHHH!!!

So my buddy's like DAMN....you have something wrong with the CRANK and prob. need new Crank bearing(s) and seal(s) maybe worse!!!

But after speaking w/his dad who's a diesel engine mechanic he says don't worry its probably JUST the HARMONIC BALANCER and basically the crank pulley thats the issue - no biggie...

I HOPE my buddy's dad is right and its relatively Minor BUT then I still can't explain where my oil consumption is coming from then?!?!?!

I am going to drive my hobbling car 2 hrs south (if it will go that far) to a diff. certified Honda mechanic I'm friends with and have him tear her apart and diagnose this $hit. He's counting on AT LEAST a top/end head rebuild & maybe more.

So today and for an indefinite amount of time I get to share my GF's 2001 Ford Fuc-As!! AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

I've never had problems this potentially bad w/my 2 previous 200,000mi + Accords...I think AUGUST is "Curse of the Prelude Month"


Modified by LudeBoyLeRoy at 5:05 PM 8/15/2003

 

Harmonic Balancer?!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Harmonic Balancer?!</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah don't ask me....I think I've heard of it b4...but I'm not sure if his mechanic dad is correct (he came up w/this idea over the phone not in person).

All I know is it is attached-to or part-of the CRANK PULLEY...and I'm scared...

PS: anybody heard of the HARMONIC BALANCER or whatever it is or am I smoking crack??

THANKS
Modified by LudeBoyLeRoy at 6:18 PM 8/15/2003


Modified by LudeBoyLeRoy at 6:19 PM 8/15/2003

 

I know on my chevelle, and other V-8's, it's a heavy pulley on the end of the crank that's supposed to absorb a lot of the vibrations from the motor.

I wasn't aware that our little cars had anything like that....he's prob. just used to those big ole diesels.

 

You might be right (he deals in big-a$$ diesel truck engines - I guess I'll find out when my engine blows-up or when the Honda mechanic I know takes a look @ it.