04 Honda Pilot

I'M SORRY I DIDN'T EXPLAIN MY SITUATION WELL,

I CHANGED TIMING BELT--WATER PUMP--CHANGED ALTERNATOR COMPRESSOR BELT--POWER STEERING BELT--SIDE ENGINE MOUNT--POWER STEERING PUMP--COOLANT--THERMOSTAT--FRONT HYDRAULIC ENGINE MOUNT.

DRIVES FINE EXCEPT I HAVE SOME TYPE OF FLUID LEAKING UNDER 'SHIFT CABLE COVER' (NEAR WHERE ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION MESH TOGETHER)AND 2-3' FROM THE COVER TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE VEHICLE.

WHEN I CHANGED THE FRONT HYDRAULIC ENGINE MOUNT--IN THE PROCEDURE IT MENTIONED TO SLIGHTLY RAISE TRANSMISSION I BELIEVE I RAISED IT TOO MUCH BECAUSE I HEARD A POP. THE TIME THAT LAPSED BETWEEN HEARING THE POP AND PERFORMING ALL THE OTHER MAINTENANCE MENTIONED ABOVE WAS ABOUT A MONTH. AND WITHIN THE MONTH I DIDN'T SEE ANY VISIBLE LEAKING UNDER THE VEHICLE. THE LEAKING BECAME VISIBLE ONLY AFTER DRIVING IT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS CAUSING THE LEAK?

WHAT RECCOMENDATIONS TO FIX IT?

THANKS FOR ANY IDEAS AND FEEDBACK

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Really hard to say. Chasing down a leak can't really be done over the internet. I can say that red is trans fluid, yellow/clear is motor oil, blue or green is coolant, Black/brown is motor mount fluid.

prime311

First off, this is an awesome thread. I have to get my timing belt and water pump replaced soon on my Pilot and I love the extra info here. I had a few questions regarding some of the additional items recommended because the dealership is giving me some odd answers/pricing.

1. Dealer is quoting $215.00 for the Thermostat. Says its in the rear of the vehicle. Maybe he's confusing coolant thermostat with a different one?

2. Dealer is quoting $175.00 for replacing Oil Seals. Said there is extra labor involved due to needing to remove the valve cover. The Cam Shaft seal only he has the part listed at over 50$ but I see the part available online for less then $10.

3. Idler. I didn't ask the dealer about this one, but I saw a technician earlier recommended replacing it when getting this work done. Anyone have some info about what cost should be involved with this?


5. They quoted about $140 for auto tensioner, seems high but not outrageously high.


4. If someone actually has a full parts list of what to replace including any belts, gaskets, etc.. thats worth doing just because you're in there that would be great. What I compiled is this:

Timing Belt
Drive/Accessory belts
Water Pump
Camshaft Oil Seal
Crank Oil Seal?
Coolant Thermostat
Auto Tensioner

Then a couple I'm not sure on:

Idler
Dipstick O-Ring



Thanks a lot for any help, this thread has been great already! I consider myself a mechanically inclined guy, but after looking through the instructions for doing this I think this is one job I wouldn't want to take on.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Thermostat is right above the transmission on the drivers side of the engine block up near the head. It's where the lower hose from the radiator connects to the engine. #5 in the pic and cost $26. If you look at the picture, you literally only remove two bolts and pop the thing off (once the intake and maybe battery are out of the way).



Valve cover definitely doesn't have to be removed to replace oil seals on this motor. They are right behind the cam pulleys and crank pulley. Personally I wouldn't mess with them if they are not already leaking.

As for the idler, just get yourself the Gates brand timing belt kit TCKWP***. It includes the Honda/Koyo idler & tensioner bearing. Includes the Honda/Aisin hydraulic tensioner. Includes the Honda/Gates timing belt. Includes an aftermarket Gates brand water pump. I just installed one of these kits on my 04 and it was perfect. Cost half the price of Honda parts at discount online prices, for the exact same thing (except the water pump). RockAuto.com has the best prices. They also have the best prices on the Gates accessory belts.

Coolant is always $30-40 from Honda.

prime311

Awesome, thanks. I had seen that parts diagram before but couldn't find it when looking again. Not quite sure I'm ready to take on this type of project myself and my wife would not be pleased if I take 'her' truck out of commission for too long. I'm going to talk to the dealer about the thermostat. If I understand it right, they'll be right next to it since they need to drain the coolant anyway and then its just those 2 bolts you mentioned. I'll leave the seals and they said they'll do the tensioner if it doesn't pass physical inspection. My older civic is probably going to need similar work done so I'll probably give it a go on that once it warms up a bit around here. I will be doing the spark plugs and rear differential fluid myself, those look pretty straight forward. Thanks again!

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

You can always buy the kit I mentioned and have them install them. See if you can get a quote for just the labor.

As for the thermostat, it's on the opposite side of the motor from the timing belt. It's still quite easy to change. They shouldn't charge you $215 to change it if they are already replacing the water pump. Draining & filling the coolant removes 2/3 of the work from the thermostat equation. Try not to let them charge you twice for that.

That would be like them charging you book price for replacing a timing belt PLUS book price for replacing a water pump. That is double charging since both jobs require nearly the same amount of tear-down (with the addition of draining & filling coolant for the water pump).

loknar28

Yeah, I just replaced the Timing belt, Water Pump, Thermostat, and all of the front oils seals for my wife's 04 Pilot and the entire cost for parts was only about $280 for All Genuine Honda parts. I probably spent another $30-40 at the local Dealership for Honda Antifreeze and Plastic clips for the fender wells. Also, if your 03 Pilot is anything like the 04; you do not need to take off the valve covers. You do need to invest in good a Pully removal tool though. I got mine online from an earlier link in this thread from Specialtytools.com or something. If you are handy are patient enough to wait for the parts and can set aside two FULL days to do the job. It is certainly worth it.

prime311

Well I got the work done at the dealer now. They did replace the tensioner after a visual inspection found it leaking. All told it was about $800. They still wanted to charge like 200 for the thermostat and I just said forget it since it wasn't worth arguing. I'll do that myself if I need to in the future. Getting ready to do this work on my Civic. What do you guys think of this kit they have on Amazon?

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Personally I would use Gates stuff or Honda.

prime311

Gates for the full Water Pump/Timing/Tensioner kit or just for the Timing Belt/Tensioner kit?


<edit>

Ok scratch that. After doing some more searching I'm going to go with the OEM pump. Quite the lengthy parts replacement list I've got here. Thanks again!

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

I installed the Gates pump and it looked excellent. The impeller is identical to OEM and the belt pulley is even upgraded to stainless steel. The OEM pump is made by Yamada and it's nice too. Price is a lot higher of course since Honda is a middle man and the dealership has to mark it up as well.

The best part is that the kit with the water pump includes the OEM auto tensioner for almost nothing. Those are at least $80 alone.

Honda_Enjineer

I've seen a couple of posts on this thread where a few folks got things misaligned (sorry for the delay in replying, it has been a while since I was online here).

I want to add (repeat?) that the camshafts gears can have a mind of their own due to the pressure of the valve springs - it is easy for the (rear?) one especially to jump out of position while you are fitting the new belt.

The first time that I did this job it happened to me a couple of times as I fiddled to fit the new belt. Luckily I had some marks to use as a guide that I made as follows ->

The best trick that I know to make sure that everything is correctly aligned is to carefully mark a tooth on every pulley wheel with the corresponding groove on the old belt - I used some "white-out" marks that I painted on that were then very easy to see.

Do this before removing the old belt and you can use the old belt as a guide - you must transfer these white marks onto your new belt. Hold them together and count the actual belt teeth!! It is then quite IMPOSSIBLE to incorrectly align camshafts if you carefully stick to these marks as a guide when fitting your new belt.

If you are one tooth out on a single shaft the engine may still start and run but it will lack power and may have other issues - so be careful.

Also, I don't agree with the poster who says you should only replace leaking oil seals. This is not a job that I want to be repeating soon because I was lazy and oil seals do wear out steadily (just like everything else).

Bob

Honda_Enjineer

One more...

Both engines that I did had some excellent condition parts replaced - I mean things like the idler pulley looked to me like they could easily last for multiple belts if you are on a very tight budget.

But the belt itself definitely should be replaced on Honda's schedule (at the absolute minimum).

The consequences of it snapping are quite horrendous for the engine and these belts can look like they are OK right up until they suddenly fall apart and disintegrate. It's not worth the few dollars (belt price) saved vs. the price of a damaged V6 engine rebuild.

The valves can come into contact with the moving pistons if the belt breaks in this engine and your imagination of what can follow should do the rest.

prime311

I know I'm way off topic, but I'm most of the way through doing the major service on my civic now. And by major I mean like everything(Belts, pump, thermo, valve adjust, tune up, etc..). Before I put the cover back on, is there something I should be doing to clean these up? I've seen some seafoam vids, but nothing with the cover off and I'm not sure this is dirty enough to warrant it? Thanks again!

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

LOL That's pretty ugly. Other than running a cleaning oil, there isn't gonna much of anything you can do. You can imagine the entire inside of the engine is this gunky.

Best bet is to run some sort of cleaner. Each one is different so follow instructions carefully. Seafoam is only for short term and you must change the oil after only a few days. It will break down the oil that you put it into.

There is also other additive type products like Auto RX. It's expensive and reviews are mixed. They say you have to run it multiple times over many thousands of miles.

There is also Marvel Mystery Oil that is supposed to clean up sludge. Don't know much about it other than that.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

I have a 15 yr old B18C that is dry as a bone. No seals ever replaced.

I have a 23 yr old CRX Si that only had to have the Cam seal replaced at the 205k mile mark. All else is dry except the oil pan gasket. I'll get around to that one day.

prime311

Hmm, well admittedly I haven't used Seafoam in straight oil before, but in my fuel lines and 2 cycle engines it acts as a stabilizer rather then the reverse. Still probably worth doing though heh, but I guess I'll wait until I'm close to doing another oil change.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Personally I don't care for Seafoam. I ran it through the intake of two different cars and both of them ended up getting check engine lights for primary O2 sensors within a couple months. I have heard of pulling the O2 and dipping the head into Seafoam to clean it off, but I don't know if I would try that one. Personally I would NOT put this stuff into the crank case to clean it out because it's a solvent and really eats up the oil.

I just stick to Chevron Gas and synthetic oil with regular oil changes.

90k mile 03 Element



40k mile 05 TL



Unknown mile 97 JDM ITR

Honda_Enjineer

That's really a bit of an understatement I'd say.

Wouldn't it make far more sense to start a separate thread asking about engine cleaning issues perhaps even in the Civic area? You likely get far more responses than posting this in a Pilot timing belt replacement thread that has been running for ages.

Aside from the fact that it also obfuscates things for people trying to research timing belt replacement.

Bob

tincanart

If you get your honda manual direct from Helm publications they are significantly less than ebay prices. I got a brand new service manual for my 2005 Pilot for $50. They are the way to go if you decide to do the timing belt.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

$59 shipped is pretty good (2003-2004). Price came down because it was $70 just a year ago:

http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result.a...elected_media=

AC25

Oil question?
Which oil to use on a Honda Pilot 2005? With a 3.5L V6 engine (PFI SOHC 24V) 130,000 miles? My mechanic suggested 10W-20 because of the high miles. But the service manual suggested 5W-20. I also used full synthetic oil Mobil 1 old. Should I use 10W-20 only for the summer or all the time considering the high miles? Thank you guys for all you’re suggesting. Alex

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

If your loosing oil between changes, consider a thicker oil. But you want 5w30 not 10w20. I've never even heard of 10w20. Also consider a high mileage oil like Castrol GTX High Mileage 5w30 or Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30.

If your not loosing oil between changes, keep using 5w20. No reason to change otherwise.

ZoneIII

Well, it's finally time to tackle this job. I'm right about at the recommended mileage.

Anyway, I'm getting ready to order the parts for my 2004 Pilot. I'll be doing the full job including the timing belt, water pump, tensioner, seals, thermostat, accessory belts, etc. I almost ordered a kit from Amazon but decided not to because they are not OEM parts. IMO, this is one job where it's false economy to skimp on parts and I rather spend the money and get the best parts. On the other hand, I've been around long enough to know that the the old adage that you get what you pay for is not always true. Here is a link to that kit. If anyone has used it, I would appreciate any comments they have.

http://www.amazon.com/Timing-Belt-Ho...Ahonda%3Apilot


I have two questions before I start:

1) I'm going to order a pulley holder of the type linked below but they sell it in 50mm and 55mm versions. Which size do I need for a 2004 Pilot? To add to the confusion, most of the Amazon reviews for the one listed as 55mm were by people working on CRVs, Civics, etc. but I would think those cars would use the smaller (50mm) version. Maybe Amazon has the product mislabeled (?). I don't want to get started on the job only to find that I have the wrong tool.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000TMLWQ

3) Someone here mentioned that Gates makes some of the parts for Honda. I buy many auto parts from Rock Auto. Rock does have some of these parts made by Gates. Can someone confirm that they would be identical to OEM parts?


Thanks to everyone for contributing to this extremely helpful thread. I do have the factory shop manual but this thread is still very helpful.

rlee

The 50mm pulley tool that you linked is the correct size. It does fit a bit loose on the crankshaft, but that is by design -- as soon as you have it wedged with a 1/2" breaker bar and begin to torque the bolt, it holds well.

I used the Gates kit for my 2003 Odyssey and it is excellent. I believe the OEM belt might be a Gates, but not the water pump. However, the Gates WP has a stainless steel pulley and seems to be very well made. The tensioner and idler pulley are also very high quality.

Unless your seals are leaking, you may want to reconsider replacing them. The passenger side motor mount may need replacing -- it needs to be removed along the way. The main accessory belt was a pain for me -- a LONG handled 19mm box wrench saved the day.