Apocalypse

We've all debated it and everyone has their opinion. I'm curious what others out there do because it seems what I learned to be the norm isn't in fact the norm.

We're talking about every day riding here folks. What you do in emergency situations, when you're stunting, running mad twisties y0 or at the track doesn't count. This is your common every day, lets say commuter, braking style.

ProjectF4

70-30 i belive is the correct ratio for everyday riding

hybridreams

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocalypse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We're talking about every day riding here folks. What you do in emergency situations, when you're stunting, running mad twisties y0 or at the track doesn't count. This is your common every day, lets say commuter, braking style.</TD></TR></TABLE>

D'oh! How can you rule out emergency situations?

Apocalypse

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybridreams &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

D'oh! How can you rule out emergency situations?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Because I would hope that in emergency situations everyone would agree that using both would provide the shortest stopping distance... although I'm sure you'd argue that it's not the safest.

P.S. - God I'm itching to ride.

Etylorcen

Its highly recommened you only use your front in an emergency situation. Very few people have the control and use both brakes in an emergency, most people just think about stopping so they will overbrake in the front making the rear useless except for locking it up.
When I first learned to ride at the track I only used the front. When I started to amatuer race I didnt use both brakes for a while until I really needed to.

When I commute, if Im just crusing to a red light Ill use mainly rear just to save my front brakes a lil. If you're just learning to ride you _have_ to get into the habbit of knowing that most of your braking power must come from the front.

Apocalypse

Everyone touts the benefits of the MSF course and praises it for helping riders learn to ride better but it seems like folks weren't even paying attention in class.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Etylorcen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its highly recommened you only use your front in an emergency situation.</TD></TR></TABLE>

By whom? Not MSF.

http://www.msf-usa.org/index_n...spl=0

There is a correct way to slow and stop your motorcycle safely. Both your classroom and on-motorcycle training will:
-Show you how your hands and feet work together in a coordinated and smooth fashion
-Provide practice using both brakes simultaneously by squeezing the front-brake lever while pressing on the rear-brake pedal
-Explain why both brakes should be applied at the same time when stopping.
-Cover why it is important to develop the habit of always using both brakes
__________________________________________________

An article to read:
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.c...g0104

Myth #1:
Use Only the Front Brake
This train of thought goes something like: "Since the majority of a motorcycle's braking power comes from the front brake, don't use the rear brake at all. In fact, as the weight shifts forward during heavy braking, the rear brake becomes more likely to lock up and cause you to crash."

Always question advice that suggests you do something because the other way is difficult to master. Unless you are braking so hard that the rear wheel of your motorcycle is in the air, you can shorten your stopping distance with proper application of the rear brake.
__________________________________________________ ________

Read this one as well:
http://www.hypercycles.org/for...=1999

Home Skillet

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ProjectF4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">70-30 i belive is the correct ratio for everyday riding</TD></TR></TABLE>
word booty.

hybridreams

Something to keep an eye on as well:

http://www.dcsportbikes.com/di...ion=1

Some prime examples of why I don't use the rear brake. Member cehowardrc51 is actually the person who advised me to leave my rear brakes alone. He gave me 30+ years worth of stories and examples. Was a looong lunch that day.

Home Skillet

How about adjusting the rear brake to the point where it wouldn't lock up when mashed on?

marmaladedad

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Home Skillet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about adjusting the rear brake to the point where it wouldn't lock up when mashed on? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Absolutely possible - all you need to do is not step down too hard with your right foot.

The fastest way to come to a stop is with both brakes. Depending on the conditions, you will have to adjust your braking as necessary. Under most circumstances, grabbing a handful or brake will cause the brakes to lock up the wheel and it's possible you'll low-side (especially if you're in a turn).

Son

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Home Skillet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about adjusting the rear brake to the point where it wouldn't lock up when mashed on? </TD></TR></TABLE>Riders actually do this, some have lead feet. Add air bubble to your rear brake lines.

immortal

heh sometimes when pulling up to a light all i use is rear brake when coasting in neutral. it'll be cheaper to replace the rear brake pads & rotor than the fronts

i use the rear brake a lot more when i have a passenger as well. it takes the load off their arms and keeps them from getting pushed into you.

Etylorcen

In all honestly, in an emergency situation you most likely arent going to have enough common sense to not to overgrab you're front brakes so much that any rear braking will just lock it up. Of course the msf says you should use the front and back because that is the fastest way to stop...but are you going to have enough control to do it? I highly doubt it. I consider myself a fairly skilled rider and if a car cuts me off and slams the brake I dont use any rear brake. I probably wouldnt lock up the rear if I tried but there is still that possibility which could be very bad especially if there is a car behind me that could run me over if I lock up the rear and go down.

DeLiRiOu5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Etylorcen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I probably wouldnt lock up the rear if I tried but there is still that possibility which could be very bad especially if there is a car behind me that could run me over if I lock up the rear and go down. </TD></TR></TABLE>

what about the possibility of rear ending the car in front of you because you didn't have enough braking power since the rear brakes weren't used.

Ag-Eng

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Etylorcen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Of course the msf says you should use the front and back because that is the fastest way to stop...but are you going to have enough control to do it? I highly doubt it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Had you taken the MSF course, you would know that they teach you just that. A controlled skid.

In fact, if you take the MSF course, you will learn a LOT of things you THINK you know about riding a bike, but were clueless about before the classes.

I can honestly say taking the MSF course saved my life. I had a rear tire rapid deflation (got a 1/2" bolt through the tire) at over 80 MPH. The bike turned to mush and wanted to go everywhere. My training kicked in and a I slowly brought the bike to a stop under complete control.

I know it's not braking, but it's the Training with MSF that makes the difference. I find myself now using both front and rear brakes at all times. You get used to it, and when something comes up where you have to brake fast, you already have the mindset to use both.

I'm pretty sure that is exactly why MSF teaches riders to use both at all times, because it becomes second nature when you really need it.


BTW- who's the ID10T's that voted "mostly rear, a little front"? I hope you're not serious.

Apocalypse

It amazes me that people don't use the rear brake because it is (or might be) "too hard" not to over-brake.

In an accident in a car, it's best to depress both the brake and clutch pedals to minimize various types of occurrences. Does that mean the people in here who are afraid to use the rear brake properly only drive automatics because they might not have the wherewithal to depress both pedals?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Etylorcen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In all honestly, in an emergency situation you most likely arent going to have enough common sense to not to overgrab you're front brakes so much that any rear braking will just lock it up. Of course the msf says you should use the front and back because that is the fastest way to stop...but are you going to have enough control to do it? I highly doubt it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you don't think you have the skill necessary to do what the MSF teaches than you shouldn't be riding. Plain and simple.


I was one of the people who said mostly back and some front. The reason behind that is I haven't really gotten my bike past 60 mph yet and end up coasting to a stop most of the time. To brake slowly I usually start with the light pressure on the rear then increase my dependence on the front, eventually using all front at very low speeds. In a full braking situation I would use more front than rear but just commuting to work I don't.

UTCiv

If you always brake with equal front and rear (relative to traction, not to deceleration force 80/20) every time, it just becomes habit. I've been riding for about 17 years now, and it's just habit to grab both.

I have been in numerous on and off road occasions to use every last inch of my braking power and if I did not have the proportioning engrained in my riding habits, I may have wrecked.

I would agree to not always brake with the perfect percentage every time, but if you do, make sure that using just the front or the back is a conscious decision to feel out the bike, or to make a manuver that requires either front or rear braking only.

typeeg

I always use both unless I need to brake before a turn, then I only use the front for a brief second.

immortal

if you're about to crash i'd bet that you'll start endoing before you started locking up your rear brake.

Etylorcen

Keeping both wheels spinning and slowing down quickly is going to be the safest way to stop. According to the American Motorcycle Safety Foundation, if you try to get the best out of both brakes in an emergency, you will get the best out of neither.

I dont think I need to respond to anyone that hasnt taken their bike above 60.

ScareyH22A

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by immortal &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you're about to crash i'd bet that you'll start endoing before you started locking up your rear brake.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Been there. Twice.

BallHawk3

i use both, even in emergency situation. You should use both. Most of the time, i grab the clutch along with the brakes too. Don't think i've ever locked the rear except maybe a few times but for a short moment and that was right before i came to a stop. And if you took the MSF course, you would know this.

funny though, when driving, everytime i slammed on my brakes, i'd step down on the clutch too.

and yes it is f70 r30. You should use both so you can be used to it in case an emergency situation does come.

Luke

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocalypse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We've all debated it and everyone has their opinion. I'm curious what others out there do because it seems what I learned to be the norm isn't in fact the norm.

We're talking about every day riding here folks. What you do in emergency situations, when you're stunting, running mad twisties y0 or at the track doesn't count. This is your common every day, lets say commuter, braking style.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Q?

To all that are saying 30% rear, how do you think that the rear is going to slow the bike down when the trye has no traction? Back brakes are maybe of some use for mid corner to settle the bike down but no use for any proper deceleration, if they were then you would find disks and calipers that worked on the rear as well as the front.

100% front.

What they should be telling you is that brakes are the enemy, a bad thing, not a safety factor. The moment you squeeze the lever you are no longer in control of the bike. It wont turn on the brakes and if something else happens the only thing you can do once on the brakes is to get on them harder. If the front goes you fall off, and its going to hurt. For daily riding get off thebrakes more, get all the braking done early and back on the power for the corner, just trail it this will let the bike be neutral. Advanced courses on throttle control and just what a pain the *** brakes are to the suspension are the way to go.

MSF is just the beginning of a much bigger picture, thats why bikes are cooler than cars in the first place

Luke

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BallHawk3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i use both, even in emergency situation. You should use both. Most of the time, i grab the clutch along with the brakes too. Don't think i've ever locked the rear except maybe a few times but for a short moment and that was right before i came to a stop. And if you took the MSF course, you would know this.

funny though, when driving, everytime i slammed on my brakes, i'd step down on the clutch too.

and yes it is f70 r30. You should use both so you can be used to it in case an emergency situation does come.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you are having an 'emergency situation' this would require maximum braking power. Therefore 100% front would be applied, I just love how all this crap comes from these courses. Its like the airplane sitting on the water when it crashes int he Atlantic, its not really like that when it happens.

If you are locking the rear just before you stop this should prove to you just how little grip the rear has. The same speeds you can stand the bike on its nose with the front.

BallHawk3

ok.....in an emergency, i'm going to slam on the front brake, enough before it locks up or my before i go face first into the ground, and i'm gonna slam on the rear brake also, enough on it without it locking up.

when they say 70 30, its obviously about braking. Your bike has 2 brakes the front obviously being the bigger, better more effective however you want to put it. Now you can use only the front, but doing that so you will only be able to use about 70% of what your bikes braking power is really capable. Ride your bike, cruise along, now apply the just the front brake, your bike slows down, not apply the rear, the bike slows down even more. The rear works, its not useless, why not use it? Like in a car, you have 4 brakes, 2 front two rear, and one pedal. You step on the pedal and a computer, luck, god does the rest for you. Of course the ones in the front are the stronger ones, but you think if you pulled off the rear brakes off your car, you'd be able to stop as good as you did with 2 now instead of 4?

Are you going to for sure die if you only use the front? Most likely not. Sure theres plenty of people who only use the front. But there might come a time one day when you might need that extra braking power from the rear.

Me, I try not to get on the brakes so much (bascially the least i use them, the better), i let the bike (and car) slow down itself, let off the throttle sooner, yea and brake early. No point in trying to gun it then brake hard at the very least moment possible. I try to avoid the emergency situations.

But yea, the rear brake is there, its functional, why not just use it also? Let it help out the front, ease the load off the front.