Vinnanater

Hi everybody, this is my first post. I acquired a 91 CRX DX last fall. Always wanted one of these and was able to find one in very decent shape and totally bone stock. So far, it has been a total blast driving it even with just the stock engine (D15B2 as far as I know), tranny and suspension. It is my daily driver for a 120 mile round trip commute. I have already replaced quite a few worn out/broken parts on the car. Also recently got some new wheels and tires, and they look and ride great. Next was going to be new brakes and suspension. I had been contemplating an engine/tranny swap about a year down the road, but recently the engine starting seeing temperature spikes and I blew the head gasket (the engine was supposedly rebuilt only a few years and has about 60k on it). So my dilemma is either getting the head gasket replaced/head repaired at a local shop for $800 or just biting the bullet and going for an engine/tranny swap. I already tried to replace the gasket, even though the car now runs, it still smokes (white smoke), I am thinking the head is damaged or warped, does anyone have any suggestions? Or is it time to bite the bullet and go for the swap sooner than I expected :/. I am looking at a B18 or a B20 swap, it will depend on what kind of deal I find, If I understand correctly the swap is fairly identical in complexity (or lack of it). Of course with the B18 I have the option for V-Tech but with B20 no V-Tech, I am in Ca, so SMOG compliance and BAR certification are a big consideration.

Marcos Barrios

that is a pretty nice crx man
now you say that you changed the head gasket already?
but just didnt shave the head and now it just smokes ?

for about 60-80 bucks you can have the head shaved at a machine shop
and do the work yourself and save those 800 for better things

like a whopper at burger king for example ^_-

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

Start calling machine shops and ask how much for a resurface and nothing else. $40 and 1 day turn around is what I pay. Any more and you're getting screwed.

You can try calling the Fresno BAR site to see if you can use the b20 block in place of the b18a1. Fresno has allowed b20b blocks to be BAR certified in obd1 vehicles, so as long as you use the obd0 manifold and ecu I don't see why they wouldn't let you use it in the crx. You might need the Integra catalytic converter as well.

Either way you go, spending $800 on a piece of **** d15b2 is a huge waste of money. You could get everything you need minus the cat for the swap at a junkyard for half that.

Coincidentally, these 3 certified vehicles were found in the junkyard.

2x0

Welcome to the site, the car looks fantastic!

Go for the swap. As Chris said above, it will be cheaper/similar cost to swap than to waste more money on the d15. And he also pointed out some good options that will pass smog for you.

LankorDie

Looks like a clean body! Congrats

Vinnanater

Thank you, yes it is a very clean and totally intact car , no rust or major body damage. It supposedly belonged to a lady that used to drive back and forth from LA to San Diego to see her kids. Carfax seems to confirm what the seller told me.

Vinnanater

Thanks, the car is coming along nicely, the head gasket is a minor hiccup, it just accelerates the swap...lol!

Chris, thanks for your feedback, yes I think I will try to fix the head and gasket regardless of the swap, a local shop will check it out and resurface it for $75 or totally rebuild it for $175 . That way I will probably get more money when I sell it.
Good news, I got a call back from the local referee and he said that they are now allowed to give certification for B20B swaps, in order to pass, I would have to use only the B20B long block, everything else (intake, ecu, exhaust, etc) needs to come from a USDM B18B1. That matches what you already said above and showed in the attached pictures.

Now the madness and mayhem starts...lol! I need to acquire the engine, tranny and all the B18B1 stuff that attaches to the engine. This is going to be fun.

One more thing I am wondering if the B20Z will be treated like the B20B by the bar, I forgot to the ask the guy this question. I may call him again and make sure this not an issue. While I am doing the swap, might as well get a B20Z if I can.

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

Did you tell them you have a crx and it is obd0? You should definitely check back before you proceed and make sure because I'm not sure how they feel about mixing different obd series. Can you post the number you called? I have a B20Z2 in my hatch and I need to find out if I can use it or if I'm going to find a way to register out of state.

Vinnanater

I told him the exact year and model of the CRX, I did not think about specifying that it is obd0, the guy seemed to know what I was talking about and also knew about the B20B swaps into cars, he immediately let me know a B20B-vtech would be very problematic if not impossible to approve. He did not hesitate about stating that a B20B bare long block with all the B18B1 parts (intake, exhaust and ecu, etc) is what would be required to make my car legal.

I definitely will be checking back with him (or his office) as I progress with the swap and get ready to buy the parts.

The number I called was 800-622-7733, they will ask you a few questions and then pass your information to a local referee to call you. If you want to talk to the same guy (or at least the same group of referees) I talked to, tell them you are from Bakersfield. You could also ask to talk to Bruce, I am not sure if they allow you to pick who you want to talk to, but it is worth a try.

Let me know if they are okay with the B20Z swaps also and do they allow JDM B20B motors also. I forgot to ask him these two questions. lol

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

If I remember correctly the ref site is at Fresno City College, I may go by and try to talk to them in person. Maybe run the b20vtec by them too, making the argument that the short block would be replacing a b18c instead of a b18b since they are much rarer.

2x0

I'm excited to see this B20 CRX come to life! Will be following for sure.

Check these out in the meantime for some swap basics and parts requirements....

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-crx-ef-civic-1988-1991-3/detailed-b-series-into-crx-ef-civic-parts-list-more-2769325/

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...guide-2931549/

Vinnanater

Let me know what you find out. I left a message for my contact in Bakersfield to call me. I expect he will call tomorrow. I need to clarify if JDM B20Bs and USDM B20Zs are also good to go. I am expecting he will say no problem with those variants, but you never know.

Vinnanater

Thanks, this will definitely help. I called a couple of local salvage yards, the going price for a B20B seems to range from $400-$600. The earlier years are less expensive ones, not sure if this makes any difference to me, since I am going to be using just the bare long block, unless I am missing something. The tranny seems to be as low as $400, but I am quickly learning (been going through the links you sent) that there is a wide range of trannies I can use. Definitely need to do more homework in that area. The goal for the car is a wicked daily driver (but a sleeper), so I need gearing that is a good balance throughout the mid and top end. The B20B is going to help a lot with low end grunt work by itself.

Oh, also made a very cool discovery in my little town of Tehachapi, Ca, there is a local shop that does swaps on imports, tuning, repairs, etc, their main thing is BMWs, however they do Hondas too, I will be paying them a visit, and see if and when I might want to use them.

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

Those you quoted are 3x too high, you must be calling yards that pull them for you which I would never trust. I've seen how some places pull parts.
I get my transmissions from the yard for $75 plus core on half days, engines about $140 plus core. Do it yourself and save money.
The B20B is fine, see the above pics. The B20Z2 (B20Z jdm block) is higher compression and if I'm not mistaken larger bore, I'll have to look into that.

rileybuildsaciv

I just finished swapping a b18 I rebuilt into my hatch. This was my first engine rebuild/swap ever. I do have a few tips if you plan on finishing it on your own.

Try to get a cable transmission. I had trouble finding one, so I ended up getting a ls hydraulic transmission. I went and bought the hush performance hydraulic conversion, and its great, but it does delete your passenger air vent if thats a downside for you. I didn't convert the transmission to cable because I heard it makes the pedal really stiff.

I faced off the power steering pulley on the harmonic balancer so I could pull it out while the engine is still in the car. This is really useful if you forget to put an o-ring back on the oil pump

I used Hasport mounts and their shift linkage and haven't had any problems with axles binding. I'm not running AC on my car, so I made a bracket with my grandpa and used that as a 4th mounting position.

I don't know if you will need different knuckles to run B series axles, but try to find 91 Integra knuckles. They go right in and I didn't have problems with the alignment.

I replaced all the suspension bushings while I was at it and the hardrace bushing kit is great.

Fun fact, take your cable speed sensor from your old D series transmission and it will plug right in and work.

I could keep going on for awhile, but if you're going to pull a motor from a parts car/junkyard get as much as you can. It will save lots of trips.

Caoboy

You just need to make sure you have all the emissions equipment from an obd0 Integra.

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

Right, which is what I said to begin with and he said the ref told him to use B18B1 parts which are obd1. I have an eh2.

Every DA Integra uses a cable B series trans.

Caoboy

Ah, I see.

As long as he keeps the swap compliant with CA emissions in regards to which obd era he goes with, he will be fine.

If anything it'd be advisable to convert to obd1 at the same time, swap in the b20z, take it down to the referee, get certified, then pop out the ecu, upgrade the injectors, intake manifold, header, delete the cat, and get tuned, and really take advantage of having a b20 and not worry about any possible lean conditions

Vinnanater

Every place I have called so far have quoted me higher prices than what you listed above. I am not too far from Fresno, care to share the name of some of the yards where you are getting these deals? I am going to need a B20B/B20Z high compression long block and everything else (intake, exhaust, ecu, etc from a B18B1 car). After reading some of the posts on the B series swaps, I am finding out there are a lot of odds and ends I will need to pick up. I am currently working up a parts list, I will be posting it on here to get some feedback so I can tweak it. Also if anyone on who is reading this thread, if you happen to have some of the parts I will need (and if you want to sell them) please let me know. Thank you!

Vinnanater

1. What year is your hatch? I am assuming your parts list is going to be very similar to what I am going to need, so I am definitely interested in finding out what all parts you had to buy.
2. What if any difference is there between the hydraulic vs the cable transmission. If it is just a matter of pedal pressure, cable type would be fine, I definitely don't want to lose the passenger vent.
3. I don't have power steering, but you make a good point, if the new engine has one, I would want to modify it, can you please post some pics?
4. I am looking at Hasport and Innovative mounts, any compelling reason to go for one company over the other one? I also understand I might have to modify the front cross member or get one from a Hasport/Innovative?
5. I definitely want to run A/C, so if you or anyone has any lessons learned about how to accommodate A/C with the swap, I would like to know.
6. I will add the 91 Integra knuckles to my parts list, any other knuckles work as far as you know?

And you can go on as much as you want, I know next to nothing about Honda swaps, I have been looking through the various posts on this forum but nothing matches the exact combo I am working with. Any info you send my way is greatly appreciated. My swap is going to require relevant information regarding 88-91 CRXs and related B series swaps.

Vinnanater

Right you are, as long as the intake, manifold, ecu, etc are the from same OBDX type, it should be all good, no mix and match is desirable (even if it can be done) from the referee's point of view .

Yes I definitely plan to do some tweaking (maybe even vetch) once the car and the swap is BAR certified.

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

I just started working here http://ipullupull.com in Fresno. This week (through Sunday) all engines are $99 plus core with no access accessories. They have weekly specials https://www.ipullupull.com/caleng/ rotating every week and 60 day CASH back on parts. Before I worked here I bought the B18B1 in my Integra and the B20Z2 in my hatch. Now that I work here I'll probably never have a paycheck. I highly suggest you at least check it out. You can search the inventory online and when I'm off I'll do a visual check to see what's available now.

Vinnanater

I looked up the place, and searched for the CRVs. I see 2 onsite, then I called the place, and got a lady on the phone (Anna I think), she said she could not verify if the vehicles still had the motors in them or any other details about them....lol! I guess I just have to drive down there? Let me know if you can put your eyes on them and what is still there? Thanks much.

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

The one I found in the yard the engine was already gone, I didnt see another. There is one in the back that has a Z2 in it but they are selling it as a whole running car. Not sure how long until they put it out for sale but if nobody buys it they'll put it out in the main yard. I did spy a set of gsr blades I'll be picking up soon. I'll look for the silver one tomorrow.

rileybuildsaciv

Its a 91.

The hydraulic is just more consistent than the cable in my opinion. Its still stiff and the setup will never have a true hydraulic feel to it. The pedal is also slightly too short for a master cylinder anyways. It will also delete the neutral safety switch. I really would have went with a cable LS transmission, but after a year of junkyarding I could never find a manual DA. The only one I found was a few months after I got a hydro transmission. If you were to find a transmission you should rebuild it if that's your thing.

There wouldn't be any room to fit the pulley for the power steering. You won't really need it anyways. As far as having AC installed, I wouldn't know, but I don't think the AC lines would be interfering with the engine.

Your stock crossmember will work.I had to grind away material on it to get the motor to clear the 4th mounting position for the old D series motor. If you need more clearance, use an aftermarket one.

Hasport was recommended to me. Don't know much about innovative, or if there's really any difference between the two. I thought the hasport mounts and shift linkage were nice, and I haven't experienced problems because of their products.

Front knuckles from any SI model, or EX sedan will work with the integra knuckles I believe. They still have small brakes though. Make sure you match your axles with the same year. My setup is using 94-01 axles, including the intermediate shaft. The intermediate shaft MUST be from a manual car, or else it will not line up.

Other parts:
DA integra throttle cable. You may have to modify the cable bracket on the intake if it is from the later model integra.
I had some help with my grandpa fabricating up a few other parts, like this intake hose pictured below.
The exhaust manifold off the b18 motor will fit. You will have to use a test pipe to put your old exhaust back together. My exhaust was clogged, so I bought an HKS exhaust. Its pretty good.
Get an OBD1 ECU. p75-01 for a non vtec motor. I think you need a p73 for a vtec head. Idk.
For wiring you have a few options. You will need to take your old harness and splice on the obd1/obd2 connectors onto it. Then at the ECU plugs you can get a jumper harness for obd0-obd1, or do it all yourself if you're good at that. Or you could go and get a harness from cj's wiring, rywire, or some other company that makes plug and play harnesses. You could be spending about 300$-600$ on that. *not including the ecu*
You will likely have a dpfi intake, so if you DIY the engine harness you will have to convert to DPFI on top of that. One of the dumb things about this engine harness is that some of the engine plugs are on the chassis harness.

If youre going to get a junkyard motor and plan on using it for awhile, take the time to rebuild it. I did most of it on my own. I just had everything hot tanked, head and block surfaced, crank polished. The person who did the head surfacing for me also did all of the headwork (springs, valves, seals) so that made it easier. A motor with an automatic transmission has a better chance of less wear. The guy I bought my motor from there was barely any wear ('00 integra with 200000 miles).

A crate motor from HMO will also work if you plan on not rebuilding. I would have spent the same amount of money if I went this route. It was definitely worth rebuilding a motor for the learning experience.

If you want a VTEC motor. The hood may have some clearance issues.

Make sure you keep patient while doing the build. It took me about a year doing the swap. 8 months gathering parts and rebuilding, 4 months swapping and doing a whole bunch of other replacements on the car to make it new again. I just got it all put back together a few weeks ago and driving again, and it was well worth it.