88CRXJ

car: 1988 honda CRX DX w/ poormans type r swap.

problem: starts then IMMEDIATLEY dies

drove it home. went inside for 40 min. came out and it would start but immediatley die. i realized the fuel pump wasnt priming when i turned the key to the "on" position.

tried pumping the gas when starting. doesnt help.

dropped the tank. pulled the fuel pump, hooked it up to the battery and it still works. put the pump back in and wired it to a 50amp switch with a 20amp inline fuse. no the pump works. but the car still wont start.

got a new fuel filter. put that on there. still doesnt work.

got a new main relay. still didnt work.

ANY ideas?

Simkin314

Does it sputter to death or does it just stop running?

When you pumped the gas, did it rev up at all (and still die)?

Before throwing more money at fuel components, you may wish to add a cheap fuel pressure gauge to be sure your in the right ballpark...

1990hondacrx

yes sounds kinda like a ignition switch i think its 60 bucks at the big auto zone try turning the key on till it cranks but dont release it leave the key in the start position but turn it back just a little bit if its the ignition switch it will stay running but u will have to hold the key in the start position almost and it will run i had this happen to me but i didnt drop the tank or go threw any of the trouble u did i start with easy and worked to hard and sence the key is one of the things thats used the most with a dirty key goin in and out all the time 20 years it needs to be replaced

88CRXJ

it doesnt sputter. just dies. and i can get it to rev BARELY. its a weak sauce rev. very weak. but it revs. i know my TB is opening and closing okay. the throttle cable is perfect. there is fuel in the lines.

i was wondering about ignition switch but dont really feel like burning up my starter testing it that way.

1990hondacrx

u dont have to burn the starter up testing it that way what u do is turn the key till the starter starts that way u know where to go back from and once u go back the starter wont run at that point and your not going to burn it up even though cause ur only guna see if its running for a total 0f 30 seconds if it runs that long then u know thats it sence ur only getting it to run for like 2 to 3 seconds mine went out on me Totalyyyy unexpected i was at the mall went to leave gota call as leaving pulled in a parking spot and when i got done talkin 10 mins later it would start and if u stuck to the floor rev to maybe 4 grand and blahhhh after like 2 seconds then remembered to test it this way and it ran with no problems and the starter wasnt running so i drove it the mile like that to autozone replaced it in there parking lot

88CRXJ

so let me get this straight. try turning the key to start, and instead of leting the key fall all the back to the "run" or "on" postion, hold it a little past that. like halfway inbetween. is that what youre sayin? just makin sure im understanding clearly.

88CRXJ

can anybody prove or disprove the theory of the ignition switch? could it be something ridiculous like the injectors are clogged so its only gettin just enough fuel to start but it isnt being injected fast enough to keep it runnig?

Simkin314

I would figure in that situation, there would be sputtering of sorts. It sounds to me like the lines are being primed but more fuel is not being fed into the system.

This can be caused by a variety of things. I would have guessed it to be your main relay, but you already switched that out. Possibly the Fuel pressure regulator (which could be confirmed/denied by a fuel pressure gauge). When no vacuum is produced (engine is off) fuel pressure builds during the prime stage, but when vacuum is evident (engines running) it could be opening the diaphragm too far thereby dropping the fuel pressure to insufficient levels (this is especially possible if you have an adjustable aftermarket version).

I'm having difficulty with this one honestly. How long does it run? This is OBD0 right?

Do your accessories turn on when you turn the ignition to ON (i.e. does your radio turn on?) If your accessories turn ON in the ON position, and your starter turns on in the START position, I'm having trouble coming to the conclusion that your ignition switch is bad. (but I am just throwing ideas in hopes to lead you on the right path).

You may want to check your timing (especially if you have adjustable cam pulleys). Check all your fuses and fusible links as well.

Note: I have not worked on a CRX before, nor an OBD0 vehicle.

Simkin314

This is the relay you replaced right?

88CRXJ

i do not know if it is OBD0. i would assume that it is OBD1 actually. i bought the car needing to rebuild the bottom end. so idk if when they did the motor swap, they changed it out to OBD1. couldnt say for certain. you have some good points here. BTW, i have a vac line hooked directly to the line going to the fuel pressure regulator. when i try to start it up, the needle jumps up and wiggles around like a retard and dies to 0 when the motor shuts off, which is where it should be when the motor is off. ALL accessories turn on when i flip the key to the on position. when i try to start, it runs for a second or even less. startdie. that fast. timing should be fine. no adjustable cam gears. only time it sputters is when i hit the while trying to start. which is understandable.

question. should i hear a CLICK from the relay when it works? or when it doesnt work? when it works, correct?

yep. thats the main relay. the one i replaced. still didnt work with it on there.

88CRXJ

this just in. now when i try to start, it turns over very, very slow. ive noticed it getting slower each time ive tried. probly 25 times. sounds like a dead battery right? all accessories still work, lights are bright as can be. just a slow start now. starter is 1 month old.

crawfo661

if your main relay was bad you would get no fuel what-so-ever, at all, pump would not turn on, you are gettin some fuel, remeber pressure doesn't always equal flow and vise-versa, pump could be faulty

88CRXJ

the pump is hooked to a switch now. i can flip it and let it pump all day until the fuel lines burst. had the pump out of the tank. tested it on the battery. works. i can hear it priming when i flip the switch.

crawfo661

none of this tells you if it is pumping at the proper rates, buy a gauge to test it, or a test gauge jobby at autozone

88CRXJ

i see. youre saying it might be pumping too slow to keep a proper amount of fuel in the motor. it might be lagging in other words.

1990hondacrx

im telling u now get a ignition switch and stop waisting time with it u can buy one from autozone and u can plug it in without installing it and turn the switch wtih a screw driver it just plugs in under the stearing column and fuze box and if its not that and im wrong u can take it back and never have installed it

Simkin314

Yep, that is typical. The gauge on your fuel pressure regulator vacuum line will show vacuum whenever your engine turns over (which creates vacuum within the intake manifold). That just shows that your fuel pressure regulator is getting its 'control signal'.

Yea, that sounds to me like your fuel injectors are opening and still nothing (or not much for that matter) is getting through. This could be the pump or your fuel pressure regulator not building enough fuel pressure.

When you turn the ignition to ACC, both relays inside the main relay actuate to prime the fuel lines. With the key in 'start' mode, the second relay is held in it's own control circuit (which keeps fluid pumping while turning over the engine). There is one last important detail. There is a control circuit within which allows the ecu to cut the pump for control purposes (pins 3 and 8 in the schematic earlier).

Summary1, if relay 1 inside the main relay doesn't work, your engine will get gas with relay 2 while turning the engine over; it just won't maintain the flow stream afterwords. Summary2, The ecu can cut fuel anytime it wants. Summary3, Yes you should hear the clicks with the key in the ON position. Summary4, it seems your not building pressure...still.

1990hondacrx

im just going by what happened with my car and it did the EXACT SAME THING hes having happen to his car that why im positive its a ignition switch and the ignition switch will allow fuel to prime if its going out but after its in the on position after started will go bad and not allow the car to keep running JUST LIKE a car alarm that goes bad will do IGNITION SWITCH is what needs to be tryed hes did everything but that and with a car being pretty much well 20 years old and it being a little piece of copper inside the ignition switch that can corrode replace it it gets dirty and lint and all sorts of garbage in it from ya pockets built up over time and wears it out

Simkin314

I'm not trying to argue or even disagree with you. He just wanted other possibilities so I have given them. There is no certainty in anything until it is tested appropriately. It is not uncommon and extremely plausible that the same symptoms could have different causes.

To the OP, yes it may be possible that it is your ignition switch (or wiring thereof). If, for example, during your forward swing of the ignition switch, everything works appropriately but on the back swing (after starting the engine), the switch fails to reconnect to source power.

It may be wise to check pin 5 on the main relay during the forward and back swing of the ignition switch for +12volts. If you get +12, your ignition switch 'ACC' functions appropriately. Also check pin 4 during your 'start' swing (while turning engine over) to be certain that the 'start' function of your ignition switch is functioning appropriately. This way you can prove/disprove the ignition switch variable. EDIT: it may make it easier if you disable the starter during this test process.

TOTAL List of fuel possibilities to check (including already checked items): ignition switch, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump, ecu, fuses(and the like), main relay, fuel injectors, ...?

88CRXJ

haha. what an argument. well guys. the verdict is....

ignition switch.

$50 part. easy fix. checked it before it was installed with a screwdriver and new right then and there that was the problem.

thanks so much guys. what a hassle for an ignition switch, huh? the contacts were just wore down. atleast one of em.

Simkin314

Good job man. Glad to hear it.

1990hondacrx

ignition switch it is u know gota say it but told ya sooo coulda saved alota headaches days ago if u woulda tried it

1990hondacrx

also glad to hear u got it fixed and running

88CRXJ

yeah you were right but hey dont rub it in. had a bad enough weekend with my girlfriend coming down and no car to take her out. that was bad news. lol

1990hondacrx

lol i hear ya exccept my probs are ususaly something big like blow a motor and put a new one in ina night lol